Fielder contract extension?

[NeedMoreFans]

I heard today on Madison's sports radio station that the Brewers offered Fielder a 5 year/$60 mil contract extension, but he declined the offer. I've been looking for a link to that story, but have come up empty. Has anyone else heard this story?

[kramnoj]

I believe that is regarding an offer that was made to Fielder before the 2008 season, and was referenced in one of the myriad of hot stove articles that have come out in the last week or two. I'm not sure if it was in the JS, or if it was Rosenthal, or one of the NY papers.

 

Edit: Google is my friend. Here is one link: http://www.sportingnews.c...rn/viewtopic.php?t=479610

[DHonks]

Haudricourt has made reference to that a number of times throughout the year, citing that as the number. I knew that in Spring Training supposedly he had a sizeable offer on the table that even Boras had approved (given his lack of years of experience, and distance to free agency), but Fielder turned it down citing wanting more money. Then a week later the Brewers renewed his contract and Prince was angry.

[fleehaw]

Haudricourt has made reference to that a number of times throughout the year, citing that as the number. I knew that in Spring Training supposedly he had a sizeable offer on the table that even Boras had approved (given his lack of years of experience, and distance to free agency), but Fielder turned it down citing wanting more money. Then a week later the Brewers renewed his contract and Prince was angry.

Wow! Boras gave his okay for the deal, but Fielder wanted more. Given Boras' reputation, that certainly paints Fielder in a negative light. It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall when his name comes up in conversations this offseason.

[DHonks]

That's just what I've heard from sources....it could be wrong.

[raven2479]

That would be very interesting indeed. I know he hates being referenced to his father, but if he plays off of his family name for reputation and money, he's just a hypocrite. At this point, if this report is true, I believe he thinks he is worth more because he's a Fielder. I know I am making an assumption, but that is bad news.

[brewerguy71]

Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez both turned down similar offers a few years back while still with the Red Sox, and both of those players' careers went south shortly thereafter.

 

So if we do the math that would have been $15mm in 08, $15mm in 09....he made less than $1mm last year and might get $8 this year. Out over $20 million dollars. Even if he has a huge year this year he doesnt get more than $12 for 2010. By the time that 4 years will have passed he will probably have cost himself about $25 million dollars. He's definitely not the smartest guy on the team, you know?

[fleehaw]

5yrs/$60M is $12M a year, not $15M. Fielder could easily pull down $30M total for his 3 arbitration years. That leaves 2 FA years at $15M a piece. IMO, that offer was right on the money.

[brewerguy71]

My mistake, had 4 years on the mind....

 

Id say he is still out about $15 million over the length of that contract.

[thebruce44]

I know he hates being referenced to his father, but if he plays off of his family name for reputation and money, he's just a hypocrite. At this point, if this report is true, I believe he thinks he is worth more because he's a Fielder. I know I am making an assumption, but that is bad news.

To try and relate this to his estranged father is a very large stretch in my opinion. He clearly has a chip on his shoulder, but it seems to just be his way to motivate himself (successful or otherwise). I truly believe he thought he would be hitting 50 hrs every year and get a deal like Big Poppy once he hit FA. With his body type and poor defense, he probably should have cashed in when he could, but I am glad he didn't.

[rluzinski]

Was it supposed to be effective for the 08 or 09 season? If it was 09, would have been a bad deal for Fielder. As Flee showed, even conservative numbers make it a break-even deal for Fielder (a league average player will be making $15 mil a year by 2012). All it would do is push out free agency until he was almost 30. With the history of larger players, why would he want to do that?

 

Even if it was to start in 08', maybe he left $15 mil on the table, so he could become a free agent one year earlier. I would have taken the money but I'm not Prince. He hit 50 HRs at age 23, so it's not that farfetched if he thought/thinks that he'll be the best hitter in the league by age 28. Maybe he doesn't like Milwaukee. Maybe he wants to be a free agent as soon as possible. I get the feeling that some want to make him out to be a bad or dumb person for not taking the deal. He could easily sign a 5/$100 mil deal in 2012 and retire a rich man. He's assuming some risk, obviously, but it's his risk to take.

[ILuvDaBush]

I thought the only player to sign an extention before arbitration, for FA years, while being advised by Scott Boras (So many qualifiers...) was Andruw Jones, and he did it DESPITE Boras's attempts to dissuade him. I find it hard to believe Boras would sign off on a player who just recently (as in when the contract was offered) hit 50 HR's-the younges to do so....ever. Let me ask you this question. If we weren't to sign CC, and we approached Prince now, what could he expect?

[fondybadger]

I hate being one of "these" posters, but from what I've heard in the upper echelon of the team hierarchy is after the Brewers offered Fielder the money before the 2008 season, and he didn't accept... the team is now HAPPY he did not accept the contract extension. The front office is citing that Fielder is out of shape, not great defensively, and his time with Milwaukee is limited. A lot of people who watch the team understand that, but I was shocked to hear them actually say that.

 

Further, I heard there was no intention to bring Sheets back. The Brewers resigned Cameron, while overpaying him, they didn't want to have to worry about replacing a centerfielder when they needed pitching and maybe a SECOND Baseman already... CC will sign with Yankees or the Angels who are preparing to make a huge offer (big shock I know). TGJ is not going to ever be worth starting.

 

Other funny things I heard... new grass at Miller Park so now Corey Hart isn't going to be able to blame the field when he's bobbling balls in the outfield and Cameron is a solid signing because he can chase after Suppan 400 foot moon shots.

 

Heard a few other funny things the other day from the front office, but can't remember them now in the drunk state I'm in.

[rluzinski]

Well fonzy, I hope your comments don't represent the feelings of the front office, since a few are concerning.

 

1. Fielder's defense was bas in 2008.

 

It was bad in highschool, it was bad in the minors and it's been bad every year in the majors. I don't think he was any worse in 2008 than he's been in his a career. His defense has and will continue to seriously cut into his overall value.

 

2. Fielder is out of shape.

 

Perhaps they were concerned by how fast he's gained weight but by offering him a contract through 2012, they were going to see him cecil-sized at some point. That was pretty much a given, no?

 

3. They overpaid for Cameron

 

If the Brewers front office felt that they overpaid Cameron, I seriously question their ability to evaluate talent and/or gauge the cost of talent on the free agent market. Unless the economy seriously depresses salaries this off season, a league average player is going to cost about $10 mil. If we can take Melvins words at face value (which is always a gamble), he feels Cameron was one of the better CFers in the league last year. He's now projecting him to be below average for 2009?

 

I'm guess that you and Gord weren't sitting at a bar, talking Brewers one day. Can you be a hair more specific about the source of this information? Friend of a friend of a guy who catered a meeting, or straight from the source?

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't think he was any worse in 2008 than he's been in his a career.

 

I think he was worse in 2008.

 

3. They overpaid for Cameron

 

I took this to mean that they are spending more than they hoped to in CF, not that Cam at $10M is a bad value. Maybe going into 2008 they had figured they could put TGJ in CF, or shift Hart to CF and put LaPorta in LF/RF or something like that -- when neither looked like good options, perhaps Cam at $10m is the only option they had.

[rluzinski]

Prior to 2008, I was always so surprised tb how forgiving people were about Prince's defense. Early in his career, it was always about how hard he was working on improving his defense. In 2007, it was almost completely ignored (which isn't surprising, considering his monster year offensively). What did Fielder do worse in 2008 than before?

 

I don't think it's a given that he got to less balls in 2008, despite the assumption that his growing belly made that a given. In 2008, Dewan's defensive metric had him making 12 less outs than an average 1B would have (nothing to do with receiving a throw, just fielding a hit ball and it becoming an out). That made him one of the worst defensive 1B last year. But over the last 3 years, he's made 45 less plays than average., which means he averaged -16.5 plays /year over 06-07. According to that, he improved in 2008. That's some pretty decent evidence that he didn't get worse in that regard, at least.

 

Furthermore, he's always been so bad at receiving throws that I personally can't say whether it was even worse in 08'. Maybe? I didn't notice anything significant.

 

I think people saw his belly growing and his HR rate fall and became more critical of his defense.

[endaround]

You also have to include the mortal sin Prince made, he didn't decide to sign a below market deal to play for the Brewers. Again Milwaukee sports fans need their players not only to play well but to want to play in Milwaukee so much that they'll give up money to do so.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Fielder has regressed physically - there's no arguing that. He was stealing double digit bases in the minor leagues - not a speed guy by any means, but he could run very well for a big guy. I think he hasn't gained that much weight, but the weight he's gained isn't good weight - guys his size don't need to bulk up or get stronger, and he should realize that keeping weight off is crucial to his career long-term.

 

I wonder what happened to the nutitionist he worked with leading up to and shortly after getting drafted - Just because he get's a year older doesn't mean it should be expected of him to gain another 10-15 lbs.

 

Defensively, Fielder was never going to be great, but IMO he was a much better defender two seasons ago - his range was never good, but he at least caught balls that were hit/thrown at him, and he was pretty respectable at digging throws out of the dirt. I think the 50-HR year got into his head, and he spent the past offseason regressing.

 

While Fielder's weight doesn't directly relate to his power drop last season, I think it indicates a poor work ethic on his part - the most important thing to a professional athlete is the condition of his body. When the only thing keeping Fielder from making 100's of millions of dollars during his career is a weight issue, why not do something about it? Also, it's tough to take an extra 50 swings in the batting cage or take extended fielding practice when you're shoving donuts in your face instead. He's got all the natural ability in the world to be a great player - but he's a waste if he doesn't put the hard work in to improve his physical condition and improve areas of his game that he struggles in.

[Hammer]

You also have to include the mortal sin Prince made, he didn't decide to sign a below market deal to play for the Brewers. Again Milwaukee sports fans need their players not only to play well but to want to play in Milwaukee so much that they'll give up money to do so.

How did he do this end? 5 yrs, 60 million was not a low-ball offer. For a guy that only has one real great talent I thought the offer may have been a bit high. He is destined to be a DH...and not many DH's get 12 mil per year to put up the numbers that Fielder did (or didn't).

 

edit: to all of those people that say crap like "Milwaukee sports fans need their players not only to play well but to want to play in Milwaukee so much that they'll give up money to do so". Why are you spending so much time around other Milwaukee sports fans? If we are that inept at life why don't you find a team in New York, Chicago or So-Cal that can just float money all over.

[yfinn6]

"Milwaukee sports fans need their players not only to play well but to want to play in Milwaukee so much that they'll give up money to do so". Why are you spending so much time around other Milwaukee sports fans? If we are that inept at life why don't you find a team in New York, Chicago or So-Cal that can just float money all over.

This doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.

 

I'm a Brewer fan, but I also understand that Milwaukee ain't exactly the nicest city in the States to live for most of the year. And I know that an overly large contract could hurt this team in the long run, I have no problem with the Brewers "low balling" Fielder if that is indeed what they did. Now Braun on the other hand.. I think he should be given the best contract that the organization can. He's just a better overall player.

[endaround]

It has nothing to do with Milwaukee spending less money than other teams and everything with Milwaukee fans acting like they need reinforcement by athletes. Its why every single former Brewer get booed when they return. Fielder will be in Milwaukee 6 year if he isn't traded. Thats a fairly long time. The fact that he might not want to spend his entire career in Milwaukee isn't a personal insult, though people tend to treat it as such. Fielder became persona non grata after the details of his turning down a contract came out.

[Invader3K]

Now Braun on the other hand.. I think he should be given the best contract that the organization can. He's just a better overall player.

They did give him a pretty nice contract extension earlier this year.

 

If Fielder wants to leave, he'll leave. The Brewers have already tried to keep him, and I would bet they'll make him at least one more offer before he leaves for free agency or is traded.

[jjfanec]

It has nothing to do with Milwaukee spending less money than other teams and everything with Milwaukee fans acting like they need reinforcement by athletes. Its why every single former Brewer get booed when they return.

This is something that happens in many other cities. Twins fans relentlessly boo A.J. Persynski even though he did not choose to leave the team. Players are normally booed when they leave to go somewhere else, especially when money is an issue. I never got the people who booed Jenkins because it was not money that was the issue it was that he did not have a spot on this team anymore. However, to talk like it is Milwaukee fans having an inferiority complex is wrong because fans all over boo players after they leave for bigger contracts.

[rluzinski]

Defensively, Fielder was never going to be great, but IMO he was a much better defender two seasons ago - his range was never good, but he at least caught balls that were hit/thrown at him, and he was pretty respectable at digging throws out of the dirt.

 

Respectable at digging throws out? Everyone has their own opinion of course but I remember him always being bad at it. I remember thinking many times over that Fielder was making his infielders look worse than they were.... Hall during his first go around at 3B.

 

The fans already so him as a very bad defender in 2006:

 

http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/pos2006_1B.html

 

Maybe he was even worse overall in 2008 but he was never not bad.

[DHonks]

Russ,

 

I was always a Fielder supporter, claiming that he had surprising agility and defensive range. In April and May we saw him repeatedly make several mistakes that hadn't been as prevalent in recent years, although perhaps due to fewer of these types of chances:

1) Routine 1-hop throws that he whiffed on.

2) We saw him range towards second to try to field balls only to realize there was nobody at first because he'd cut off his 2nd baseman.

3) balls hit to him that he showed indecisiveness with. Some included waiving off his pitcher, then gesturing for the pitcher to cover, then ultimately sprinting to the bag (see the Gallardo knee injury). Too often he'd say that he'd take it himself but lazily move towards first, only to find he was saved by the pitcher covering or the fear that runners had of crashing into him

4) his inability to bend over. Richie Sexson frequently got his right knee dirty because he was getting so low to the ground to field low throws. Prince never had chances on many do to his poor body shape/flexibility.

 

I stand by my prediction from June that one day we'll see Fielder on the highlight/lowlight reels with Canseco. Jose gets hit in the head on the 4-base error, Fielder gets hit in the face on a routine throw from his 3rd baseman.