BA: Team-by-Team Top Prospects

[Kevbo74]

the Brewers list came out in the magazine, posted here if anyone wants to know

http://www.freedomcardboa...viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24204

[TheCrew07]

Wow X will be happy with #7.

[twobrewers]

Clancy will always have "Best Control".

[Never Outhustled]

Wow X will be happy with #7.

When I saw you right that I thought for sure it was going to be Brent Brewer. I love Cutter too, but BA loves him even more. Thats great, they have the inside info.

 

I really can't wait to see where our system ranks overall. Last years 21st ranking was way off, a suprising mistake for the very talented BA staff. Will we sneak into the top 5 this year?

[And That]

I don't think we'll get the top 5, or maybe even the top 10... while we have a very deep and wide farm system, we don't have the marquee guys on top. This is not a slight to Gamel, Escobar, Jeffress or Lawrie, but they all have a big enough wart (in order, defense, offense, pot, no pro AB) that you can't put them in the same class (IMO) as the previous highly ranked Brewer systems led by Fielder, Hardy, Weeks, etc.

 

I do think the Brewers system is vastly underrated by many people and that we'll get a number of good pitchers and everyday players out of the group. Guys like Taylor Green, Jon Lucroy, and Efrain Nieves get a somewhat woeful lack of respect in general and the team has absurd depth at catcher, third, short, center field and the pen. And the young starting prospects are going to make a name for themselves this coming year. So while I don't think we're a top 5, we might be a top 10, and I think BA will have us somewhere between 8-14 or so.

[jjfanec]

I understand what you are saying about top-end talent in some ways but MILB had Escobar 8, Gamel 23, and Jeffress 44. That is 3 guys in the top 44 which is pretty solid. I am not sure how the second tier of guys rank that would definitely be enough to get some serious push toward top ten.

[sheetskout]

Odorizzi not on the list is a travesty. Same with Gindl. I also think people continue to overvalue Cutter Dykstra, easily the most wild-card of the 2008 draftees....

[biedergb]

In terms of pitchers, I hadn't looked at other teams, but at least as far as the Brewers I think it's fair to list some higher profile names (Scarpetta, Odorizzi) lower since they are only in rookie ball and our past history indicates that pitching "prospects" are very difficult to predict, but hitters are more likely to come through.

[clancyphile]

Clancy will always have "Best Control".

LOL! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Can't disagree with that top ten more - Escobar is overrated. If Weeks doesn't put it together in `09, he'll move up in my list as I'd see him as the new 2B for the Crew.

[PrimeTime955]

LOL! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Can't disagree with that top ten more - Escobar is overrated. If Weeks doesn't put it together in `09, he'll move up in my list as I'd see him as the new 2B for the Crew.

This may not be the spot to debate this, but why would you want to waste Escobar at second base?

[monkeyman343434]

The same reason why braun is moving back to 3B - there is no reason for Escobar to move to 2B

[strawbossisevil]

If we are so willing to have Hardy/Escobar playing 3B/SS. What would it matter which of the two plays the listed positions, but were switched around. The offense would be the same. Would putting Escobar at 3B be that huge of a waste of his athletecism?

 

I think putting him at 3B would allow Hardy to play further up the middle, getting many of the balls that Weeks often fails to get.

 

And then if Hardy does move on, if we can't get him signed to a long term contract, we slide Escobar back over to SS.

 

Also, I am hypothesizing this not for the '09 season, but for next season at the earliest.

[endaround]

Because Escobar profiles so poorly with the bat (CHONE projection for next season .270/.303/.356) that you can find a replacement level 3B and be better off. Just not enough balls hit that way.

[strawbossisevil]

Right, but you are ignoring my point. No matter which way it goes, the offense is the same, no matter which position they play (if someone is in favor of having the combo of JJ and Escobar, the offense is no different where they play). And also note that I was not pushing for that to happen this year, thus posting his Chone projections for this season doesn't really address what I was talking about.

 

I guess the only legitimate point in your post that addresses the point I made in my post is that he would not have enough balls hit his way where his defense would worthwhile at 3B. I don't know the numbers, how many more balls on average does a SS field over a 3B over the course of a season? It would be interesting to find out how big of a difference that would be. Plus add his range in on top of that of an average 3B, he would probably field more balls than your average 3B.

 

I wonder how many runs a left side infield of Escobar (3B) and Hardy (SS) would save over an average infield. How many wins would their defense be worth in that regard?

 

I could imagine teams having a very hard time sneaking a groundball through that side of the infield, with JJ's instincts, and Escobar's range.

[logan82]

The highest chances for a 3B last year was 416. The lowest qualified SS had 443. I would guess roughly double the chances.

[sheetskout]

I'm honestly not sure why some users continue to speculate that Escobar will play anything BUT shortstop.

[trwi7]

I'm honestly not sure why some users continue to speculate that Escobar will play anything BUT shortstop.

There was an article on brewers.com that said Randolph was going to work with Escobar at second base in spring training.

[strawbossisevil]

If you don't think its worth talking about it, skip the comments. It's not hard. As trwi7 pointed out they have him working out at second base, so to act as if it is so far fetched that he could at least play some at another position isn't as far fetched as you try to make it (much less grounds to get on a high horse and judge other's posts and not add anything to the discussion).

 

And last I checked, speculating is part of what makes this site interesting.

 

I wasn't even suggesting that I wanted Escobar playing third base, I was just asking what the difference was between starting Hardy there versus starting Escobar there, since we have a lot of people pushing to have an Escobar/Hardy left side of the infield (and by all accounts Hardy is not moving off of SS). It was more of a question of the relative defense values of an above average defender at 3b versus the same player at SS, because the offense would be exactly the same. As others pointed out, a 3B is likely to have about 100-200 less balls over the course of a season, so playing Escobar there would be less than ideal. But I'd still be interested in comparing what the value is of a top defensive 3B versus an infielder like Gamel who will hit better, but also likely be a below average fielder. I'd be interested in seeing you comment on that Sheetskout, or you can just continue with the condescending posts, your choice.

[colbyjack]

We've already seen the top 10 list, but the Brewers are up today, highlighted by Alcides Escobar's picture on BA's homepage:

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/images/aescobar09428309bb.jpg

 

And the top 10 (list only, scouting reports for subscribers only):

 

http://www.baseballameric...rospects/2009/267436.html

 

Tom Haudricourt will be chatting about the Brewers prospects with subscribers starting at 1:30 pm. Just a friendly reminder, ask very specific questions and go easy on him, as he gets really grumpy when challenged.

[igor67]

Given that second basemen see almost as many chances as SS, why not at least have the option? The more flexible we can be the better chances of getting the best team on the field. There's always the possibility of injury.

[homer]

Odd that BA thinks Fielder will still be with the team in 2012. How do they come up with those projected lineups anyway?

[Kricket755]

I found it interesting that Caleb Gindl falls out of their top 10 list for Brewers prospects. It isn't surprising, but interesting considering they valued his rookie ball performance last year enough to put him ahead of a guy like Lucroy who is also from the '07 class. I am sure it has much more to do with others climbing past him as opposed to him falling, which is encouraging. After such a solid season for a 19 year old in A-ball and a respectable stint in Hawaii, it is interesting. Maybe they found a new flaw in his game, seeing as the only knock seems to be his height. Or maybe BA just found out Caleb is only 5'9"?

[colbyjack]

homer, Jim Callis has talked about how they form their 2012 rosters in the past, as it is some kind of combination of the players in the system and how long they are under contract for. Haudricourt mentioned in his chat that he didn't have Weeks in CF when he submitted his 2012 projection.

 

As for the chat, there is an interesting amount of questions from people from across the nation, who don't necessarily appear to be Brewers fans. I'm not sure why that is, although I know we have been hard on the Brewers top prospect list chatters in the past. However, this Q&A really bothers me. Keep in mind these chats are for subscribers, meaning people have to pay to participate in these:

 

Q: Zach from Missouri asks: Alcides Escobar or Elvis Andrus?

 

A: Moderator: I haven't seen Andrus but I've seen Escobar and he is a defensive whiz. I haven't heard the same about Andrus. Many scouts consider Escobar one of the top prospects in all of baseball. He's the cover boy on the new BA, which tells you something.

 

I'm sorry Tom, but that's an incredibly lazy answer.

[filthyfrog]

I'm sorry Tom, but that's an incredibly lazy answer.

 

In Tom's defense, I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for here. He's not paid to cover all of minor league baseball and he's admitting he doesn't know much about Andrus. The chat format doesn't allow for research or in depth, thoughtful answers. It would be different if the question was for a full time BA writer.

[colbyjack]

In Tom's defense, I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for here.

 

One with some insight, not just pointing to the fact that Escobar is on the cover of Baseball America. He can either be more honest and say he doesn't know Andrus that well (which he did by the way he answered) or skip the question altogether.

 

He's also basically admitting to not reading the publication. If you're a regular BA reader, you should have some sense of what kind of player Andrus is even if you've never seen him play. That's their objective after all, to increase the knowledge of such players. The Rangers system is one of the best in the game, and Andrus is one of their best players. He's the one forcing the Rangers hand having Michael Young move to 3B. There's plenty of room for more commentary, even in a chat format.

 

And if you read some of the other chats, you'll know that there are plenty of local correspondents that have a solid understanding of the minor leagues. Bill Ballew quickly comes to mind.

 

To cut Haudricourt some slack, it was only one question that I brought up to pick on him. Overall it's clear his knowledge of the system is improving, and he answered a ton of questions today. I'd love to see Adam McCalvy handle the Brewers correspondent position for Baseball America, who seems to write with more passion and doesn't just go through the motions. It was also nice to have John Manuel handle the team a few years ago, which gave us a sense of what the chats could be like (even if we didn't agree with his assessment of Will Inman http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif).