Sabathia, Sheets, Shouse offered arbitration: Latest- All three decline

[Fatter than Joey]

I do think he'll land a major league deal some place because he won't cost any team a pick.

 

I agree 100%. I think some team will offer him a one year deal in the 2-3M range with tons of incentives.

 

Offer Gagne 1 year/5 mil and I'm pretty sure he'd accept it. I think that would be a smart decision.

 

That's not quite how it works... We would submit $5M and Boras would submit $8M and then an arbiter would pick one salary or the other -- that is the risk. Now, we could offer Gagne Arby's and then work out a deal before a hearing of course...

 

Also I would much rather offer Gagne arbitration than sign Fuentes. He'll probably get a four-year deal, which is something I really want no part of for a reliever.

 

Why not? -- Fuentes is a solid pitcher.

[Oldcity]

Fuentes is solid but I don't like overpaying relievers. To get a free agent reliever, especially a top-tier one, you'll have to overpay. Since the Brewers can only overpay so many people, I'd rather not do it for a reliever. It's why I was so glad Cordero went elsewhere last year.

[PilprinBuddha]

I'd decline Arby on Gane and then offer him a one year deal.

[Oldcity]

Yeah that's also an option but then you're competing with other teams and you don't have the possibility of the draft pick. I could go either way on it, really.

[Invader3K]

Heard Gord Ash on MLB on XM about an hour ago. He mentioned that it seemed likely the team would be offering arbitration to Sheets and Shouse (as well as Sabathia), but final decisions would be made this afternoon.

[endaround]

Do free agent eligible players who accept arbitration get the same no trade protection?

[kramnoj]

It's not even really a risk at $8 mil because the Brewers could just release him before the start of the season and not owe him anything. The player's union might not be too happy, but that's for them to worry about.

 

Is this true? By "anything", do you mean the full amount? I thought that a player that had a contract was owed a certain amount (1/6 or 1/3 are sticking in my mind) if they were cut. What was the deal with Vargas last year, the Brewers had to pay him a certain amount when they cut him before the season. Would they have owed less, or nothing if they had cut him earler?

[TooLiveBrew]

He is coming off a pretty darn good 2nd half with a 3.52 ERA, WHIP of 1.0, and a BAA of .205. If he wouldn't have given up so many darn HR's last year we would probably be talking about bringing him back.

 

Different players & circumstances, but Scott Linebrink is a decent Exhibit A of how fluky RPs can be from year to year. I think trying to hammer out an incentive-laden deal with Gagne would be worth the Brewers' time & money (given that I think the price tag of ~ $3M plus incentives is the ballpark).

[Fatter than Joey]

What was the deal with Vargas last year, the Brewers had to pay him a certain amount when they cut him before the season. Would they have owed less, or nothing if they had cut him earler?

 

There is a date during ST when if a player gets cut before that date, they get 30 days termination pay, if they cut him after that date they get 45 days of termination pay, which I assume is a prorated amount from the arbitrated salary --- so it would be non-trivial.

[Pudster13]

I'm against offering Gagne arbitration for this reason:

I thought that if a team offers arbitration to the player, the player is guarenteed to get a raise from his previous year's salary?

If this is true, Gagne is not worth more that $10M for next year. I'd be fine with the Brewers offering a 1 year deal for 4-5M.

Does anyone know if this is indeed true?

[Fatter than Joey]

I thought that if a team offers arbitration to the player, the player is guarenteed to get a raise from his previous year's salary?

 

This is not true --

 

However, players rarely see a reduction in salary when they go to arbitration -- players may lose their case, but generally they end up making more than they did the previous season -- just less than they hoped for the future season.

[mothershipconnection]

Do free agent eligible players who accept arbitration get the same no trade protection?

 

I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", and they can be traded at any time. That's how recent articles have made it seem.

[Fatter than Joey]

I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", and they can be traded at any time. That's how recent articles have made it seem.

 

Unless they are 10 and 5ers.

[Roderick]

Put me in the camp that wouldn't offer arby to Gagne. The risk of paying him more than you think he is worth because of an arbitrator's ruling is more than the potential pick is going to be worth.

 

I don't get into the stats behind the stats and I know ERA is far from perfect for bullpen pitching, but it seems to me if Gagne improves he is a 4.25 ERA guy out of the pen. You could pitch Shouse to quite a few right handers and he would still have a much better ERA than that. Shouse doesn't have any arm problems and we are talking only a one-year contract, so why does everyone think Shouse isn't worth $3M, but Gagne is worth $5M?

 

For the record, I wouldn't probably go over $3M for either of them. Once you reach that price, I would try to trade/sign someone solid and fill the bullpen with minimum contracts so the budget isn't busted.

 

Side question - since there is a statistical value for everything, has anyone attempted to place a dollar value on how much a sandwich pick is worth? Would you risk paying Gagne $2-3M more than what he is worth for a pick?

[Crew2323]

Sabathia, Sheets, and Shouse offered arbitration:

 

Sabathia, Sheets, Shouse offered arbitration

By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel

Dec. 1, 2008 2:48 p.m.

The Brewers have decided to offer salary arbitration to three of their free agents -- CC Sabathia, Ben Sheets and Brian Shouse. They will not offer arbitration to Eric Gagne.

Sabathia and Sheets are Class A free agents and if they sign with other clubs, the Brewers will get two draft picks in return. Shouse is a Class B free agent and the Brewers would get one compensation pick if he signs elsewhere.

The Brewers passed on Gagne because he made $10 million last year and would make more than they want to pay in arbitration despite a poor 2008 season.

Players have until Sunday to decide to accept the arbitration offer. If they do, they are considered signed for 2009 at a salary to be determined.

Sabathia, the top pitcher on the free agent market, obviously will not accept arbitration. He already has a six-year, $140 million offer from the Yankees and a five-year, $100 million bid from the Brewers, with other teams expected to join the auction.

Sheets provides the most interesting case. Because of a history of injuries, his value on the market is unclear. If he gets a decent multi-year offer, he'll go elsewhere and the Brewers will get two draft picks in return. If he decides to accept their offer, he'll play for the Brewers one more year at a salary that should exceed his $11 million pay in 2008.

Shouse has been looking for a two-year deal and if another team offers one, he'll accept. The Brewers don't want to go beyond one year, which is what Shouse will get if he accepts their offer.

I'll get comments from general manager Doug Melvin later and put up another post.

Link

[Oldcity]

That's what I expected. I wonder if Shouse will accept it. At this point I would almost be fine if he didn't, as they'd get a pretty nice pick considering he's a 40-year old loogy.

[davego]

I'll just guess and say that he does.

[CheezWizHed]

Any word on other FAs? Hoffman or Woods? Anyone else declined that might make them more interesting as FAs?

[trwi7]

I've heard the Cubs probably won't offer it to Wood. The most surprising one is the Yankees deciding not to offer Abreu arbitration.

[schmidty]

Really? On the Cubs website it says the Cubs probably will offer arbitration to Wood, but the Padres won't offer arbitration to Hoffman.

[nate82]

Any word on other FAs? Hoffman or Woods? Anyone else declined that might make them more interesting as FAs?

No arbitration offer for Wood

[PeaveyFury]

No arby for Howry either.

 

Also, LA reportedly won't offer arby to Joe Beimel, which seems stunning to me.

[danzig6767]

I agree that I'd offer arbitration to all four. Offer Gagne 1 year/5 mil and I'm pretty sure he'd accept it. I think that would be a smart decision. He was a good pitcher in the second half, and the Brewers will need relievers.

Saying Gagne had a good "second half" implies that for half of the season, Gagne was a good pitcher. Looking at his splits, Gagne had a good month in September, but in July/August, his combined ERA was above five. One good month covering 11 innings sure wouldn't be enough for me to not only give Gagne an assured 5 million, but possibly more if the ruling went against us.

[sveumrules]

it looks like the dbacks didn't offer arby to dunn.

 

if fielder or hart are traded to fill rotation holes i wouldn't be too upset with a 3/45ish deal for him to fill either lf (with braun sliding to rf) or 1b, even though it would only serve to magnify the number of people complaining about meaningless strikeouts.

[TooLiveBrew]

Wow, if that's true, why wouldn't AZ have offered him arbitration? That would seem very odd to me. And then yes, sign me up as well for pursuing Dunn via FA.