Cameron's option picked up (see reply #128)

[yoyo49]

Back to Dejesus, I'd love to have him too. I just see no real reason the Royals trade him unless they are blown away. They like him for the same reasons we'd want him on the Brewers. If we were to deal Hart for Dejesus, we'd be right back here trying to figure out how we fill our void in RF. Neither Gillespie or Cain are ready yet and the FA class of outfielders is quite shallow. Abreu headlines the list, and I'm sure some team will overpay for him for a 2 or 3 year deal.

[joepepsi]

$10 million is a lot to spend for a guy who should at best be your 6 or 7 hitter. But sometimes there is a practical side to a dilemma. A team has a finite source of capital and time to fix holes and improve during the offseason.

 

Doug's plate is pretty full. Hire a manager, scouting director, determine what if anything to offer CC and Sheets, address 3B, find another lefty or two in the lineup, find replacements for CC and/or Sheets, re-tool the bullpen. Declining Cameron's option adds another task to an already daunting list. Accepting the option seems like the simplest course of action, giving Doug more time to work on the serious issues. Especially when there is no guarantee the Crew can find someone who can match Cameron's numbers and defense.

 

This is a team that won 90 games and had the 2nd best record in the league for much of the year. They don't have to blow up the team. Better to make a couple really smart moves that add 4-5 wins than do wholesale makeovers.

[Greg Vaughn]

mlccrispy34[/b]]It's too bad there just isn't another option out there that's better than Cameron. What alot of people I've talked to fail to realize is that Cameron makes the hard plays look easy. I can be sure that not many players would have even layed a glove on the ball hit to CF in NLDS that Cameron dropped. Just the fact that he got to the ball shocked me. Defense is terribly underrated by alot of people. Cameron will be fine in CF in 2009 if the only other option is TGJ. I too stopped reading the comments over at JS Blogs because there are many who seem to criticize no matter what the team does. At least here, we can come together and have an intelligent conversation about stuff.

 

I truley don't understand why people keep giving Cameron a pass in the NLDS. The play was routine...plain and simple.......he dropped it.

 

He is a solid defender but please take off your Camgogs.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

The Yankees like Mike:

 

http://www.nypost.com/sev...nclude_cameron_134825.htm

[Invader3K]

Well, deciding whether to retain him based on one play isn't too logical either.

 

I pretty much agree with joepepsi's take. Planning to find a better CF through free agency or trade doesn't seem to be too realistic at this juncture, given everything else Melvin has to handle this winter. Sometimes a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, you know?

[brewerguy71]

Do the Brewers get a compensatory pick if they dont pick up Cameron's option, and then the Yankees go and pick him up? Or anyone does for that matter?

 

As for DeJesus, I bet KC would give him up if we sent Hardy and perhaps Salome, and they threw in Soria. And before you jump all over me on this one, Salome is never going to be a starting catcher in MLB. Hes too small and needs tremendous work defensively. And he's so dang slow that you cant put him anywhere else. Lucroy is the catcher of the future for this team.

 

I think that the Brewers are going to be in semi-rebuilding mode next year, so why not get a start early. Trade the increasingly expensive Fielder to the Red Sox who arent going to be resigning David Ortiz, for Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Buchholz, Daniel Bard and another AA prospect. You get your CF, you get your leadoff hitter, you get younger and you get cheaper, and you pick up a big time pitching prospect, and a closer for 2 years from now.

[Tbadder]

Unless they need the money to sign CC, I'm for resigning Cameron. If they cut him loose they get no compensation, but if he plays here next year at roughly the same rate I'm sure he'll be a Type-B free agent (though I can't say this with abolute certainty).

 

What we really need to do is get a third baseman and acquire a better OBP rightfielder. Hart is the real evil in the outfield, not Cameron.

[Invader3K]

I think giving up Hardy for DeJesus would be too much, personally.

 

Your Fielder trade idea is pretty interesting, though I kind of feel like the Red Sox won't be ready to get rid of Big Papi after having just traded Manny away.

[joepepsi]

I'm a big fan of DeJesus, so would love to see him batting leadoff, then Weeks-Braun-Fielder-Hardy. KC has said they want to find more power from the OF. I'd try to work out something that sends Hart there for DeJesus as centerpieces to a trade. Use a platoon again at 3rd, keep Cameron. If part of the 3B platoon is Lamb or Branyan, then you'd have 3 lefties in the lineup most days.

[And That]

Brewerguy, check out the discussion on compensation earlier in this thread, starting around reply #345 or something like that.

 

The Royals would not "throw in" Joakim Soria in any deal. He's incredibly valuable to them. To get him, you'd probably have to trade Jeffress along with Salome. At least. Hardy, Jeffress, Salome and some other guys for DeJesus and Soria is a bad, bad deal for the Brewers.

 

And I disagree that the Brewers are in need of any sort of a re-build. If they get one very good starting pitcher and a third baseman with good OBP, they are a solid playoff contender. Even as the team is, they're capable of around 80-85 wins. Do you think about trading Prince due to his defensive liabilities and the fact you're only going to have him for another three years? Sure, but that doesn't mean you're rebuilding.

[Tbadder]

Why would the Red Sox want the Sumo-Prince. They went through the Vaughn debacle once before. If we got that from them it would be totally one-sided trade--something I can't see, but I'll be crossing my fingers.

[jjfanec]

The Red Sox are looking at moving Youk to 3B and bringing in Teixeira, so they could be a possibility. I think they value defense up there so I dont know if they would be excited about Prince playing 1B. However, I dont think they is anyway we would get Ellsbury, Buchholz, Bard and another prospect. I think Boston could be a good trade partner though. I just dont know how the trade would add up. If they really did want Prince we could get a starting CF and SP, however we would still have holes at 3B and 1B

[bjkrautk]

If the Yankees are that interested, would a 'sign-and-trade' scenario make sense?

 

(I'd rather get a marginal prospect - one of those plus arm / high ceiling types - than letting him walk.)

[yoyo49]

Ortiz is signed through 2010 with a club option for 2011

[fleehaw]

If we were to deal Hart for Dejesus, we'd be right back here trying to figure out how we fill our void in RF. Neither Gillespie or Cain are ready yet and the FA class of outfielders is quite shallow.

 

The idea for this is to pick up Cameron's option for '09. Your OF would consist of Braun, Cameron, and DeJesus. DeJesus is signed for 3 more years (actually 2 yrs with a reasonable option).

 

At this time, I'd say it's a very real possibility that Cameron will be offered arbitration after '09. Also, Cain & Gilespie would have another year in the minors under their belt which would give a better indication on where they'll be in '10.

[brewerguy71]

I say that Sawx trade there as a DH fill for the Red Sox, not for Fielder to play 1B. Ortiz' injuries and his age are a sure ticket for him out of Boston, unless he takes a huge pay cut and a shorter contract. My mistake on Ortiz. For some reason I thought that this was the last year of his contract. He must have signed an extension.

 

I dont necessarily see the need for a big time rebuild, but the loss of Sheets and Sabathia is going to have a huge impact on the team. So much so, that imo, the team will struggle to get to .500. If Melvin could resign himself to this idea, why not start a mini rebuild? Fielder will be priced of Milwaukee soon. Why not deal him when he is still cheap for the recieving team, and still valuable enough to get a huge prospect return?

 

And on the KC propsed deal of Hardy/Salome/Jeffress (And That's) add on.... for DeJesus and Soria....the defense is improved dramatically, you get a bona fide leadoff hitter and a closer. You are right though that they wouldnt just "throw in" Soria but they might throw in Ramon Ramirez, who could then close for us. Hardy and Salome for DeJesus and Ramirez would be a very attractive trade to me. Also, I wouldnt see it as a major loss to lose Jeffress or Salome at this point. Yes Jeffress has the makings of a good closer but the lack of a plus secondary pitch doesnt really impress me. And Ive already touched on my thoughts on Salome.

[yoshii8]

Why would the Red Sox want the Sumo-Prince. They went through the Vaughn debacle once before. If we got that from them it would be totally one-sided trade--something I can't see, but I'll be crossing my fingers.

Umm, go look at Mo Vaughns stats w/ the Red Sox, http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/vaughmo01.shtml, he won a league MVP award, finished in the top 5 voting twice, and had MVP votes every other full season he played with them. I think most teams would give up a lot to get a top young slugger like Prince Fielder, even if his career does end up like Mo Vaughns.

[liveforoctober]

Pick up the option, no question.

 

With the inevitable loss of Sheets and Sabathia... we are going to have to play some pretty serious defense next year if we are even going to sniff the post-season race. At this stage of the game... unless his money is required to sing CC... we can't afford to lose, arguably, our best defender when Suppan, Bush, and McClung are going to be starting 60% of our games next year.

[TooLiveBrew]

I truley don't understand why people keep giving Cameron a pass in the NLDS. The play was routine...plain and simple.......he dropped it.

 

He is a solid defender but please take off your Camgogs.

 

That was not a routine play at all. It wasn't the hardest play in the world, but calling it "routine" doesn't pass the eye test. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ennder]

I dont necessarily see the need for a big time rebuild, but the loss of Sheets and Sabathia is going to have a huge impact on the team. So much so, that imo, the team will struggle to get to .500

 

going into last year people thought we had an 85-90 win team. We lost Sheets and that is it and probably will have a few upgrades here and there and now we are going to struggle to reach .500?

 

The offense underperformed last year almost across the board and I expect us to score more runs, give up more runs and still be in that 85-90 win range even without Sheets and Sabathia as long as Gallardo/Parra/Bush stay healthy.

[BADGERJOBOB]

The OBP problem comes mostly down to Hart and Hall. If we can upgrade Hall at 3B and Hart, Fielder, Braun and Weeks move towards their expected OBP we should be fine with Cameron. There just isn't some magical .370 OBP full time CF out there that we can replace him with easily. I'm not even sure there is a .350 OBP guy. The best way to upgrade the team OBP is probably going to be to find a 3B which we need regardless.

No there is not an ideal cf replacement. Melvin will need to be a little creative. Hart can be moved to center if we decide to go after an Ibanez or Giles type of player for right field for a 2 year period. Or Hart could be traded or packaged in a trade for a player like an Andre Either where we then go and pick up a Kotsay or Garrett Anderson to man center field with the idea of getting them at a price cheaper then 10 million. And yes I know Kotsay and Anderson are not as good as Cameron but a cheaper Kotsay might be a better fit than Cameron depending on who you get for right field and how much money you save to go fill another hole.

 

Basically what I am saying is that Melvin will not be fielding the same team next year. He will go out and get a left handed bat and he will figure out a way to get 1 or 2 additional higher obp players. To achieve this, someone has to go. Cameron with an option of 10 million has a greater chance of not coming back than our younger cheaper players on this team. There is no denying that changes will be made.

[Ennder]

who are we going to sign for the 90 games Kotsay is hurt for http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

 

Yeah of course we can trade for a different alignment in the OF but I doubt we'll find something better overall than just keeping Cameron for a year. He is a bargain at that price so even if we just extend him and trade him I'm fine with that.

 

I would also add that Hart is an average at best fielder in RF, I think he would really struggle as a CF though his offense might offset that issue in CF as opposed to corner OF position.

[reillymcshane]

Ennder, I think you nailed it.

 

This team was expected to win 85-90 games last year. The offense underperformed - hart, fielder, hall, weeks - even braun had weaker stats from 2006. only Hardy improved - and not by tons. Let these guys - young guys entering their prime - go at it again. Let Cameron have a full year - i'll take a quality defensive CF who hits .240 and 30 HR any day of the week - even for $10 million - and especially when the options are weak.

 

That leaves pitching. Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Suppan, McClung - it's not sexy. It won't be as good as 2008. But Bush showed great strides after a horrible start, Gallardo will be back, and Parra will hopefully mature. Even mcclung showed some promise. It's not perfect, by any means, but assuming no CC or sheets, I can live with it, with the gamble that the offense rebounds. I think that's a good gamble - especially with Cameron in CF.

 

I'd rather the team sign some key role players for good money - perhaps take a flyer on a pitcher coming back from injury - than spend a ton on mediocre FAs (or way overspend on a good ones).

[logan82]

BADGERJOBOB wrote:

Basically what I am saying is that Melvin will not be fielding the same team next year. He will go out and get a left handed bat and he will figure out a way to get 1 or 2 additional higher obp players. To achieve this, someone has to go. Cameron with an option of 10 million has a greater chance of not coming back than our younger cheaper players on this team. There is no denying that changes will be made.

I think there is a good chance we field a team very similar, at least on offense, next year.

We were looking for that same left handed bat all last off season as well. $10M will be cheaper in the long run than giving up multiple prospects for a marginally better player.

[dadofandrew]

Kotsay is damaged goods at this point. He's nice depth, but he's very unlikely to ever get 500 AB's again. Garret Anderson in CF? I did not think he could remotely play CF anymore.