Top Prospect Fan Poll -- Results on homepage

[Never Outhustled]

As for Cody, looking at his performance at Brevard, I have to give him the nod over Jeffress. It was just dominating.

Do you ever use age in your equation? 4 years from now, when Jeffress is Cody's age, we could pull him from the big league rotation, send him to Brevard County, and see how many no-hitters he throws.

 

You often ignore age and tools, so I would like to ask, what players have you touted in the past have has success that makes you believe in your ranking system?

[colbyjack]

I'm going to let the poll stay open until I get to 50 submissions. I'm at 40 right now, and I'm hoping the holidays caused a few people that I expected to receive submissions from to get their vote in.

 

Thanks to those that have done so so far.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'll toss mine out into the fray, with the disclaimer that I haven't seen any of these guys play, and that by no means do I think I know what I'm talking about:

 

 

1. Mat Gamel

2. Alcides Escobar

3. Jeremy Jeffress

4. Angel Salome

5. Taylor Green

6. Jonathan Lucroy

7. Brett Lawrie

8. Lorenzo Cain

9. Jacob Odorizzi

10. Brent Brewer

11. Evan Fredrickson

12. Caleb Gindl

13. Seth Lintz

14. Cutter Dykstra

15. Cole Gillespie

16. Hernan Iribarren

17. Cody Adams

18. Alex Periard

19. R.J. Seidel

20. Luis Pena

 

 

Just your typical fan blabber, I suppose... Clancy sure sounds like he knows these guys a heckuva lot better than me, and not surprisingly our lists don't look too similar.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I'm a little late, but I submitted mine today.

[sbrylski]

As for Cody, looking at his performance at Brevard, I have to give him the nod over Jeffress. It was just dominating.

Do you ever use age in your equation? 4 years from now, when Jeffress is Cody's age, we could pull him from the big league rotation, send him to Brevard County, and see how many no-hitters he throws.

 

You often ignore age and tools, so I would like to ask, what players have you touted in the past have has success that makes you believe in your ranking system?

Just want to throw my support behind this opinion. There's just no way that Cody is more likely to play in the majors, play in the majors with the Brewers, or play longer or have more success than Jeffress and probably a few other guys. I think Clancy's just ranking them to be different, to totally ignore age is just bad science.

[nate82]

My list. I might be a little bit to high on Lawrie but I believe he is probably the best player in the minors that the Brewers have.

 

1. Mat Gamel 3B/OF/1B - Left handed version of Braun with a little less power.

2. Alcides Escobar SS - Gold Glove SS could be a Jose Reyes, Hanley Ramirez, or just an average to below average offensive SS.

3. Brett Lawrie C/?? - Lawrie's bat could carry him to the MLB club real quick it is just a question of what position he will play.

4. Jeremy Jeffress P - The stuff is there and if he can get his head on straight he could become a #1 or #2 type pitcher.

5. Lorenzo Cain OF - 2010 starting CF for the Brewers.

6. Jonathan Lucroy C - The best catcing prospect in the Brewers organization.

7. Angel Salome C/DH - If the NL had the DH rule I believe Salome would be playing for the Brewers in 2009.

8. Taylor Green

9. Alex Periard

10. Cole Gillespie

11. Zach Braddock

12. Caleb Gindl

13. Jake Odorizzi

14. Brent Brewer

15. Cutter Dykstra OF/2B - I really love Cutter and I believe he could become a good 4th OF or a utility player.

16. Omar Aguilar

17. Efrain Nieves

18. Seth Lintz

19. Logan Schafer

20. R.J. Seidel

[clancyphile]

As for Cody, looking at his performance at Brevard, I have to give him the nod over Jeffress. It was just dominating.

Do you ever use age in your equation? 4 years from now, when Jeffress is Cody's age, we could pull him from the big league rotation, send him to Brevard County, and see how many no-hitters he throws.

 

You often ignore age and tools, so I would like to ask, what players have you touted in the past have has success that makes you believe in your ranking system?

Sometimes, but I also consider the holes on the big-league club. But I can remember toolsy guys who flopped: David Krynzel, for one. And remember all the hype about Mark Rogers and Mike Jones? Injuries derailed `em.

 

I rank Salome pretty high, largely due to his bat.

 

As for Cody, I'll lay it out: The guy did very well, and for a left-hander like him, age is LESS of a factor. See: Moyer, Jamie; John, Tommy. I'd argue any left-hander at high-A at 25 is still a legit prospect. His season deserved some props and a higher placement than 39 on the Power 50.

 

Wright and Welch: They may not be flashy, but so far, they look to be pitchers who can give a team 30+ starts and about 200 innings with maybe a 4.50 ERA. To get that at the type of salary usually paid to rookies is pretty darn good, if you ask me. So, they jump up a bunch of slots.

 

As for Gillespie... yes, Cain is more "toolsy", but the Brewers have a lot of "tools" in the lineup, but where's the OBP? Green and Gillespie have strengths where the Brewers' major-league team is quite weak.

 

And nothing against Escobar, but when your SS and 2B are JJ Hardy and Rickie Weeks... (see the latter for another "toolsy" guy who has yet to put it all together), what do you plan to do with him?

 

The system is deep, and a lot depends on how you want to put the 2010 Brewers together. Is Prince staying, or being traded for pitching? What happens if Salome can't figure out defense behind the plate? Does he get traded, or do the Brewers try him elsewhere (left field, shifting Braun to right and Hart to center)? Where does Gamel play (3B/RF/1B)? Who's on third (Hardy/Green/Gamel)?

 

EDIT: As an aside, on the Power 50, a number of these guys could be anywhere. Lawrie could play catcher, third, left field, right field, first bsse. Green could be at second or third. Gamel (See above). I wouldn't be surprised if to get Salome's bat in the lineup, the Brewers decided to stick him in left, and move Braun to right, paerticularly if Lucroy's bat remains very good.

[PrimeTime955]

Do you still need more entries? If so, I will submit one later tonight.

[colbyjack]

Yes please, I appreciate the late submissions today, but I still need 3 more.

[Tbadder]

Feel free to repeatedly beat on me. But here's my one and a half cents.

 

1) Escobar--I realize the age disparity, but as ready as Robin Yount, nuff said. I like him better than LaPorta

2) Jeffress

3) Lucroy--He seems like he improves everywhere he goes, even if he has minor setbacks; I love that kinda mentality

4) Green--More than anyone else I think we'll be either megadisappointed or megahappy. Can't quite grasp him as an athlete?

5) Cain

6) Gamel--I have him this low because he doesn't have a position, which in the end might make him a part-time professional hitter. If it were my organization I would not be interested in players like this. Of course if it was my organization the Brewers would probably be relegated to the Sally League.

7) Odorizzi

8) Peralta

9) Lawrie--I hate putting him in the top ten as he also has no position. However he is young enough to be moved off catcher, so that he can have a really productive ML career. At third base he'd be my #3 prospect.

10) Dykstra

11) Braddock--Given his health this is probably too high, but who else has this kind of potential?

12) Salome--Don't know why I'm putting him this high. Probably because I don't want to look really, really, stupid. But again, no position. How do you become a major leaguer if you can't play a position?

13) Wooten--I'm guessing that this guy just produces, and I'm guessing a quick move up the ladder.

14) Nieves

15) Lintz

16) Gillespie--Another guy with part-timer written all over him. I'm just gutless so I'll put him in.

17) Gindl--Never have I been so wrong about a prospect like I was about Caleb. He blew me away, and then all of you pointed out that he was drafted from Charlie and Chocolate factory. Lets name all the 5'7" to 5'9" everyday players in Major League Soccer, much less major league baseball.

18) Aguilar

19) Dillard--shockingly good stuff as a reliever, I hope the Brewers commit to him

20) Lasker

[TheCrew07]

My list.

 

1. Escobar - The most under rated prospect on this board, he is much more talented than some think, he'll be a stud.

2. Gamel - He's a stud, if he continues to improve at 3B we'll be golden.

3. Jeffress - Love the potential, this is more of an "I hope" than how satisfied I've been with his career to this point

4. Salome - Please, please, work on blocking and the running game all winter

5. Lucroy - Just keep hitting!

6. Green - I don't care that he's not toolsy, the kid is a player who will be an above average big leaguer, is he a 3B, 2B, or a trade asset.

7. Cain - 5 tool prospect who just keeps getting better, explode next year please Lo

8. Aguilar - Why sign a closer when we have one so close?

9. Lawrie - I think he's going to be absolute stud, hope he's moved to 3B

10. Odorizzi - Like the debut, like the stuff, like the athlete, looking forward to watching him in person next year

11. Gillespie - I like his patience, nothing much else in his game excites me, but I don't doubt he'd be a good 4th OF for someone

12. Gindl - I absolutely love little guys that just get after it, he has a future someplace

13. Periard - I've been on his bandwagon forever, not jumping off now

14. Scarpetta - I really like what he did in short season ball, he's on the short list of pitchers I want to watch in Appleton

15. Anundsen - Just keeps getting results, solid back of the rotation starter

16. Braddock - Sky is the limit, but what about health?

17. Fryer - I'm really intrigued by him as an OF

18. Dykstra - I'm intrigued and if he's a 2B then he belongs here, if he's an OF I'm not so sure.

19. Pena - Love the arm, dislike the BBs

20. Brewer - Love his tools but to me he's a guy that can still go either way, my fear that he'll flop keeps him this low. If makes it, at what position with Hardy/Escobar in front of him.

 

General note, anyone below A ball has to really impress me to make the list and separating out the pitchers was the toughest for me so guys with an established track record like Anundsen got the nod over Lintz, Lasker, Peralta, and so on.

[clancyphile]

Just want to throw my support behind this opinion. There's just no way that Cody is more likely to play in the majors, play in the majors with the Brewers, or play longer or have more success than Jeffress and probably a few other guys. I think Clancy's just ranking them to be different, to totally ignore age is just bad science.

Jamie Moyer has had a longer, more successful career than several highly-touted toolsy Brewers pitchers, including Nick Neugebauer, Cal Eldred, and Jamie Navarro.

 

If Cody is even close to Moyer, he's a steal, even if he's 25 and at high-A.

[trwi7]

If Cody is even close to Moyer, he's a steal, even if he's 25 and at high-A.

What does Jamie Moyer have to do with anything? At 25 years old, Moyer posted a 3.48 ERA over 202 innings in the big leagues. At age 25, Chris Cody was still in High A. Not even close to being similar.

[And That]

For every 100 Jeffress types that make it, 1 Jaime Moyer type make it. Moyer is literally one it at least a thousand.

 

Jeffress has 15-20 MPH on Cody and is eons younger in baseball years. Cody might make it, but unless he gets injured, Jeffress will see big league time.

[Nader Raider Tim]

1. Jeremy Jeffress

2. Mat Gamel

3. Lorenzo Cain

4. Jonathan LuCroy

5. Alcides Escobar

6. Zach Braddock

7. Taylor Green

8. Angel Salome

9. Cole Gillespie

10. Caleb Gindl

11. Brett Lawrie

12. Jake Odorizzi

13. Omar Aguilar

14. Brent Brewer

15. Alex Periard

16. Lee Haydel

17. Wily Peralta

18. Seth Lintz

19. Evan Frederickson

20. Chris Errecart

[biedergb]

If Cody is even close to Moyer, he's a steal, even if he's 25 and at high-A.

What does Jamie Moyer have to do with anything? At 25 years old, Moyer posted a 3.48 ERA over 202 innings in the big leagues. At age 25, Chris Cody was still in High A. Not even close to being similar.

I think this is heading back to the arguement of what is a prospect. If you define a prospect and his worth based upon potential and best case scenario than a guy like Jeffress is oodles better than Cody (or several other examples). If you define a prospect as likely to reach the pros and be successful, then this evens out the playing field and a guy like Cody (lefty pitcher, with good control) is maybe more likely to reach the pros than Jeffress because Cody is older (past his "injury nexus" presumably) and more suited to be a lefty/spot starter/middle reliever. So a guy like Gillespie who looks like a decent 4th outfielder may be rated highly because he is also in AA and had a successful year.

 

Obviously there are a lot of ways to evaluate to prospects, but I took the two extremes. I'm not putting words into clancy's mouth, but I suspect that this is part of his argument, am I close to correct?

[clancyphile]

I think this is heading back to the arguement of what is a prospect. If you define a prospect and his worth based upon potential and best case scenario than a guy like Jeffress is oodles better than Cody (or several other examples). If you define a prospect as likely to reach the pros and be successful, then this evens out the playing field and a guy like Cody (lefty pitcher, with good control) is maybe more likely to reach the pros than Jeffress because Cody is older (past his "injury nexus" presumably) and more suited to be a lefty/spot starter/middle reliever. So a guy like Gillespie who looks like a decent 4th outfielder may be rated highly because he is also in AA and had a successful year.

 

Obviously there are a lot of ways to evaluate to prospects, but I took the two extremes. I'm not putting words into clancy's mouth, but I suspect that this is part of his argument, am I close to correct?

Partially. It's also a matter of team needs, if you will. Gillespie's skills (OBP, base-running, plate discipline), for instance, are in areas where the major league team is relatively weak. It's also why I have Taylor Green at #2 (and almost as the #1 prospect) with Escobar at #7 - third baseis a hole, while the Brewers are just fine at SS and 2B.

 

I will also judge by the numbers someone posts. Cody's were far better than Jeffress's in Brevard County. Jeffress could be a dominating ace if all goes well, he puts it all together, there isn't a relapse of that off-field issue, and there's no injury problem. Cody, on the other hand, has a lower ceiling, but I think the "floor" is a bit higher.

 

To an extent, I also feel a little burned by some of the power arms the Crew has drafted lately that haven't panned out (Neugebauer, Jones, Rogers). If once bitten means twice shy, think of me as being thrice-bitten in this regard.

[colbyjack]

I personally think team needs should have nothing to do with rating prospects, of any kind, at any level.

 

That said, I have really enjoyed looking over all of the P50 submissions that were sent to me. Everyone out there clearly has their favorite players, and everyone also has their own theories as to how some prospects are rated higher vs. others (which was usually potential vs. polish). There was even one name on one list that I had to look up, as I wasn't even familiar with who the player was.

 

I received two more overnight, meaning I only need one more to wrap this up. Of course, I will take more if I receive them, but once I received the 50th submission, even if 51-55 are also in my inbox, this poll will be over, and hopefully I can get it to Brian for him to post on the homepage by early next week. Thanks to everyone that participated.

[colbyjack]

I just received the 50th submission, so I will be closing the polling. If I receive votes by mid-afternoon or so, I will still accept them, otherwise, thank you for your participation.

[pogokat]

clancy...the last guy you touted like this was jeff housman...and next year it will be evan anundsen...cause he's going to kill in Brevard...does that mean these guys are right for the bigs? Not really...just means they were built to get minor leaguers who an't hit off-speed stuff out..

[Scooter1027]

I'll throw my submission into the public fray:

 

1. Mat Gamel

2. Jeremy Jeffress

3. Alcides Escobar

4. Lorezno Cain

5. Jonathan Lucroy

6. Angel Salome

7. Brett Lawrie

8. Cole Gillespie

9. Jake Odorizzi

10. Taylor Green

11. Brad Nelson

12. Caleb Gindl

13. Omar Aguilar

14. Evan Anundsen

15. Tim Dillard

16. Cody Scarpetta

17. Erik Komatsu

18. Zach Braddock

19. Wily Peralta

20. Rob Wooten

 

Really hard to rank this year. I look at other people's lists and it makes me second guess my own. I'm probably too high on Nelson, too low on Periard (not ranked), but just my opinion. I'm really anxious to see what Scarpetta and Peralta do this year...they are two guys I think could make a significant jump.

[twobrewers]

I am starting to think I might have rated Scarpetta the highest (9th)...

 

I'm really surprised by how many lists he was completely omitted from. I spent a whole five minutes on my rankings.

 

1. Gamel

2. Escobar

3. Jeffress

4. Cain

5. Lawrie

6. Green

7. Lucroy

8. Salome

9. Scarpetta

10. Braddock

11. Aguilar

12. Gillespie

13. Peralta

14. Odorizzi

15. Brewer

16. Periard

17. Gindl

18. Zarraga

19. Lintz

20. Pena

[madbad2000]

I'll throw mine out there.

 

1. Gamel

2. Escobar

3. Jeffress

4. Salome

5. Lawrie

6. Lucroy

7. Green

8. Cain

9. Braddock

10. Odorizzi

11. Gillespie

12. Gindl

13. Aguilar

14. Periard

15. Scarpetta

16. Anundsen

17. Dykstra

18. Lintz

19. Frederickson

20. Brewer

[biedergb]

Here's mine

 

1 Escobar, Alcides Best overall tools

2 Gamel, Mat Best pure hitter

3 Cain, Lorenzo Toolsy player with improving peripherals

4 Green, Taylor Great contact hitter, plays key positions (2b,3b)

5 Jeffress, Jeremy Best power pitcher

6 Gillespie, Cole A "Corey Hart"-light type of player

7 Salome, Angel Great offense, we'll see where his defense puts him

8 Lawrie, Brett Highly touted, can't wait to see his professional debut

9 Scarpetta, Cody Great year for a kid with a great arm

10 Lucroy, Jonathan Good offense, great defense at catcher

11 Aguilar, Omar Potential closer with 100-mph fastball

12 Brewer, Brent Toolsy player with age on his side

13 Periard, Alex Good year, and reports of mid 90's fastball

14 Gindl, Caleb Great hitter 2 years as a pro

15 Dykstra, Cutter Another offensive player who plays key positions (cf ?2b)

16 Odorizzi, Jake Good arm, good debut

17 Frederickson, Evan High risk/reward lefty, taken high in draft

18 Mercedes, Roque Phenomenol splits as a reliever, ?closer

19 Braddock, Zach Injuries hurt his otherwise top 10 status

20 Peralta, Wily Great bounce back from injury, with great stuff

[Never Outhustled]

There was even one name on one list that I had to look up, as I wasn't even familiar with who the player was.

OK, who was this? Is he some super sleeper that someone has inside info on?