Giants have asked about Hardy

[splitterpfj]

According to this, the Giants have asked about JJ Hardy, but the Brewers have turned them down.

 

link

[trwi7]

I'm guessing they offered Sanchez and that's when Melvin came out and said a team has offered "a fifth starter" for Hardy.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I would love to know if it was no or would you do Cain?

[BrewCrewForever]

If they want to ask about Hardy, I would start by asking them about Matt Cain. I would go now lower then Matt Cain.

[twobrewers]

Can I nominate Matt Cain as the new Kelly Shoppach?

[Point Beer Is Best]

It didn't take long for the Giants to move on as they are on the verge of signing Renteria at long-last: Link

[piccione88]

It is good to see that Brian Sabean is done overpaying players just past their peaks. I actually liked the idea of a Hardy- Sanchez swap for a while now. I probably over value Sanchez a little because of his potential. A deal of Hardy, and Nelson for Sanchez, Brian Wilson, and a decent prospect could have had a huge impact on the ballclub if the deal was made.

 

[ILuvDaBush]

Sabean probably thought JJ's age diminished his value. He doesn't have the experience of a Vizquel or Alou or Renteria.

[TooLiveBrew]

Not sure if this is the best place for it or not, but I'm here so yeah...

 

Chone Smith (of the Chone projections) has ranked Hardy as the best SS of 2008 by his metric called TotalZone. Below are the criteria he uses for the stat:

 

"I find how many plays each shortstop makes on groundballs. If he fields a groundball, and an out is recorded on the play, it counts, regardless of whether it's a throw to first, flip to second, or the SS steps on 2B himslef. Next, how many hits and errors did the shortstop allow? Errors are easy enough. Hits are charged to the shortstop if it's an infield hit to short, a groundball single to left, or to center. Shortstops are charged with 39% of singles to left, and 55% of those to center. Next, combine the hits and outs for each SS into a zone, or, a TotalZone, and compare this to league average. Not all opportunities are created equal however, so I break down this data into buckets, depending on what side of the plate the batter hits from (pulled balls are easier to convert into outs) and whether or not 1st base is occupied, as a potential forceplay at 2nd affects positioning. We are comparing each bucket to the league average for each situation. Finally, a park adjustment is applied. To improve sample size, I use one park adjustment for all infield positions.

I can't, and won't, claim that TotalZone data is as detailed as UZR, plus/minus, or PMR. It does not distinguish between easy and hard plays. What it simply means, is that a player with a very good rating has fewer hits and makes more outs than normal for the portion of balls hit into his area, and a poor TZ fielder has more hits and fewer outs in his area."

 

 

And here are the top & bottom rankings that he divined:

 

Best SS:
+19, JJ Hardy
+12, Jack Wilson
+12, Marco Scutaro
+11, Yunel Escobar
+9, Cesar Izturis
+9, Cristian Guzman
+9, Michael Young
+6, Jimmy Rollins

Bottom SS:
-7, Ryan Theriot
-8, Jason Bartlett
-9, Brendan Harris
-9, Yuni Betencourt

 

While defensive rankings can vary quite a bit from year to year, I found it interesting that a metric rated J.J. so well for 2008. I'd personally describe him as above-average overall (but very consistent) with the leather.

[trwi7]

I found it interesting that a metric rated J.J. so well for 2008.

Plus/minus had him rated at +19. Third in the majors behind Yunel Escobar (+21) and Jimmy Rollins (+23). He was middle of the pack to slightly below in RZR but he was first in out of zone plays on The Hardball Times with 72.

[endaround]

PMR had him at the top everyday guy in the NL.

[BrewCrewForever]

Can I nominate Matt Cain as the new Kelly Shoppach?

I have to be honest, I don't get this?

[Invader3K]

Can I nominate Matt Cain as the new Kelly Shoppach?

I have to be honest, I don't get this?

 

He's the guy constantly brought up in threads as someone we should trade for. Though I think trading for Cain makes a lot more sense than Shoppach ever did, personally.

[Oldcity]

I like Cain but he wouldn't be as good outside of that park.

[BADGERJOBOB]

It is good to see that Brian Sabean is done overpaying players just past their peaks. I actually liked the idea of a Hardy- Sanchez swap for a while now. I probably over value Sanchez a little because of his potential. A deal of Hardy, and Nelson for Sanchez, Brian Wilson, and a decent prospect could have had a huge impact on the ballclub if the deal was made.

 

 

Reportedly the Marlins are offering Cantu for Sanchez. What kind of upside does Sanchez have? Would it be benefical for the Brewers and Giants if there was a Hall for Sanchez trade?

 

I would not trade JJ for Cain straight up. I don't want to give up a potentially very good third basemen in JJ for an average fly ball pitcher. The key being signing JJ to an affordable long term contract. JJ has a very good glove, very good arm and decent enough power to solve our third base problem for a long long time.

[Crewin06]

It is good to see that Brian Sabean is done overpaying players just past their peaks. I actually liked the idea of a Hardy- Sanchez swap for a while now. I probably over value Sanchez a little because of his potential. A deal of Hardy, and Nelson for Sanchez, Brian Wilson, and a decent prospect could have had a huge impact on the ballclub if the deal was made.

 

 

I just can't see all the fuss over Sanchez. he is a 26 year old that had a 5 ERA last season and a 1.45 WHIP. I can't see giving up JJ for that and a 27 year old middle reliever with an equally questionable ERA and WHIP. The only way I would do the deal is if the decent prospect was Madison Bumgarner. Then I would easily do the deal.

[StearnsFTW]

Would it be benefical for the Brewers and Giants if there was a Hall for Sanchez trade?

 

It would definitely benefit the Brewers.

 

Hall has negative value.

[RyDogg66]

I dont know, I also heard the Giants are considering trading for Fernando Tatis for Sanchez.

 

/blue font.

[RockCoCougars]

I just can't see all the fuss over Sanchez. he is a 26 year old that had a 5 ERA last season and a 1.45 WHIP.

Agreed. He is the David DeJesus of pitchers on this board. If the Giants want Hardy, they will have to do much better than that. The only way that I trade Hardy is if Cain is coming back in the deal, or if the Giants take Suppan off our hands too.

[PrinceEatMeat]

Honestly, I wouldn't trade Hardy for anyone on the Giants, but Lincecum. Otherwise, I think our best move is to hold onto Hardy and either trade Escobar, or move one of them to a different position. I think there is a reason why Escobar will be working with Willie Randolph at 2b during spring training. I think we will be seeing Hardy and Escobar up the middle in 2010 if Rickie doesn't show improvement this year.