Other possible retirements this off-season

[Invader3K]

With the discussions about Mussina and Maddux retiring, I thought this could be worth discussing in another thread. It kind of seems like we are in the middle of a "passing of an era" in baseball. This could be a big off-season as far as retirements go. Among the big names who could be hanging it up are Ken Griffey Jr, Frank Thomas, Jeff Kent, and Nomar Garciaparra. Jim Edmonds, Moises Alou, and Garret Anderson are some other players that could be calling it quits. Jerry Crasnick of ESPN wrote an article about this a couple weeks ago: http://sports.espn.go.com...crasnick_jerry&id=3712297

[nate82]

Are Ken Griffey Jr. and Frank Thomas Hall of Fame bound? During the 90's you would have had to say yes to both Thomas and Griffey. Both were among the top feared hitters in the league with both being able to hit for power and average. I would say that if Griffey and Thomas both wouldn't have gotten injured in their careers they would be absolute locks.

 

Lets look at career stats for both Thomas and Griffey. For Thomas a career .301 AVG, 521 HR's, and 1704 RBI's. Thomas ranks 21st in both Home Runs and RBI's all time. For Griffey a career .288 AVG, 611 HR's, and 1772 RBI's. I believe Griffey will be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer if he retires now but will Thomas be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer? Thomas has the stats to be in the Hall of Fame and so does Griffey to me they are no doubters to go into the Hall of Fame. In the 90's when you have the juicing age you have two players in Griffey and Thomas who have not been connected to steroids in that era.

[JohnBriggs12]

nate82,

 

Both Griffey and Thomas are still absolute locks.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

I think people dock Griffey for his injuries and that, had he not had them, he would have likely been the greatest offensive talent baseball has ever seen.

 

Even with the injuries and the lost time, the guy is still an absolute lock...

[mothershipconnection]

I'm not as certain about Thomas, but Griffey's in for sure. I'd vote for Thomas, and think he'll make it, but he may need to get past playing lots of DH, being under 2,500 hits, and the fact that 600 homers seems to be the new 500, and he didn't make it.

[Invader3K]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/a...ey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

 

Jeff Kent officially announced his retirement today after 17 seasons. All time 2B home run leader. I think he'll get into the Hall eventually.

[JohnBriggs12]

Thomas is a HOF lock. Forget he's under 2,500 hits (barely). He's got 1,704 RBI to go with the 521 HR. Nobody with those totals not tained with juicing has not made it. Not only that he had back to back MVP's and would have had a 3rd but was beat out by and admitted juicer.

 

He's also got a career BA over .300, a career OBP of .419 and a career SP of .555. Griffey and Thomas were the most feared hitters in the AL in the 90's and nobody else was close.

 

Plus no hint of juicing as he was big when he came into the league.

[homer]

As much as I hate Kent I think he's a lock too.

[nate82]

What about Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez? If he retires today would he be a hall of famer? Rodriguez's career line.

	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Total	2267	8645	1253	2605	524	48	295	1217	469	1288	124	59	.301	.339	.475	.814

Rodriguez has to be one of the best catchers since Bench when you compare his defense and his offense to other players at his position. There are not that many catchers out there that have done what Rodriguez has done in his career. Offensively it is less than Piazza in home runs but Pudge has a better average than Piazza and a better OBP I believe.

 

If Rodriguez, Thomas, and Griffey all retire at the same time that is going to be one of the best Hall of Fame inductees in a long time. Not to mention when you think of the 90's Griffey and Thomas are the two main players that come to mind but you can't forget about Pudge who was probably the best catcher in terms of offense and defense in the 90's and even into the early 2000's.

[dlk9s]

Are Ken Griffey Jr. and Frank Thomas Hall of Fame bound?

If they aren't, the building should just be burned down to put an end to the idiocy.

[craigharmann]

What about Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez?

To me, he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame, just because of his nickname. The original catcher with the nickname of Pudge is Carlton Fisk. A little originality, please! That's something that has always bugged me. Based on his statistics, yes, he should be in the Hall of Fame.

[TooLiveBrew]

Plus no hint of juicing as he was big when he came into the league.

 

First, he got the same 'fat head' syndrome Bonds did -- the logic is that, since he was already 6'5" & big that he couldn't possibly have used PEDs? Second, the sooner people stop trying to find "the juicers" & the "non-juicers", the better off things will be... especially the HoF debates. 'They all juiced' is a far better way to approach things. Thomas imo should be first-ballot.

 

 

As much as I hate Kent I think he's a lock too.

 

Agreed. He can go in the Big Stinky Jerk HoF, too.

[chansen]

Ray Durham

[RightFieldCoder]

Did Ivan come up with the nickname, or did teammates and/or announcers? Unless he came out and started the "Pudge" name, I can't hold it against him.

 

Kent, Griffey, Rodriguez, and Thomas are all sure HOFs. They might not all make first ballot, but you can't leave them out. And they all retired with Maddox and Mussina. Some might skip over them just because of the other names on the ballot but will come back to them in later years.

[craigharmann]

Kent, Griffey, Rodriguez, and Thomas are all sure HOFs. They might not all make first ballot, but you can't leave them out.

I'd say Griffey and Maddux are first ballot HOFs. But that's my non-writer based opinion.

[RyDogg66]

The ballot for 2013 is going to be loaded. It already will feature Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina and now Jeff Kent. Add the possibility of Griffey and Frank Thomas and you could be looking at 5 guys, really 4 minimum going in on the first ballot.

[Invader3K]

Looking like Griffey will be back with the Mariners, or possibly the Braves, according to recent reports on MLB Trade Rumors.

[Sundown Kid]

"The ballot for 2013 is going to be loaded"

 

It will actually be the ballot for 2014. A player must be retired for five seasons (09, 10, 11, 12, 13) before HOF consideration.

[Ennder]

I'm still hoping Maddux goes in with a 100% vote, I can't imagine anyone coming up with a case that he doesn't deserve to be in.

[MessiahRp]

Kent, Griffey, Rodriguez, and Thomas are all sure HOFs. They might not all make first ballot, but you can't leave them out.

I'm not entirely sure about Pudge. Canseco named him when he named Raffy and the other Texas guys as guys he introduced to steroids. Pudge has denied it but let's face it Canseco has been 100% correct so far on his accusations. Remember he fingered A-Rod when the media tried to protect him from Canseco's allegations by attacking Canseco's credibility. Whether you like the reasons for his outing of guys or not the fact remains he's been right about all of them and Pudge was one of the guys Canseco mentioned specifically.

 

If that gets more play before the HOF vote I don't think Pudge's numbers are fantastic enough to withstand a steroid scandal.

 

Rp

[logan82]

I'm still hoping Maddux goes in with a 100% vote, I can't imagine anyone coming up with a case that he doesn't deserve to be in.

It only takes one idiot that believes nobody should go in on the first ballot, forgets who is eligible, forgets to fill out their ballot, or doens't fill out their ballot in some form of protest.

[BrewersSuperCollector]

I'm still hoping Maddux goes in with a 100% vote, I can't imagine anyone coming up with a case that he doesn't deserve to be in.

It only takes one idiot that believes nobody should go in on the first ballot, forgets who is eligible, forgets to fill out their ballot, or doens't fill out their ballot in some form of protest.

 

Maddux won't get 100%, because of the unwritten "Dimaggio Rule".

[Invader3K]

Yeah, if Rickey Henderson can't get 100%, Maddux won't either.

 

Slightly OT: I wonder if the next Basketball Hall of Fame vote is going to give Michael Jordan a 100% vote (I have no idea how that one works, though).

[Tbadder]

Griffey and Thomas are HOF locks. Too bad Thomas didn't play a HOF position. I wonder what his numbers would've looked like without the huge assist.

[DuWayne Steurer]

If someone's justification for not voting for Maddux is that "nobody should get 100%" then that person should be stripped of their voting priviledge. That's the stupidest criteria I've ever heard.

 

And I know, it does happen.