HOF vet committee - Gordon in, Torre, Hodges, Santo OUT

[BCZF]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3754618

 

I'm sure this will raise the ire of some folks..

[splitterpfj]

I nearly did a Hall of Fame Trial on Gordon, I did not, because he played so long ago.

 

This is a very interesting selection, Gordon was an excellent player, who's career was interrupted by the war. Gordon had huge power for a second baseman of his era.

 

I don't think Mr Gordon was a slam dunk for the Hall of Fame, but I won't argue against his election either.

[JohnBriggs12]

Gordon did have pretty good power for a righthanded hitter in Yankee stadium. Judging from his impressive RBI totals, my guess is he hit behind DiMaggio and had a lot of opportunities. The 2 years he missed during the war were right in his prime. No doubt his career numbers would be more impressive otherwise.

 

As for Santo missing again, well it would have been ironic on the same day as the Tribune filed bankruptcy, but I will contend that Santo needed to have been near the top of his game for 2 more seasons than he was. That old Cub was done at age 34 when he hit just .221 in part time duty with the White Sox. Even in those days, true HOF'ers were guys who played into their late 30's.

 

In my mind, Santo never reached the level of stardom of a Mathews who's career he overlapped. Eddie was the standard for excellence at the position in those days. Santo was on the level of Ken Boyer who also has never gotten in. There's no way Santo should get in if Boyer isn't in.

[nate82]

I know Joe Torre will make it in as a manager into the Hall of Fame but does his career warrant him to be in as a player also?

[joepepsi]

The only other 2B who was in his prime during Gordon's era was HOF'er Bobby Doerr. Their number are eerily similar. Gordon deserve recognition. So does Santo. so does Ken Boyer for that matter, but that's for another day.

[JohnBriggs12]

I know Joe Torre will make it in as a manager into the Hall of Fame but does his career warrant him to be in as a player also?

 

Torre was a heck of a player and an athlete. He was so good offensively early in his career that on days he didn't catch for the Braves, they would play him at 1B to keep his bat in the lineup. Eventually, he proved to be a decent 3B.

 

Ironically, it's his versatility that may keep him out as a player. Had he stayed strictly a catcher and put up numbers then he'd have been one of the all time great catchers. Still, I think he belongs in. For a guy that didn't run all that well to hit nearly .300 for his career is quite impressive.

[Fatter than Joey]

I know Joe Torre will make it in as a manager into the Hall of Fame but does his career warrant him to be in as a player also?

 

I think they can consider both his career as a player and manager -- I suspect he will get in at some point.

[JohnBriggs12]

The only other 2B who was in his prime during Gordon's era was HOF'er Bobby Doerr. Their number are eerily similar. Gordon deserve recognition. So does Santo. so does Ken Boyer for that matter, but that's for another day.

Gordon's prime did overlap with the last several fine years of Charlie Gehringer. Frankly neither Gordon, nor Bobby Doerr for that matter, were any near in the class of Gehringer who might be one of the most underappreciated great players of all time. Nobody talks about Gehringer but he was right there with the all time greats of his day like Gehrig etc.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Santo put up HOF caliber numbers during the prime of his career for a third baseman - the problem is his career didn't last long enough IMO to be a hall of famer.

 

I also don't think he helped his case too much in the eyes of the veterans' committee by being an arrogant clown when he played, and I have no remorse for a guy who pimps himself to achieve financial gain with documentaries targeting the pity of others. It should be a great enough story that a guy with his health issues was able to play baseball at an all-star caliber level, and that he's had such a long career around baseball. Last I checked the Hall of Fame isn't the hall of really good, even if the really good currently are disabled.

[joepepsi]

The only other 2B who was in his prime during Gordon's era was HOF'er Bobby Doerr. Their number are eerily similar. Gordon deserve recognition. So does Santo. so does Ken Boyer for that matter, but that's for another day.

Gordon's prime did overlap with the last several fine years of Charlie Gehringer. Frankly neither Gordon, nor Bobby Doerr for that matter, were any near in the class of Gehringer who might be one of the most underappreciated great players of all time. Nobody talks about Gehringer but he was right there with the all time greats of his day like Gehrig etc.

Gehringer made his major league debut in 1926 and was an everyday player by '28. Gordon didn't appear until 1938. But you are right, Gehringer did turn in 3 very seasons from 38-40, then played parts of the next two years, though he was really done after 1940. I agree he was an underappreciated player. 1186 walks in 19 seasons and only 382 Ks! .320/.404/.480 Nice work from a 2B. 2800+ hits, 1400+ riibbies, 20th all time in doubles.

[RU Rah Rah]

I know Joe Torre will make it in as a manager into the Hall of Fame but does his career warrant him to be in as a player also?

 

I think they can consider both his career as a player and manager -- I suspect he will get in at some point.

Yeah, it will be a de facto package deal, somewhere down the road.

 

(Dude hit .363 in 1971 and ran away with the NL MVP. But career BA of .297 just isn't going to get it done unless you've got 500+ HR.)