Milwaukee Bucks Thread 2008–2009 (part 1)

[nodakfan17]

Who are the other six teams that don't have representation?

 

The other six teams with out an NBA All-Star Weekend representative are Charlotte, Washington, Golden State, Minnesota, Sacramento, and Utah

 

 

The NBA does a great job of promoting its All-Star Weekend. Even casual sports fans might tune in- come on, who doesn't like seeing a great dunk, right? I just wish that the Bucks would get some credit. There are a total of 60 participant slots (when injury replacements are included) between the 5 events that I listed above. Not even one slot went to a Milwaukee Buck. OKC, a team with half has many wins as the Bucks, has 3 participants (albeit, talented young guys). Even some WNBA players are invited to participate in the Shooting Stars contest. Yes, that's right, the Detroit Shock have more representation than the Milwaukee Bucks at the NBA All-Star Weekend. I'm glad to see good teams get rewarded with multiple participants, but when seemingly everybody (even Terrell Owens in the celebrity game) gets an invite to Phoenix, it leads me to ask- what gives?

[RockCoCougars]

latest trade rumor via 1250

 

to Milwaukee: LaFrentz, Outlaw, Sergio Rodriguez, draft pick

 

To Portland: Jefferson and Ridnour.

Horrible. Even without Redd and Bogut, I think this team can make the playoffs. If Jefferson can start to step up, Villanueva can pick up some of the scoring, and the young guys can continue to develop, this team could be clicking pretty good in April. Bogut might be back as well.

 

I know the armchair G.M.'s won't think much of my opinion, but exactly who would they be clearing cap space for? Who is going to want to come to Milwaukee outside of mediocre talent that is overpaid for a la Bobby Simmons? Speaking of Simmons, I really don't think Jefferson's contract is that bad considering they were able to dump Simmons in the deal.

[homer]

"I know the armchair G.M.'s won't think much of my opinion, but exactly who would they be clearing cap space for?"

 

Sessions and Villanueva.

[Gobias Industries]

Cap space also allows you to basically take on players for free if a team needs to clear salary, a la Camby to LAC trade last summer, or get draft picks for nothing when a team has to sell the. off (Suns in recent years).

 

I think I read this on RealGM the last time I was lurking, but if the Bucks stay put and don't even make a move this week they will have to let CV walk and trade their first rounder. That is suicide for a team that should be in rebuild mode.

 

This trade, along with the fact that Gadz and Redd will be expiring in 2011, would probably make Milwaukee one of the more desirable rebuilding teams to be a GM of.

[davego]

Its going to come down to a choice (at this point) between Sessions and CV.

[BrewCrewForever]

I'm not the biggest Bucks or even basketball fan but if they don't find a way to keep Ramon Sessions they are just plain stupid. That kid can play. Trade Jefferson, Ridnour or even Charlie V if need be but keep Sessions and resign the guy. He has me even wanting to spend a little cash to go see a Bucks game. When Redd and Bogut come back next year with Sessions starting at PG they could have a nice little "big 3".

[JJHardy7]

The Bucks are right up against the luxury tax limit next year and Sessions and CV are both free agents. Think of it along the lines of dumping Suppan to be able to re-sign Sabathia.

The 'Larry Bird' rule though also applies here. The Bucks can pay these two more than any team AND they aren't free agents. They are restricted free agents, which means the Bucks can match any offer a team makes. The luxury tax isn't a slam dunk either -- from what I've read it only applies if the league is above the luxury tax. My guess is that it is, but given the economy I don't see teams shelling out money. I think there's a good chance Sessions or CV remain in Milwaukee without moving a player due to the fact that I don't see them getting huge money...good money yes, but if MLB is like the NBA with the economy the mid-level players (Sessions and CV) will be hurt the most.

I do think trading RJ is the best option now. I do want to get value for him since the Bucks did give up a nice young player for him. I loved the trade at the time, but I now feel that either the Bucks have a long-term plan that we don't know about (I hope), or they just weren't thinking. I hope the Bucks have an idea of what the current contract wants of each player are and if they can't meet those wants one or both should be traded. I would trade CV now and would rather keep Sessions. I agree with other posts that it's more difficult to find a 4, but CV is a 'soft' 4 and given the teams roster I think they do not need a 'soft' 4. Trading CV would also be trading selling high...

[RockCoCougars]

Yeah, but the only way trading Jefferson is going to help them sign Sessions and Villanueva is the fact that Kohl will have less of his own money invested in salary plus the fact he won't be running up against the tax. Dumping salary at this point doesn't guarantee anything. My guess is they wouldn't have a huge problem moving Jefferson in the summer if need be. Why blow up the team at this point?

[Gobias Industries]

Why blow up the team at this point?

Why shouldn't we though? The team, even when full healthy, has no shot in hell at winning a championship. I'm not saying making this trade would make us contenders, it won't. It'll make us worse this year (probably not by much). We still don't have an alpha dog on the team, and you have to find one through the draft. But this trade would put us on the right track.

[homer]

Nowitzki is a 'soft' 4 too.

[davego]

I wonder how important it is for the Bucks to sneak in the playoffs and get a couple of home playoff games? Would that be worth trying to ride the group out and make deals in the off-season?

[trwi7]

My guess is they wouldn't have a huge problem moving Jefferson in the summer if need be.

The problem with trading Jefferson in summer is we have to take salary into next year meaning we lose Jefferson, Sessions and Villanueva and only get what we got for Jefferson.

[trwi7]

The luxury tax isn't a slam dunk either -- from what I've read it only applies if the league is above the luxury tax.

The luxury tax is for teams that go over it. This year it was set at $71.15 million, any team over that salary has to pay the tax. So if you're at $76.15 milion in salary, you're paying another $5 million in the tax and you're not getting the revenue from teams that are over the cap.

[RyDogg66]

"I know the armchair G.M.'s won't think much of my opinion, but exactly who would they be clearing cap space for?"

Sessions and Villanueva.

So then in 2 years this team can be trading them for "bad contracts" to make way to sign the next average player to a max deal?

 

It just gets so old hearing about all the max deals that are handed out to tall stiffs or guys who not only arent good now, never really were good when they signed their deals. Handing a max deal to Lebron is a no-brainer, but then people start giving them out to anyone. I know it isnt a max deal, but what the hell were the bucks thinking giving any money to Dan Gadzuric?

[homer]

It just gets so old hearing about all the max deals that are handed out to tall stiffs or guys who not only arent good now, never really were good when they signed their deals. Handing a max deal to Lebron is a no-brainer, but then people start giving them out to anyone.

Welcome to the life of an NBA GM.

[Diskono]

Yeah, but the only way trading Jefferson is going to help them sign Sessions and Villanueva is the fact that Kohl will have less of his own money invested in salary plus the fact he won't be running up against the tax. Dumping salary at this point doesn't guarantee anything. My guess is they wouldn't have a huge problem moving Jefferson in the summer if need be. Why blow up the team at this point?

We certainly could trade Jefferson in the summer, but we need to get an expiring contract back. An 09/10 expiring contract won't do us any good, and then we lose 2 of Jefferson/Sessions/Villanueva. Unless Kohl decides to invest a lot more than he is now, there's no way we can keep more than 2 of them unless we can somehow trade Ridnour and Gadz alone for expiring contracts (which will never happen).

[trwi7]

It just gets so old hearing about all the max deals that are handed out to tall stiffs or guys who not only arent good now, never really were good when they signed their deals.

So you think Sessions and Villanueva are going to get max deals? So $15 million per year for each?

 

I would also say Sessions and Villanueva are good now and are still young enough where they can improve some more.

[RockCoCougars]

I would guess that both Sessions and Villanueva could be had for about 3 yrs. 20 million or so unless they play off the charts for the rest of the season. I guess it all depends on how crazy the teams get with the offer sheets.

[RyDogg66]

It just gets so old hearing about all the max deals that are handed out to tall stiffs or guys who not only arent good now, never really were good when they signed their deals.

So you think Sessions and Villanueva are going to get max deals? So $15 million per year for each?

 

I would also say Sessions and Villanueva are good now and are still young enough where they can improve some more.

No I do not think they will get max deals. I was speaking mainly of guys like Lafrentz and Richard Jefferson. But I will not be surprised if Sessions and Villanueva get Gadzuric type deals that make them the bain of most Bucks fans existence for the course of their deals.

[trwi7]

No I do not think they will get max deals. I was speaking mainly of guys like Lafrentz and Richard Jefferson. But I will not be surprised if Sessions and Villanueva get Gadzuric type deals that make them the bain of most Bucks fans existence for the course of their deals.

Bucks fans should be ecstatic if they get Gadzuric type deals.

[RyDogg66]

No I do not think they will get max deals. I was speaking mainly of guys like Lafrentz and Richard Jefferson. But I will not be surprised if Sessions and Villanueva get Gadzuric type deals that make them the bain of most Bucks fans existence for the course of their deals.

Bucks fans should be ecstatic if they get Gadzuric type deals.

Im sure the GM that handed Gadz his money was thinking the same thing.

[trwi7]

Im sure the GM that handed Gadz his money was thinking the same thing.

Big differences.

 

1. The economy. No team is going to go overboard spending.

2. Sessions and CV are actually good, while Gadz never was.

[sveumrules]

here's something that might get me interested in watching the nba all star festivities again. take the top two vote getters at each position in each conference. they play one on one for the right to start the all star game. then the winner at each position from each conference goes head to head for bragging/all nba rights. with the one on one nature of the game now and all the competition amongst the top stars it seems like this would maybe encourage a little more effort than the skills challenge/david robinson throwing up half court shots...

[JJHardy7]

Nowitzki is a 'soft' 4 too.

 

The Bucks don't need a Nowitzki if they have Redd. Would the take him for the right price? Sure, but we've seen how far Dallas has gone in the playoffs. If Redd is gone, Dirk/CV would be needed to score. If Dirk had a legit big guy in Dallas, his numbers would be even better and it's the same with Redd. I guess I think of it this way -- how would you defend the Bucks (when healthy)? They lack outside shooting to a certain degree without Redd. I wouldn't give Redd any easy 3s...now if they had a legit big guy that the offense ran through that would be much more difficult than it is now.

 

The luxury tax is for teams that go over it. This year it was set at $71.15 million, any team over that salary has to pay the tax. So if you're at $76.15 milion in salary, you're paying another $5 million in the tax and you're not getting the revenue from teams that are over the cap.

 

I'm by no means claiming to be an expert on this. The league sets the luxury tax based on BRI. If zero teams in the league qualify, there won't be a tax. My point goes back to the fact that the economy isn't doing all that well and teams will be less willing to spend. This IMO could mean that teams that can get some cap space can benefit. Most teams won't have a lot of space for years due to long-term contracts.

 

trwi7 -- you seem to be the bf.net expert on this stuff. Is this site below legit?

 

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q16

 

It seems to go into some nice detail about how it all works, but again I'm not sure if it's 100% correct

[ILuvDaBush]

Well a core of:

 

PG Sessions

SG Redd

SF/PF Villy

C Bogut

 

would seem to be the ideal situation. Sessions and Bogut are best when in close proximity to the basket while Redd/Villy can sit on the perimeter, waiting for the kick-out. Joe Alexander/RJ bounty/ '09 #1 go towards complementing those pieces. Sessions gets to the basket at will, so perimeter scorers are ideal, especially because, presently, he is not himself one.