Cameron for Melky Cabrera? Nick Swisher?

[Mass Haas]

Peter Gammons Blog:

 

Cashman backed off the Mike Cameron deal because Melky Cabrera has improved his plate discipline in winter ball, and there are voices in the organization who still believe Brett Gardner is going to be a useful major league player. No one will argue his energy and intensity, but watch him take batting practice, and you'll find out he's a lot stronger than he looks. Granted, he has to take it into games, but there is something on which to place hope.

[TooLiveBrew]

"Cashman backed off the Mike Cameron deal because Melky Cabrera has improved his plate discipline in winter ball, and there are voices in the organization who still believe Brett Gardner is going to be a useful major league player."

 

http://toolivebrew.u.yuku.com/profile/bypass/images/cry01.gif

 

That face is laughing so hard it's crying. What an absolute joke of a quip from Cashman. As for Gammons... wow. I shouldn't even be surprised at this point with his horrible 'journalism'.

[bklynbrewcrew]

If this doesnt prove what a shill Gammons is for the yankees I dont know what will.

[logan82]

Melky Cabrera has improved his plate discipline in winter ball

 

Wow, that's a really small sample to make a decision on. Good story to save face though.

[TooLiveBrew]

No WAY man! I, like, totally dumped HER! And she's EASY man! That's why I dumped her! She didn't dump me because I'm a loser, nuh UH!

[kramnoj]

I'm curious to learn if the Yankees have any interest in Cameron now after they have signed Teixeira. With Teixeira on the roster, that means he is playing 1B and a spot needs to be cleared for Swisher. This means Swisher is going to the OF, it's just a question if he plays CF or if Damon does. Neither one would probably be a good CF defensively, so I am wondering if the Yankees would want to move Swisher or Nady in a trade so that they can have a good defender in CF. Also, Melky at this point is basically useless to the Yankees.

 

So just for fun let's say the Yankees want Cameron and need to move Melky and one of Swisher or Nady. If you are the Brewers, do you have any interest in Nady or Swisher, and what besides Cameron do you give up? There's no need for the Brewers to get both Melky and one of the other OF, unless they can flip one of the players in a different trade.

[DHonks]

I'd have interest in Swisher for Cameron, as it gives a young slugger with defensive versatility and lefty bat (I think) for Cameron

[princeginterhallhelms04]

If the wanted to trade Melky and either Swisher and Nady then i would take the deal. I think personally it'd be nice to have a little depth in the OF and i have always loved Nady and Swisher and like others have pointed out Swisher would provide that depth at OF and backing up at 1st base for Fielder. The more i think of it i might even do a Swisher for Cammy stright up. Would the Yankees do that?

[Oldcity]

I'd definitely take Swisher for Cameron. I thought of this awhile ago. I'm not sure if the Yankees would do that.

 

I'm sure it would take more than just Cameron to get Nady.

[endaround]

Not sure why you think that. Nady is a solid starter but hardly a worldbeater. He's only under contract for one more season and will likely cost $6-8m or so in arbitration so its not like he's super cheap

[dpapo]

Haudricourt has some interesting information from his latest article, including an update on Cameron to Yankees talks.

 

"The Yankees still have interest in acquiring Brewers centerfielder Mike Cameron after talks broke off in late December. They recently floated the idea of swapping first baseman/outfielder Nick Swisher for Cameron.

Acquired earlier in the winter from the Chicago White Sox, Swisher was targeted to play first base for the Yankees before they signed Teixeira. He has approximately $21 million left on his contract over the next three seasons and is not considered a top-notch centerfielder despite seeing considerable action there last year in Chicago.

Having lost two strikeout pitchers in Sabathia and Sheets, Melvin figures more balls will be put in play off the Brewers' staff this year. Thus, he's inclined to keep Cameron despite his $10 million price tag.

"I'm not motivated to move him," said Melvin, who promised Cameron he would only trade him to a contender. "Having a good defensive centerfielder is valuable."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/37363469.html

 

[sbrylski]

"I'm not motivated to move him," said Melvin, who promised Cameron he would only trade him to a contender.

 

Maybe I'm reading a little to much into the second half of the sentence, but this seems to be a funny contradiction. He's not motivated to move him, yet it appears he discussed a potential move with Cameron already - and not just to the Yankees.

 

Getting Nick Swisher would make this forum go nuts, both over his OBP potential and a debate over defense and defensive metrics. I think DM is playing the Yankees well and if he really is motivated to move him and shed his salary, he'll end up getting what he wants in the end. Is Swisher + the $5 million freed up to spend elsewhere going to improve the team? It'll depend on what we do with the freed up money.

 

But it sounds like Melvin wasn't so adverse to moving Hart to center when these talks originally began. So I think its plausible we work with this. Swisher is definitely the bat we need, just gotta work out the ensuing defensive issues.

 

(Swisher's contract - 09:$5.3M, 10:$6.75M, 11:$9M)

[JohnBriggs12]

Taking on Swisher's contract is pretty risky. As much as he has power and takes walks, he did hit just .219 last season.

[strawbossisevil]

Wow, Swisher would go a long ways in solving a lot of our offensive issues. As far as power production, he is just as good as Cameron, but he walks at a higher rate than Cameron and would fit perfectly in the #2 slot of our lineup. Also he is a switch hitter, which would be a start in addressing the lack of lefty bats in the lineup.

 

Add on top of that, that he would be essentially half price on Cameron, freeing up funds for adding another starter. And that just adds to the intrigue.

 

He would be a step down from Cameron defensively, but when you consider the fact that we only control Cameron for one more year, adding Swisher adds much more long term talent at a very reasonable price.

[nate82]

He would be a step down from Cameron defensively, but when you consider the fact that we only control Cameron for one more year, adding Swisher adds much more long term talent at a very reasonable price.

Lorenzo Cain would be just as good as Swisher would be and he would be cheaper. I would rather keep Cameron this year and then take my chances with Cain in 2010.

[trwi7]

Lorenzo Cain would be just as good as Swisher would be and he would be cheaper. I would rather keep Cameron this year and then take my chances with Cain in 2010.

I'd take Swisher for Cameron. You could always trade Swisher or Hart to fill a need if Cain proves he can play.

[sbrylski]

Lorenzo Cain would be just as good as Swisher would be and he would be cheaper. I would rather keep Cameron this year and then take my chances with Cain in 2010.

 

How do you figure Cain would be better? And I'd assume Swisher would play RF and Hart would slide to CF. If Cain's ready by 2010, either Hart or Swisher would make a good replacement for a traded Prince Fielder at 1B.

[nate82]

How do you figure Cain would be better? And I'd assume Swisher would play RF and Hart would slide to CF. If Cain's ready by 2010, either Hart or Swisher would make a good replacement for a traded Prince Fielder at 1B.

I didn't say better and having Hart in CF wouldn't be a wise choice. Hart was just barely average in RF I don't want to see what Hart would be in CF. No Swisher wouldn't make a good replacement if Fielder would be traded. Defensively no but I'm not sure Swisher's defense woudl be adequate enough to replace the offense lost. 1B isn't a premiere spot where defense is valued very highly. Cain would only cost about 1/4 the price of Swisher also.

[colbyjack]

I agree that Melvin sounds as though he's playing this whole situation with the Yankees really well. He picked the right offseason to play it cool and patiently, as I'm not convinced he's going to head into the season with the team that is currently assembled. You know he wants to add another bat, another arm and some bench help.

 

It kind of sounds as though he may be messing with Cashman after getting dissed by the guy more than once this offseason.

 

I'm torn on Swisher. It's impossible not to like his combination of power and patience, but as noted his defense stinks and I don't like how his BA is as low as it is. He is young enough that would likely cause me to make this deal, moving Hart to CF as noted (something Melvin has considered as others have mentioned), so it's not like that would come completely out of nowhere. Last offseason Melvin noted that the Brewers have never had a player reach 100 BBs, something Swisher has done in his career, plus Swisher would give the organization some depth moving forward should they choose to move Fielder.

 

I could see this turning into something bigger, but it's interesting how the conversations with the Yankees won't go away.

[strawbossisevil]

Sorry nate, I don't buy it. Swisher is a 25 HR guy who is capable of putting up an OBP of .360 or so. While I think a lot of Cain, I think he is a great prospect, I don't think it is fair to expect him to step in and right away put up those kind of numbers.

 

Plus having a number of solid players is not a bad thing, as they can either be traded, or like sbrylski said, he can slide in for Fielder if Fielder gets traded for pitching at some point.

[kramnoj]

I don't see any contradiction in Melvin's statement. He isn't looking to trade Cameron, but he certainly isn't untouchable and would be available for the right mix of helping the Brewers in 2009 and beyond. As far as the promise that Cameron would only be traded to a contender, I think that is fairly obvious. No non-contender would trade for Cameron anyway. I think a Cameron-Swisher trade makes a lot of sense. Cameron is the best CF the Yankees could get and would be a nice defensive boost over their other options. An OF of Braun/Hart/Swisher would be below average defensively but could provide nice offense.

[PeaveyFury]

I'm torn on Swisher. It's impossible not to like his combination of power and patience, but as noted his defense stinks and I don't like how his BA is as low as it is.

 

His 2008 BA brought down the rest of his numbers since he hit only .219. If he can get that back up into the .250s or .260s, he likely gets his OPS back into the .850 range again. Considering that he's 28, the odds are stronger that he'll rebound and that 08 was a fluke.

 

If nothing else, he'd be a heck of a lot better as a return for Cameron than Cabrera, if we're seriously looking to move Cameron for salary relief for a starter.

[MNBrew]

Tons of big "ifs," but after reading this and other threads tonight, I kept on thinking...

 

It just may be sensible to do a Cameron/Swisher deal IF the following things also fell into play (yeah, pipe dreams, I know):

 

- Sheets re-signs in Milwaukee,

- Brewers take on ALL of Swisher's contract because NY takes Suppan, too, &

- Brewers trade Prince for a motherlode of top pitching talent (I keep thinking of a Seattle deal or also the Angels)

- Abreu gets a bit real and comes to MIL at market value

 

OF: Braun, Hart, Abreu

IF: Hall/Lamb, Hardy, Weeks, Swisher

C: Kendall

Bench: OF: Kapler (I'm dreaming) & Gwynn or Nixon; IF: Hall/Lamb & Iribarren (?); C: Rivera

 

Rotation: Sheets, Gallardo, Parra, Bush, McClung

Bullpen: Hoffman, Riske, Villanueva, Stetter, Julio, Coffey, Dillard/DiFelice

Somewhere in there also are some very strong pitchers from the Fielder deal.

 

That roster doesn't suck, to be sure, and is quite capable of winning the division if everyone performs at least reasonably within expectations.

[sbrylski]

I think Braun - Hart - Swisher could be close to average defensively. Braun was close enough to average in his first season out of the infield, and Swisher actually rates very well in RF. Though Hart kind of took a step back out in RF last year, when he did get some innings in CF in 2007 he looked and rates out not too bad. He'd be below average, but I don't think he would be a mess.

 

If you want a silver lining to that defensive lineup, we'd be putting Corey Hart in the spotlight next season. He would have to show he's at least capable in the field and pick it up at the plate - if he doesn't, we have a clearly defined hole for next offseason. Sometimes I think its harder to improve your team when you're average all over rather than having isolated and clearly defined problems.

[strawbossisevil]

Interesting deal MNBrew, unfortunately I don't see the Yankees taking Suppan on top of giving up Swisher. Plus, I think it is in the best interests of the team to keep Fielder for one more season, hopefully see if he can put up a bigger season than last year where he came down to earth a little bit.

 

Next offseason, I would trade Fielder for a solid young pitcher who we can slot in our rotation right away. As far as our prospects, here is how I see things playing out for us. I think Gamel will be up about half way through this next season and will be starting at 3B. I also think that starting in 2010, we'll have Salome, Escobar, and Cain making their way permanently to the majors.

 

Next offseason, we then unload both Fielder and Hardy for pitching. Fielder could almost certainly bring in a solid young #2. Hardy could probably bring in a #2/#3 SP as well. Add to that fact that we have Jeffress who may be ready by the middle of the year, and suddenly our starting pitching is a very, very big strength. Add to the fact, that we would see an upgrade defensively going from Hardy to Escobar, going from Hart to Cain in center, and going from Fielder to Swisher at 1B. Now on top of that, removing the salaries of Fielder and Hardy for pre-arby pitchers, and going from Kendell to pre-arby Salome would free up money to pursue needs in the bullpen, or anywhere else they are needed (possibly 2B).

 

Here would be the rotation and line up then in 2010:

 

1. Gallardo

2. SP from Fielder Trade (#2 type pitcher)

3. Parra

4. SP from Hardy Trade (#2/#3 type pitcher)

5. Suppan/Bush (either trade Bush, or move one to the bullpen)

6. Jeffress (middle to end of the year as an injury replacement - or full time in 2011)

 

1. Weeks (or replacement)

2. Gamel

3. Braun

4. Swisher

5. Hart

6. Cain

7. Salome

8. Escobar

 

The good that I see about this team, especially with the pitching staff is their youth. Aside from Suppan/Bush, all of our pitchers will be high ceiling, pre-arby players. Our rotation could be tops in the division consistently for years to come.

 

The lineup will take some maturing. I don't expect our prospects to come up and rake like Ryan Braun. I don't think they will be black holes either though. Our offense will probably be slightly below average for a season or two, but I would expect it to improve rapidly, probably hitting their stride in 2011. The lineup also will be very affordable, Hart will be in his first year of arby, Braun will be making only 1 million, Weeks may be getting arby in the 4-5 million range, and Swisher will be making only around 6 million. Our starting lineup may actually only make around $20 million total, with our starting rotation making around $26 million or so (most of which would be Dave Bush and Jeff Suppan who both would be in their last years as a Brewer).

 

Our most expensive position player would actually be Bill Hall, who would return to his super sub role, unless we can find a way to trade him. But even with him considered, the total amount of payroll between the offense and the starting pitching comes in at around $55 million.

 

The bullpen would include Riske at 4.5 million, Carlos V at around 1-2 million, and McClung around 2 million or so. Assuming Stetter continues to play well, he'll be our Loogy for the MLB minimum. The pen would probably also include one of Bush or Suppan unless one of them is traded (if they are traded, it would free up quite a bit more money). So for about half of the pen, we would only be paying (Suppan and Bush's numbers are included in the SP numbers above) about 9 million or so. Leaving us with about twenty million to fill in the rest of the pen and or add a free agent (2B?).

 

Edit: As for 2011, I see Green (possibly replacing Weeks), and Lucroy arriving to the bigs. I also think we'll see Lawrie move to 3B and make a rapid accent through the minors. So that when it comes time for Swisher to move on to FA in 2012, Gamel can move over to first where he would be very good defensively, and Lawrie can slide into the 3B spot.