Vent Thread

[hawing]

I think it does the mind well to step back and think with one's head and not on emotion.

Speaking for a moment as a forum participant and not as an administrator, I agree wholeheartedly with the quoted part of JJHardy7's post above.

As if you all couldn't tell from my blue kool-aid avatar, I personally try to stay on the optimistic side of things (actually, I prefer to consider myself "hopeful"). I'll admit that I tend to tire pretty rapidly of gripes and sky-is-falling comments. But not all "negative" posts are like that.

 

RockCoCougars, in his 1992-1993 thread, expresses concern about the 2009 Brewers, as many of us have done recently, but in a way that is thought-provoking and, for me, just a lot more interesting than brief comments like "they're punting for 2009" or "my worst fears are realized." (I'm not looking to call anyone out, just paraphrasing the kind of stuff I've noticed in the last week.)

 

So it's not that there's no room at Brewerfan for negative thoughts. I personally would rather read well-thought-out messages, positive or negative, than anyone's negative splatter on the screen. There are multiple sites on the internet where people can go to just react with a keyboard about the Brewers. I'd prefer (again, speaking as a member) that Brewerfan be different from other sports message boards in that regard. I think other staff feel the same way, and I hope some other members do too.

 

I agree with DougJones43 that the bigger problem may be uber-repetition by a subset of posters, and that should not necessarily preclude having a vent thread. I also appreciate that you realize the difficulty of the balance that staff try to maintain on the site.

[TooLiveBrew]

I guess I compare it to posts of 'game over' in the in-game thread during the first few innings.

 

Agreed wholeheartedly. I think it's fine for people to feel & express concern about the team, but you said it well to focus on objectivity & not emotions. There's a balance to be struck there, but that falls on the individual posters. I really don't think this offseason's Chicken Little comments are really any different from last offseason's... I just think there are more of them (due to more active posters in general).

 

 

RockCoCougars, in his 1992-1993 thread, expresses concern about the 2009 Brewers, as many of us have done recently, but in a way that is thought-provoking and, for me, just a lot more interesting than brief comments like "they're punting for 2009" or "my worst fears are realized."

 

It's a prime example of how there's no inherent mutual exclusivity in this discussion. It's too bad that there isn't more levity in general like there is in RockCo's thread/post. I have a hard time understanding why people can't take a step back & keep things in perspective, but I'm sure part of the general negativity is the loss of Sabathia.

 

It's hard to remember that he was just a part of the team accomplishment last year since he was so dang good. I mean, honestly, is CC ever going to pitch that well for a full half-season again in his career? He may well do it, but his 2008 second-half was good enough that he might not. There's a lot of uncertainty with the pitching right now, so I guess a lot of/a vocal few people can't see the forest for the trees.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

but you said it well to focus on objectivity & not emotions

Last time I checked the name of this site was brewerFAN.net with the "FAN" part emphasized. Since fan is short for fanatic, I find that statement in paradox. Fanatics usually aren't objective. Heck, we're all bias in some way towards the Brewers. It is good to focus on objectivity, but trying to enforce it throughout the site by eliminating the vent thread is exactly what FTJ is referrring to:

 

"Missing the Mark."

[Brian the Automator]

Last time I checked the name of this site was brewerFAN.net with the "FAN" part emphasized. Since fan is short for fanatic, I find that statement in paradox. Fanatics usually aren't objective. Heck, we're all bias in some way towards the Brewers. It is good to focus on objectivity, but trying to enforce it throughout the site by eliminating the vent thread is exactly what FTJ is referrring to:

 

"Missing the Mark."

Brewerfanswhodontpostkneejerkreactionsbutwritewellthoughtoutposts.net didn't fit on a t-shirt.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Brewerfanswhodontpostkneejerkreactionsbutwritewellthoughtoutposts.net didn't fit on a t-shirt.

Point taken, but what I'm trying to say is we're all fans here and with that comes emotion. When I go to work everyday I have to think objectively and be intelligent. It's nice to have a break from that sometimes. The vent thread is a great place for that especially after a gut wrenching loss.

[And That]

There are very many places on the internet to engage in highly subjective, semi-rational biased baseball conversation.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Yes but the context of this thread is the Vent Thread. It's ok to enforce your "Graduate School" mentality on the rest of the site, but having one thread to vent I don't think is a burden, but that is just my opinion. I'm done now.

[pitchleague]

Point taken, but what I'm trying to say is we're all fans here and with that comes emotion. When I go to work everyday I have to think objectively and be intelligent. It's nice to have a break from that sometimes. The vent thread is a great place for that especially after a gut wrenching loss.

Although this is true (to a point) about taking a break from being intellectual, you make the comment about a vent thread after a gut wrenching loss. Well, there haven't been any losses (or wins) in about 2 months now. I don't understand the need to post one or two line vents about things happening in the off-season, not even counting a whole separate thread to vent during the off-season.

 

A vent thread during the season when games are actually being played? Okay, I can understand the need for it. In the middle of December? I don't run the show here but I would vote no.

[Fatter than Joey]

Brewerfanswhodontpostkneejerkreactionsbutwritewellthoughtoutposts.net didn't fit on a t-shirt.

 

This is reactionary.

 

There are very many places on the internet to engage in highly subjective, semi-rational biased baseball conversation.

 

Including this site. -- This site is cleaner and more articulate, but ultimately subjective and semi-rational.

[And That]

Including this site.

 

True, although I would argue Brewerfan is one of the more objective (if still also quite subjective) and rational (to some degree) baseball forums on the internet. There are very many sites that are quite more subjective and quite more irrational.

 

However, the poster stated a desire to "take a break" from objectivity and intelligence - that's not really what this site is for. Brewefancollegehumor.net didn't fit on a t-shirt either.

 

I am personally ambivalent about the future existence of the vent thread, and only really for it to keep as many "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" posts (especially by people whose venty posts are repetitive) out of the other threads as possible. It's not pessimism or negativity that bothers me, it's poorly/unthoughtfully made pessimism, negativity, optimism, exuberance, etc. Or just arguing for argument's sake. I don't think we're the Taj Mahal of intelligent baseball discussion or anything, but I think it is ok to strive to want to be a little more intelligent, a little more objective, to understand the game a little bit more. And I think the venty type posts detract from that - it's passion without the thought. I do think it is very possible for passion and thought to coexist relatively easily.

 

And FWIW, I would have closed the vent thread in question because it was labeled "Official Vent Thread" or something similar. I don't brew my own beer, go to Miller Park, stand outside and serve my beer as the "Official Beer of Miller Park" because I'm not in a position to make that decision (or brew beer very well). If something needs to be labeled "Official" a mod will take care of it.

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't think we're the Taj Mahal of intelligent baseball discussion or anything, but I think it is ok to strive to want to be a little more intelligent, a little more objective, to understand the game a little bit more.

 

Agreed.

 

And FWIW, I would have closed the vent thread in question because it was labeled "Official Vent Thread" or something similar.

 

This is a great point.

 

I am personally ambivalent about the future existence of the vent thread, and only really for it to keep as many "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" posts (especially by people whose venty posts are repetitive) out of the other threads as possible.

 

I rarely need to "vent" -- however I must admit, that there were some pretty funny posts in the vent thread that made me chuckle after the Brewers were sucking it up.

 

I think the vent thread did a lot more than let people blow off steam, and there were a lot (if not the majority) of well-written and creative posts in that thread.

 

Good posters rarely make bad posts, and bad posters rarely make good posts -- regardless of the thread's title.

[Brian the Automator]

I rarely need to "vent" -- however I must admit, that there were some pretty funny posts in the vent thread that made me chuckle after the Brewers were sucking it up.

 

I think the vent thread did a lot more than let people blow off steam, and there were a lot (if not the majority) of well-written and creative posts in that thread.

 

Good posters rarely make bad posts, and bad posters rarely make good posts -- regardless of the thread's title.

To me, personally, if it was a thread where people truly just vented with things like "ARGHH!!!#~#~~#~" and "I WISH I WERE DEAD", I wouldn't have a problem with it. If it were just over-the-top garbage posts, it almost wouldn't be a big deal. Part of the problem was that a fair number of bitter arguments broke out in there, because people used it as sort of a "shelter" where they could post opinions with the knowledge that they wouldn't have to back anything up. It's sort of hard to explain, but does that make sense?

[Fatter than Joey]

Yeah -- Fair enough. That's a good angle as well.

[strawbossisevil]

I can't believe I am actually going to defend the vent thread.

 

As some of you know, I can be one of the more glass full posters. This offseason has been especially frustrating because the repetitive vents which normally would have gone in the vent thread have gone into pretty much every otherwise well thought out thread.

 

Having those posts going into the vent thread allowed me to ignore them. Now without the vent thread, the poor thought out vents are spreading over the whole site, and that's frustrating.

 

I think the presence of the vent thread actually made the rest of the site better and more readable, but that's just my opinion. But this is your site, and you are entitled to make the decisions you want. I just thought I'd add my $.05.

[logan82]

I also didn't like the "safe haven" aspect of the vent thread. I thought there was a lot of venting in most of the threads for much of the season so I didn't think that the vent thread was much help in that respect.

[TooLiveBrew]

Part of the problem was that a fair number of bitter arguments broke out in there, because people used it as sort of a "shelter" where they could post opinions with the knowledge that they wouldn't have to back anything up. It's sort of hard to explain, but does that make sense?

 

That's better than I could have said it... not that that should be surprising.

[homer]

I never understood people that would go in the vent thread to dispute a vent. Why even go in there if you aren't venting? To me, those are the posts that should have been deleted.

[DougJones43]

I never understood people that would go in the vent thread to dispute a vent. Why even go in there if you aren't venting? To me, those are the posts that should have been deleted.

Yeah, there seem to be some people whose main objective is to seek out flawed posts, and tell that poster how/why they are wrong. I don't think they could help themselves from disputing vent thread posts, even though there were numerous reminders from mods to just let vents be vents.

 

 

people used it as sort of a "shelter" where they could post opinions with the knowledge that they wouldn't have to back anything up.

I guess I really don't see the big problem with having one thread where people don't need to write a dissertation to defend why they're soured on a player, or the offense seemingly struggling with RISP. I enjoyed being able to gripe about Rickie's crappy defense after botching two routine double play balls in a game, without having somebody tell me my opinion is wrong because (insert obscure new defensive metric) shows he's actually "just below average, not awful" or whatever...

[strawbossisevil]

I get what Brian and others mean about people having indefensible posts. If people want to do that go to ESPN or the Brewers webpage. The problem in my mind is when people begin to make such posts anyway because a vent thread isn't present. At least if there is a vent thread they hopefully get funneled into one place.

 

Also, I could be wrong, but isn't the whole point of a fan forum supposed to be discussion? To just post things and not expect discussion seems to be counter productive to what a fan forum is all about. That's why I never understood the type that posted in said vent thread. If people aren't here for discussion what's the point?

 

I could personally do without the vent thread, I just hope that the illogical vents don't end up taking over other perfectly fine threads, as has happened recently this offseason.

[JJHardy7]

I also didn't like the "safe haven" aspect of the vent thread. I thought there was a lot of venting in most of the threads for much of the season so I didn't think that the vent thread was much help in that respect.

 

I agree to a certain extent. I just enjoyed reading less vents since there was a vent thread that if I chose to go there I could read them. There simply would be fewer vents in other threads, which IMO kept the other threads easier to read.

[Invader3K]

"Yeah, there seem to be some people whose main objective is to seek out flawed posts, and tell that poster how/why they are wrong."

 

That's not really limited to vent threads on this forum, though.

 

(Although I realize I am doing the same to your post, unintentionally).