Why David Dejesus?

[endaround]

CF, he's three wins above average in LF making him a top flight defender in left.

[BrewCrewForever]

Either way I do not see DeJesus as an upgrade over Cameron. Sure DeJesus is cheaper, but the Brewers still have to pay by giving up players to get him.

 

I wouldn't say he is an upgrade on defense, but on offense he is. Sure less power but higher OBP, higher BA and another left handed bat in the lineup which we really need. Not to mention the cheaper and younger factor.

[kramnoj]

2008 was the first time that DeJesus was a better player with the bat than Cameron, and he had to hit over .300 to do so.

 

This is probably all moot anyway. The cost to get DeJesus is probably going to be more than he would be worth to the Brewers. He at this point is a corner OF where he will be plus defensively. They don't have anybody better to replace him, so there's not much need to trade him.

[logan82]

BrewCrewIn2004 wrote:

I wouldn't say he is an upgrade on defense, but on offense he is. Sure less power but higher OBP, higher BA and another left handed bat in the lineup which we really need. Not to mention the cheaper and younger factor.

Overall they are pretty close offensively. You would trade a righty for a lefty and SLG for OBP. Given the big difference in Defense I think Cameron would be a much better choice for CF.

[brewerguy71]

I think that it would take a lot more than what some posters here think it would take to get DeJesus.

 

I would love to see him roaming CF and hitting leadoff or 2nd in the Brewer lineup. The problem with getting him on the cheap is that the Royals have the same problem the Brewers do in that they have to protect their cheap, young talent.

 

Imo, it would take Parra to get him, if it were a straight up deal. He was their 2nd biggest offensive producer last year for the Royals, he is under contract for two more years (on the cheap) and he is highly coveted by teams like the Brewers who need obp and top of the batting order presences.

 

If were talking prospects Gamel might work one for one, or start with Jeffress then add on a bunch of very good A level guys including Green or Cain and LuCroy.

[TheCrew07]

There is no way DeJesus is worth 3 prospects of the caliber you mention, as Gamel isn't going anywhere and neither is Parra. All of the players you mentioned are now AA players, Jeffress, Green, Cain, and Lucroy (the C is not caps) will all start the year in Huntsville, and Cain and Jeffress could end up in AAA because there are not top prospects in front of them.

 

It seems to me that people around here tend to undervalue Parra... how many lefties in the game can run the ball up there in mid 90s? We can count them on 1 hand... He may never be a #2 pitcher as there's more to it than raw ability, but I'm not into moving players of his upside from a position we're already terribly thin at. Again for me it comes to down to building from the pitching on down, so I'll always be opposed to moving a SP unless we have someone better who he's blocking.

[kramnoj]

It seems to me that people around here tend to undervalue Parra

 

Who here is undervaluing Parra? All Brewerguy said was that it might take Parra to get DeJesus. He didn't say he endorsed it, he is just looking at the trade from the Royals POV, which too few fans realistically do when making a trade proposal.

[brewerguy71]

Thanks for the backup kramnoj...

 

To answer the previous post, I dont believe that I have undervalued Parra, but at the same time you are undervaluing DeJesus. Parra has upside, yes, but DeJesus is locked up for two years, has speed, gets on base, and is a proven commodity. And for the same reasons mentioned here, he is also worth a pitcher who may never make it, a catcher who regressed in high A this past year offensively and one realistic prospect added to balance it out.

 

I like DeJesus, I dont think that the Brewers can trade pitching either but to get a guy like DeJesus, I think that is what it would take to get him.

 

I think that Teahen could be obtained for the DeFelice/Dillard deal brought up a few posts ago.

[joepepsi]

I would not trade Parra for DeJesus!

[yoshii8]

I would not trade Parra for DeJesus!

I definitely would not do this either, I think Parra has more value than Dejesus.

[jjfanec]

Couldn't we look at what the Royals gave up to get Crisp (Ramon Ramirez)? They consider Crisp better than DeJesus, so if you you Ramon Ramirez as a starting point as to what we would have to give up what we would have in a similar vain? I know DeJesus has a better contract than Crisp, so we may have to give a little more but the Royals do not seem like they are in love with DeJesus as a player, so I think Gamel, Parra, and Jeffress are all too much if you look at it that way. Ramon Ramirez is a good reliever who is relatively young at 27. Last year was his first really good year and in 06 he was pretty good. I am guessing the Royals would either want middle infield help or young pitching. I just don't what would match up but i think Parra, Gamel and Jeffress are too high, so I was wondering what we have that is similar to Ramon Ramirez in value.

[endaround]

The Royals don't like DeJesus in CF. That is entirely different than not liking DeJesus. Most likely they'd rather have DeJesus than Teahen or Guillen. Guillen is untradeable for his contract and well being an ass. Teahen might be tradeable because he's cheap.

[brewerguy71]

I would not trade Parra for DeJesus!

I would not make this trade either, seeing as how starting pitching depth in the organization is a weak point at present.

 

I do think that DeJesus is worth Parra. I dont understand why people would think this statement is so outrageous. Look at the numbers. DeJesus gets on base, he has speed, can play CF and can hit at the top of the order. These are all things the Brewers need badly. Parra has some upside, but he has an injury history and the only thing he has proven so far is that he will break down without usage limitations. MLB history is filled with guys who had great stuff but have gotten injured or werent able to get control problems inline. I actually predict an injury this year for Parra from being overused last year and a continuation of that into the early part of this year.

[CheezWizHed]

If were talking prospects Gamel might work one for one, or start with Jeffress then add on a bunch of very good A level guys including Green or Cain and LuCroy.

 

Isn't that more than we gave up for CC? I don't konw Dejesus, but that is way too much to give up for an inexpensive version of Cameron (per other's description). Seeing that Cain might be a similar player in 2010, that wouldn't make sense at all.

[TheCrew07]

The point is, the 3 player deal is a better deal than the Indians got for Sabathia, and he's an above average guy signed for only 2 years, there's no way he pulls a young pitcher by himself, unless it's a bottom of the rotation guy, which Parra is not.

[brewerguy71]

If were talking prospects Gamel might work one for one, or start with Jeffress then add on a bunch of very good A level guys including Green or Cain and LuCroy.

 

Isn't that more than we gave up for CC? I don't konw Dejesus, but that is way too much to give up for an inexpensive version of Cameron (per other's description). Seeing that Cain might be a similar player in 2010, that wouldn't make sense at all.

Not really. LaPorta is projected as an All Star type bat and that was the case from the moment he was drafted . Gamel has potential, but has had an injury and was not raised to top prospect status until he was in the system for a couple of years. And we sent three mid level guys in addition to LaPorta.

 

DeJesus is a guy who was the 6th best outfielder in the AL last year according to WPA. He is no slouch and is by no means a mini-Cameron. There is tremendous value in this player and it will cost to get him.

 

Maybe Jeffress, LuCroy and Cain/Green is too steep, but two of those 4 would be selling DeJesus wayyyyy to short for the Royals.

[And That]

Neither Jeffress nor Gamel is going to be involved in a DeJesus deal unless we're getting back more than DeJesus. DeJesus isn't a big enough upgrade over any OF on the roster to warrant that, nor is he worth it IMO.

 

Lucroy (note, the C is not capitalized) might be the key piece for the Royals, but that's as high up the prospect totem pole as the Royals would get from the Brewers right now, and maybe not even that. They might be somewhat more interested in pitching prospects and relief help anyway. I could see a Periard, Aguilar and Fryer type deal.

[yoshii8]

Not really. LaPorta is projected as an All Star type bat and that was the case from the moment he was drafted . Gamel has potential, but has had an injury and was not raised to top prospect status until he was in the system for a couple of years. And we sent three mid level guys in addition to LaPorta.

I''m not sure why it matters how they got to be the prospects they are right now, but I think both are considered equally good prospects w/ Gamel maybe having a slight edge.

[brewerguy71]

I will say again that I would like to see the Brewers get David DeJesus, but it seems like there is a little bit of insanity on this board regarding his value (or lack thereof).

 

DeJesus is a guy who had 23 win shares last year, 96 Runs Created and had a .307/.366/.818 clip last year. That is an upgrade offensively over every single Brewer last year except for Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun. And its not too much lower than either of those guys.

 

He is 29 years old, has an established track record, and comes cheaply for 2 years. He is definitely worth Manny Parra one for one. He is definitely worth a upper level prospect one on one or two to three mid level prospects.

 

I do not think that the Brewers will give up what it would take to get DeJesus and that will be because he is worth more than what the Brewers will want to part with. Teahen is the guy from the Royals to get. Its rumored that the Cubs would give up Marshall and Fontenot to get him, if this is what the Royals are looking for, on the Brewer end I would say that translates into a Villanueva/Gwynn type of deal.

[joepepsi]

Its rumored that the Cubs would give up Marshall and Fontenot to get him, if this is what the Royals are looking for,....

Cripes why don't they just move Fontenot to RF then?

[logan82]

That is an upgrade offensively over every single Brewer last year except for Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun. And its not too much lower than either of those guys.

Not much of an upgrade. That is only marginally better than Cameron with worse defense and I doubt he does much better than Hart. In fact his 3 year splits are worse than Hart's. It doesn't even pay to compare him offensively to our infielders since he can't play there. I don't disagree with what it would take to get him, but I see no way we would trade any of the players you talked about for a marginal upgrade.