Cameron's option picked up (see reply #128)

[Ennder]

Ressurecting this old thread rather than just starting a new one just to get a perspective on what people thought of the signing last year. Do you guys want Cameron back next season? I personally think he did a great job and would love to see him back unless we somehow find a LH high OBP player to play CF.

 

Fangraphs rated him the best free agent bargain of 2008.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...years-free-agent-bargain/

 

 

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Moderator note: Since the off-season discussion has taken off, I've split this discussion into a thread of its own. Here's the thread Ennder refers to (now locked): Brewers sign Mike Cameron (1yr/$6.22 mil + 2009 Team Option)

 

--1992casey

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[PrinceFielder28]

Unless we find some better via trade I want him over Gywnn Jr any day. As much as his offense frustrated at times, he made up for that in the field with some great plays.

[OglivieHomePerm]

Ironic that this tread came up this morning....I'm in the process of taping Game 1 of the NLDS to DVD, and I just watched the play that Cameron ALMOST made in the 3rd inning on the ball hit into the gap that scored the first 2 runs for the Phillies. That was a tough play, but one that Cameron is certainly capable of making. If he hangs onto that ball, that game takes on a whole different complexion, considering that would have been the 3rd out.

 

That play aside, I really enjoyed watching Cameron patrol center field this season....especially after watching Bill Hall learn on the job in 2007, and the likes of Brady Clark prior to Hall. I think that 10 million is a fair rate for Cameron, and have no problem with the Brewers picking up the option.

[Oldcity]

Obviously he won't be the same bargain next year considering he'll be one year older and more expensive, but probably not as much as it seems--he won't be missing most of April due to a suspension in 2009. He helped the defense immensely, so I'd like to have him back unless a better option became available (highly unlikely IMO).

[yoshii8]

I was very happy with his performance this past season, I think he brought great CF defense, and provided what I thought he would on offense. He also seemed to be a positive influence in the clubhouse and in the community.

 

I'd love to see him back, I think he is a bargain at 1 year 10 million.

[yoyo49]

http://www.fangraphs.com/...years-free-agent-bargain/

It seems as though Brewer fans are split on whether to pick up Cameron's $10 M option for next year. I feel picking up his option is far better than the alternatives--promoting somebody from within the organization, signing a free agent CF, or trading for a CF. That somebody from the organization would likely be Gwynn. He is a 4th outfielder at best, and his .330 OBP at AAA doesn't make up for his complete lack of power. The free agent CF class is headlined by Mark Kotsay and Jim Edmonds. Trading for a CF comparable to Cameron would cost a top-tier prospect or an impact major leaguer in return. Cameron is solid defensively and can produce runs at the plate. I hope Melvin picks up his option. Your thoughts?

[Fatter than Joey]

I think here at least, a lot of the talk declining Cam's option was centered around signing CC -- I hope Cameron gets resigned.

[JoeHova]

I'd pick up his option. If the Brewers find somebody better through trade or FA, they could always trade him, a la the Yankees with Gary Sheffield a few years ago. Cameron is getting old, but other teams would definitely still be interested in him on a one year deal. So, either way, he should help the Brewers next year, imo.

[Ennder]

I'd add that I'd like to see him get more days off next year if we do keep him. I know the entire team slumped down the stretch last year but Cameron has a history of it with just a .727 OPS in Sept/Oct in his career compared to a .788 overall. I can only assume this comes from wearing down physically as the season goes on.

[JohnBriggs12]

Doesn't paying $10 million (when you don't have to) to a 36 year old CF who struck out 142 times in just 444 AB's on a team loaded with free swinging RH bats bother anyone other than me? Never mind that he was brutal down the stretch.

 

Yes he showed good power and plays a defensive position and well (though not nearly to the standard he set in his prime), but so did Jose (K) Hernandez back when he was nearly run out of town for striking out at a similar rate and yes he walked a few times but so did Jose. Would anyone have wanted to pay Jose $10 million?

 

I know the current alternatives aren't there but let's explore them before we pay a guy who wasn't the solution but part of the problem as the team was struggling down the stretch.

[nate82]

Over at Fangraphs they have named Mike Cameron as last year's Free Agent bargain. Link to article.

[Ennder]

I think the people who are hung up on strike outs and ignore all the other things about a player are just a dying breed on the site JohnBriggs. Not that I completely disagree with you, if there is a high OBP alternative I'd gladly take it. I'd love to bring in Brian Giles as an example but not sure how the OF defense would work out since I don't think Hart can handle CF.

 

Calling Cameron part of the problem is stretching it though. Hart and Hall were by far the biggest positional problems with this team this season. Cameron was probably the 3rd most valuable positional player on the team behind Braun and Hardy.

[Invader3K]

Barring needing that money for a big free agent signing (like CC Sabathia) or trading for someone younger and better, I don't see why Cameron shouldn't be brought back next year.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Where are you getting a Gold Glove caliber CF with power and a decent OBP for 1 yr/10 mil? On a team full of awful defensive players its nice to have on guy that plays solid defense. I will be very disappointed if we dont bring Cam back.

[kramnoj]

Would anyone have wanted to pay Jose $10 million?

 

This is a bad argument. Nobody would have paid Jose that money, because that wasn't the kind of money paid for players of Joses' caliber in 2002. As to the other part of your argument, are you talking about his last year with the Brewers? Because Jose was probably the 2nd best hitter on the Brewers that year, and had good-very good hitting numbers for a SS. Were you happier with the hitting performance of Royce Clayton the next year, who struck out half as often but OPSed .634?

 

I know the current alternatives aren't there but let's explore them before we pay a guy who wasn't the solution but part of the problem as the team was struggling down the stretch.

 

Plenty of people have explored alternatives here. As far as players in FA, it doesn't look good. We could take on a bad long term contract like Gary Matthews or Juan Pierre, but I don't see how that improves the Brewers. The best alternative that would be the hardest to quantify would be a Podsednik/Clark type player who hasn't yet seen significant major league action. I'm sure that Melvin and Ash are looking for those players to see if they are freely available or would be cheap acquisitions.

[TooLiveBrew]

This is the write-up from the linked FanGraphs article:

 

Mike Cameron: 1 year at $7 million with $10 million team option for 2009

Signed to provide some outfield defense at a bit of power, Cameron exceeded expectations for the Brewers, having a terrific season at age 35 and helping push Milwaukee into the playoffs. Injuries and a suspension limited him to just 120 games, but that makes his 1.42 WPA/LI all the more impressive when you consider he racked it up in just 508 plate appearances. When you combine average to above average center field defense with a bat that's worth 1.5 wins over an average hitter, you have a +4 win player. Based on Cameron's 2008 performance, he was worth between $15 and $20 million on the free market, or more than twice what he actually made. Toss in the team option that now looks like a no-brainer, and Cameron was truly one of the best signings of the winter.

 

 

The arguments that Cameron was somehow part of a larger problem that needs to be addressed this offseason continue to puzzle me. Even with a slight but expected decline as he gets one year older, Cameron is easily worth his $10M option.

[jjfanec]

I really dont know who else we could go out to get, so I am inclined to say we keep Cameron, but one name that I am sure will be thrown around is Coco Crisp. He is not great but he is relatively cheap. If Melvin believes he can use the money elsewhere I would be interested in Crisp. His OPS is lower than Cameron, but his contract is cheaper and he is a switch hitter who had a nice year hitting LH this year. I do not know how good his defense is but he would be that lead off guy a lot of people want.

[BADGERJOBOB]

I would be extremely disappionted if we still had Cameron for next year as that more than likely means that we did very little or next to nothing to upgrade our marjor weaknesses of low OBP and a predominantly right handed lineup. I am not debating that Cameron is not worth $10 million but he is far from a great player and a player who unlike most of the current roster is on the down side of his career.

[Ennder]

The OBP problem comes mostly down to Hart and Hall. If we can upgrade Hall at 3B and Hart, Fielder, Braun and Weeks move towards their expected OBP we should be fine with Cameron. There just isn't some magical .370 OBP full time CF out there that we can replace him with easily. I'm not even sure there is a .350 OBP guy. The best way to upgrade the team OBP is probably going to be to find a 3B which we need regardless.

[logan82]

Here is a sheet(link at the bottom) I made up a few weeks back looking at strikeouts and other stats vs runs scored. I ranked all the teams 1-30 with the least K's being #1 and the most #30. If runs are related to the stat the points should make a line starting in the lower left corner and going to the upper right corner. The closer to that ideal line the more a stat is related to runs scored. What you see is good strikeout teams will rank all over the place in runs. Good OPS teams rank almost where they do for runs. To me that means that srikeouts have very little to do with runs and we should be looking at OPS instead.

 

Link

[PlayerHader]

You have to think that moving Cameron at 1 yr 10mil would be pretty easy if a solid defender, high OBP guy comes along some where. I'm all for exercising that option.

[And That]

Cameron must have good value on the trade market. Even if you're sure one of those left-handed, plus defense, .360-.380 OBP center fielders will fall in to your lap at some point this offseason, don't you pick up Cameron's option anyway? I'm sure at the very least the Yankees would take him off our hands for a reliever and a prospect.

[clancyphile]

Cameron must have good value on the trade market. Even if you're sure one of those left-handed, plus defense, .360-.380 OBP center fielders will fall in to your lap at some point this offseason, don't you pick up Cameron's option anyway? I'm sure at the very least the Yankees would take him off our hands for a reliever and a prospect.

Think of another option: Cameron's played half his games in an extreme pitchers park (Petco) until 2008. He could be a decent corner OF bat as well if the Brewers reach a point of extreme desperation vis-a-vis third base.

[And That]

Clancy, neither Ryan Braun nor Corey Hart (I'm not even sure which one you're alluding to) will ever play another inning of third base in their pro careers, unless the game is out of hand or we hire LaRussa.

[edod]

There seems to be a shared thread of reason running through each of the yea's and nah's . Most of the yea's cite he is a solid defender, provides a solid slugging percentage and is at least a fair price. The win share stat seems to reinforce this notion. The nah's point, which is also my point is that he has good over-all value, but in the context of the Brewers his value is reduced becuase his weaknesses parallel much of the rest of team. Perhaps the arguement should be expaned to the rest of the team. If Melvin can shore up the lack of obp and lefty hitters else where, does Cameron then become a no brainer? Because Camerson is basically a 1-2 year rental, I think the nah's consider CF to be a natural position to address the weeknesses, especially when you consider the financial realities of the Brewers. Just because we have a new owner and (had) a 90 million payroll doesn't suddenly change the fact that Brewers are the smallest market in baseball.