Counsell's option declined -- Latest: re-signed to a 1 year/$1 mil deal (reply #40)

[Scooter1027]

I agree with much of the sentiment here. At 1 year / 1 million, he is cheap and brings things to the table that this team is lacking (good infield defense at multiple positions, and the ability to draw a walk). Obviously overall his hitting leaves much to be desired, but those two aforementioned qualities make him a very solid investment at a million bucks. Utility infielders generally are not good hitters, so I don't know how much more we really could have expected.

[clancyphile]

He's also somewhat fast, so he could also pinch-run.

[monty57]

My only problem with this is what good will it do to have him take a walk only to have Kendall and the pitcher batting behind him? Maybe Macha will have some better design to the batting order to get some runs out of the end of our lineup.

 

Well, since we have a 3B platoon, he should only start when Hardy or Weeks needs a day off. Many of his ABs should come as a pinch hitter for the pitcher, where a walk is much better than the automatic out the pitcher spot normally brings. Although I'm glad he was signed for a relatively low price, I really hope he doesn't get more than 20-30 starts all season.

 

This does bring up the question, if Hardy or Weeks gets hurt (15 day DL), do we start Counsell or does Escobar or Irribarren come up?

[bcf5575]

as a reserve infielder this is a great signing. he is an above average defender that can play all the infield spots, solid veteran presence on a still rather young team, good guy to ph late in games when you need baserunners (as Naivan mentioned above).

 

As long as Macha doesnt decide that Counsell should be platooning at 2b (or anywhere for that matter!) I am happy with this move.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I'll take a .355 OBP player on my team any day of the week and twice on Thursdays

[1992casey]

I'd say the ability to get on is way more important than getting a hit for a pinch hitter.

 

In general, yes. I think logan3825 is referring to the very narrow circumstances where a walk would have negative value. This would almost always be in situation where only one run is needed in the bottom of the final inning.

[logan82]

I was thinking more of times when a hit is more valuable than a walk. If the bases are empty obviously a walk and a single have equal value. Though BA probably should be taken into account for pinch hitting, OBP is still more important. You wouldn't want a high strikeout guy up with a runner on 3B and less than 2 outs. However a high strikeout guy would be a better if there was a guy on 1B and less than 2 outs. My only thought was that when you are using a pinch hitter there is a higher chance of guys on base.

[joepepsi]

Well I was hoping Vinny or Hernan would make the team. I always cheer for the fringe-y types to get at least one decent chance to have a major league career. Guess these two never will.

 

So looks like the non pitcher roster is set.

 

Infield:

Prince

Weeks

Hardy

Hall

Lamb

Counsell

 

Outfield

Braun

Cameron

Hart

Trot or Nelson

Gwynn or Duffy

 

Catcher

Kendall

Rivera

[Blindcheck]

With that makeup, there will be days, that all the bench players (except the catcher, who never PH's) will be lefties....I don't know if I like that...

[DHonks]

I could see the Hurricane make it over Duffy and Gwynn. Then again, I figure Nelson has to make the team since he's out of options and the organization would likely lose him.

[yoda knows all]

Melvin's decisions are questionable at best. I hope he doesn't lock into the weak duo of Lamb and Counsell. The Brewers should allow a Spring Training competition that allows opportunity for others to earn these roster spots. These senior citizens were barely adequate at their peak. The Twins cut Lamb for being too lazy. I think Melvin is too enamored with left handed batters.

[PeaveyFury]

Toronto cut Lamb for being too lazy

 

Lamb never played for Toronto.

 

I hope he doesn't lock into the weak duo of Lamb and Counsell.

 

At third, or for the roster? Because at 3rd, Hall is a big factor in the mix there.

 

These senior citizens were barely adequate at their peak.

 

Lamb was very good as recently as 2006, and good in 2007. Counsell still has value in an appropriate roll (and it's not his problem the previous management felt the need to start him at 3B way too often).

[yoda knows all]

Pardon Peav, I meant the "Twins". These geriatrics hit in the .220s and .230s. Giving them roster spots is rewarding mediocrity.Can't wait for Counsell's annual home run.

[And That]

Giving them roster spots is rewarding mediocrity.

Who exactly in the upper reaches of the Brewers' farm system could replace Counsell?

 

Bourgeois? Justis? Ash? Heether? I don't know that any of those guys give you the plate discipline of Counsell, nor the defensive steadiness.

[PeaveyFury]

These geriatrics hit in the .220s and .230s

 

Lamb hit .307 in 2006, .289 in 2007, and .273 with the Brewers in 2008. The outlier is his .233 with the Twins in 200 AB's.

 

I don't think Lamb is going to be anything close to great for the Brewers in 09, but I don't think there are a ton of better options for the Brewers as a place holder until Gamel comes up sometime in May or June.

[rluzinski]

I can appreciate being concerned about Lamb, since he may actually rack up a decent amount of AB this year. I'm more concerned about his defense, though. Counsell? The bar isn't exactly set very high for a utility infielder. Counsell is probably still well above average in that role.

[RobDeer 45]

Counsell is what he is. He's a vet that will play hard and can play multiple positions. I like him because he doesn't screw up. He's not going to blow you away but he gives you versatility. That's what we want in a back up role.

[endaround]

The only problem with the Counsell signing is that it would seem they won't use Hall in a sub role at short which even furtehr reduces his use to teh Brewers. This maybe just backup in case they are able to move Hall for an overpriced pitcher (Washburn, Contreras(?), Robertson, Davis(?), Schmidt, etc)

[monty57]

This maybe just backup in case they are able to move Hall for an overpriced pitcher (Washburn, Contreras(?), Robertson, Davis(?), Schmidt, etc)

 

While I actually like the idea of moving Hall for pitching, I don't see it happening, as it would leave us with either Lamb pretty much full time at 3B or a lefty/lefty platoon of Lamb / Counsell at least until the probable call-up of Gamel.

 

You are correct on the reduced value of Hall. If all he does is start at 3B against lefties and pinch hit, he doesn't have much value, and will never be able to be traded at his price tag.

[endaround]

If they would move Hall it would be Lamb/McGehee at 3B with the hope that Gamel would be up by June.