Milwaukee Bucks Thread 2008–2009 (part 1)

[Oldcity]

Mcneal is currently rocking the #74 spot on ESPN's draft coverage and should probably only be discussed in reference to the D-League or Turkish leagues.

I'm probably overstepping my bounds here--the NBA is a distant third for me in pro sports--but why should we expect McNeal's stock not to rise substantially?

 

McNeal 2009: 20 ppg, 49% fg, 3.8 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 2.1 steals, .8 blocks.

 

Wade 2003: 21.5 ppg, 50.1% fg, 4.4 assists, 6.3 rebounds, 2.2 steals, 1.3 blocks

 

Couple things I take away from that. One: Dwyane Wade was absurdly good. Two: McNeal really seems like a not-so-poor man's Wade. Wade was the fifth pick in perhaps the strongest NBA draft of all time, yet McNeal won't be drafted? Where's the logic in that? McNeal is the leading candidate at this time for Big East POY. If he wins it and continues to get national attention, do you really think he won't get drafted?

[Dmiles23]

I'm still not sold on Griffin and his defense maybe he will improve his defense and become a great player I'm just not sold on it.

 

I could live with a guy putting up 25 and 12 every night and only being average on D. A guy with his size, strength, and athletic ability should be able to get those numbers nightly, if he stays healthy. I see him as a little better Carlos Boozer. And if Boozer were healthy, I'd love to have him on the Bucks, even though he plays average D. Of course he's not LeBron's territory, but I'd put him up with Rose and Howard (on draft night).

 

I am not a fan of Mullens at all.

 

That's how I was the first couple times I've watched him. But as of late, he has been much more productive, and he moves very well for a 7'er. I obviously wouldn't take him extremely high in the draft. But if the Bucks had a pick around #10-12, I'd love to have him.

 

Based on pure upside, I would be all over Demar DeRozan. My only question does he want to take a paycut amongst other cut fringe benefits (not the least of which is location) and declare for the draft?

 

Ha... you saying USC pays out more than the NBA?! For a second I thought you misspoke and were talking about Brandon Jennings, who went to Europe to play. Then I read it again, and came to the conclusion that you were taking a swipe at USC. I like it.

[Dmiles23]

Couple things I take away from that. One: Dwyane Wade was absurdly good. Two: McNeal really seems like a not-so-poor man's Wade. Wade was the fifth pick in perhaps the strongest NBA draft of all time, yet McNeal won't be drafted? Where's the logic in that? McNeal is the leading candidate at this time for Big East POY. If he wins it and continues to get national attention, do you really think he won't get drafted?

I'm not a big Marquette watcher, as I've only seen them play maybe 3-4 times this year, but in my opinion there isn't any way McNeal doesn't get drafted. I don't think he's a first rounder, but he will get drafted... and I'd put my money early in the second round. The guy can play. The thing with him is, he's a little small, 6'2'', to play SG in the NBA. And, at least to my knowledge, hasn't spent much, if any, time in college playing the point. Wade had played a little point at Marquette, even with Deiner there.

[yoshii8]

I see McNeal as at least a good sixth man in the NBA, he has transformed himself into a great shooter, and he has always been a very good defender. I think he will be a 2nd round pick, that will eventually play a pretty big role on a good NBA team. I don't see a problem w/ his height, he is 6-2 or 6-3 and very athletic, so I would probably compare him to a Delonte West or Ben Gordon type player.

[Gobias Industries]

A nucleus of Westbrook, Green, Durant, and Griffin would be a darn good team for years to come.

Man, I wanted Westbrook so badly for the Bucks, and I believe that Hammond and Skiles really wanted him as well. He's a stud. And yes, any team should kill for that nucleus. As long as they keep their core and don't give out any bad contracts, they'll be a powerhouse in 3-4 years.

[FVBrewerFan]

I'm sure he won't go in the lottery or maybe even the first round, but I think Jerel McNeal would be a great fit for the Bucks. He definitely seems to fit what Hammond/Skiles are looking for in a guard.

Interesting, because I think McNeal = Charlie Bell as far as what type of NBA player he will be. Probably a bit "better" since he's more athletic overall. A tweener, sure, but the guy can defend, shoot, get in the paint, and handle the rock good enough to play PG in spurts. His ideal team would be someone with a big PG (like the Heat used to do with Wade.) Because then McNeal could play the 2 on offense but defend the opposing team's PG on defense.

 

I think the hidden gem on Marquette is Hayward. He translates very well o an NBA small forward- especially a run-and-gun type team. Won't surprise me if he comes out this year.

 

Matthews can play in the NBA, but I don't think he does any one thing very well- except shoot free throws that is. He would have to be striclty a 2, no way he can run the point.

[bbrauch2000]

I'm not dismissing Mcneal as being useless at the NBA level, but he is the type of guy you grab in the second round and hope that his improvement from behind the arc hasnt been a mirage. Most of the shorter 2 guards in the league are either fantastic scorers, have point guard skills or both. A guy like Jason Terry can be excused on defense because he is such a threat on offense. There just isnt a good comparison in the NBA to what he does so he is hard to project, which is something that NBA GM's do not like. Charlie Bell is a decent comparison, but he wasnt much of a scorer in college. He also never had an 18% jump in his 3 point shooting for half a season either. Remember that while Charlie has been solid for the bucks in a back up role, he was playing all over the place and living from a suitcase for years before he caught on.

 

He should aspire to be someone like Roger Mason Jr. Sneak into the league, work on your game for 3 or 4 years before sneaking into a starting lineup. I would just be worried that teams won't be aggressively looking for a 6'3" shooting guard whose greatest benefit is as a defender

[yoshii8]

Andrew Bogut is out for the season, I think that might be the nail in the coffin for the 08-09 season. I think they need to start giving Alexander and LRMAM a bigger role, and try to improve their salary cap situation by shedding a few contracts if possible.

[Gobias Industries]

Yep, this is the best for the team longterm. Bogut's deal kicks in next year, so no reason to have it linger over. As I said before, I'd like to see Bogut stay in Milwaukee this summer and really work on his game (jump shooting and conditioning). He owes it to the team.

 

Now, if Hammond goes out and makes a big "win-now" move, I want him gone. What should be done for the rest of the year is very cut-and-dried. Play the young guys, trade RJ for expirings/picks, and hopefully get lucky in the lottery.

[Dmiles23]

I was just looking at the NBA standing to see how badly the Bucks would have to do to move up in the draft, and I realized... there are A LOT of bad teams in the NBA this year. My estimate for Bucks wins this year is 30, and that would probably put them around the 8th-9th pick in the draft this year. Last year, 30 wins puts you in the 7th spot. In 07, 30 wins gets you the 4th pick. In 06, 30 wins gets you the 6th pick. In 05, 30 wins gets you the 6th pick. And in 04, 30 wins gets you the 7th pick. So this is a horrible year to be trying to tank.

 

The sad part is, the Western Conference top 9 teams are so good, that the bottom teams don't stand a chance against most of them. Oklahoma City, Memphis, Sacramento, LA Clippers, Minnesota, and Golden St(especially with all the injuries they've had) have no chance to compete in the West. The East probably has 3 of the 4 top teams in the league, but after that it's anyone's game.

 

Looking at the Bucks schedule, they play 52 games against the East and 30 against the West. So my question is... what would the Bucks record be if they played in the West? Are they really THAT much better than the likes of OKC, Mem, Sac, LA, Min, and GS? To me, having an unbalanced schedule like that may hurt the bottom teams in the West, but it definitely makes it easier for them to get higher picks, so, if they are smart, an easier time to rebuild. And the West being the stronger conference is not a new thing.

 

Looking back at the last 5 seasons, the West has had 28 50+ win teams, compared to the East's 12. But it's not the same teams every year for the West. Over those 5 seasons, 12 of the 15 teams have won 50 or more games at least once. Compared to the East, where 6 of the 15 teams have(Detroit won 50+ each year). So it just seems that the East is stuck in mediocrity. And in my opinion, with the unbalanced schedule where Eastern conference teams play substancially more games agains the East, the East will be stuck in mediocrity for quite a few more years.

[ILuvDaBush]

I think Charlie V. has to be the biggest trade chip we have approaching the deadline. With his recent scoring proficiency, he has all but priced himself out of Milwaukee. If there is ANY way we could package him with Danny G, I think you have to cut bait. With the savings, sign Ramon and maybe Ridnour, though if we trade Charlie V, the scoring onus is going to then fall on Ridnour and his price tag is going to be inflated. Then again, if RJ gets the looks, you have to imagine he could have an inflated value, like when Glass Vin and Kidd went down and he was the Franchise.

 

All I know is...2009 doesn't look like the banner year I was expecting it to be for Wisconsin sports. Redd-Bogut... We knew we would live by our Olympiads, and I guess we shall also die by them, or the lack thereof.

[Diskono]

If the Bucks can somehow get rid of Gadzuric (and throw in Elson too, explaining that one is a translator for the other), whether he's packaged with Villanueva or Jefferson, I'd be ready to call the season a success. Audition some D-League all-stars, recall Illyasova, whatever. I'll keep watching.

[DatHoser]

The Bucks just traded Tyronn Lue to the Magic for Keith Bogans, FWIW.

 

LINK

[Diskono]

Eh, that works. Lue was actually having a somewhat respectable season, but we don't really have much use for 3 short PGs. Bogans should be better defensively.

[bbrauch2000]

Now the word is a potentially broken thumb for Ridnour? When it rains, it pours

[yoshii8]

Wow, this season has been crazy, first Redd, then Bogut, and now Ridnour, whats next? Its too bad, because I thought they looked really good when they had their full roster, and I think they could have possibly suprised someone in the first round.

 

I wonder what the plan is now? If we can't get rid of some contracts, I wouldn't mind seeing Hammond revisiting the deals to get Landry and Conley in return for Sessions and Villanueva, since they will both be RFA's at the end of the season. I'd also love to see RJ w/ Gadz (Fingers crossed) unloaded to a playoff team looking for a SF, for an expiring and a decent prospect. Maybe to Portland for Lafrentz and Outlaw/Webster. It is going to be a tough process for John Hammond, and I really hope he can fix it.

 

On another note, I see that Amare Stoudamire is available and I would love to get him, but I'm not sure that we have what it takes to get him. I think he would be a good fit w/ Bogut.

[davego]

At this rate Malik Allen is going to end up @ the point.

[Diskono]

Wow...at this point, we should consider switching sports. The Bucks have more Dutch forwards than PSV Eindhoven, maybe we should swap schedules with the Wave.

[Dmiles23]

At this rate Malik Allen is going to end up @ the point.

You know... it would be great entertainment to see Danny G play point for a night or 2. I don't think you could find more comedy than that on Comedy Central.

[endaround]

New Bradley Center promotion! First 100 attendees get to try out for a 10 day contract!

[bullox]

Ramon Sessions, 44 and 12. Giggity.

[Dmiles23]

Man, the Bucks look like they may be stuck between a rock and a hard place in the next couple weeks, as well as the offseason. The NBA trading deadline is 11 days away, and the Hammonds needs to get out his crystal ball and make some good decisions.

 

Richard Jefferson: In my opinion, it is a no brainer that he has to be traded. If they keep him, there is essentially no chance the Bucks can sign Villanueva or Sessions in the offseason. But are there any takers? They need to get an expiring contract back... and it would be nice to also get a draft pick from a contending team... but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Charlie Villanueva: Has been pretty spectacular in the '09 part of the season... but was pretty inconsistant in the '08 part. But his play of late, along with his MUCH bigger role in the offense, are making his price this summer go WAY up. But is his play of late going to be his future norm, or will he go back to his inconsistant play of the previous couple of seasons? Being a restricted free agent, the Bucks can match any offer made to him. But Hammonds needs to decide how high he is willing to go, and what the chances are someone will give him a contract offer higher than that. If he determines that there is a good chance a team will offer a contract higher than the Bucks are willing to match, CV should probably be traded before the deadline as well.

 

Ramon Sessions: Very similar to Villanueva in that he has been very inconsistant throughout his career, but his massivly increased minutes of late and through the end of the season will jack up his price substantially. He has shown great ability at times, but others he just disappears. He has no outside shot, but is able to easily get to the rim... which is something the Bucks need. Similar to Villanueva, he is a restricted free agent, and Hammonds needs to look at the same things with Sessions as Villanueva. Do you really want to give big bucks to a player with less than 100 games under his belt?

 

Call me stupid if you want, but if I was Hammonds, I'd almost look to gut this team... and trade all 3 of the above players. In my opinion, Villanueva and Sessions are going to probably get bigger contracts than they deserve, as they are still too inconsistant for my liking. If a trade offer is available where the Bucks recieve a nice, young player and picks... I'd take it. I'm just not comfortable offering either one of those 2 long term deals. It would have been nice if the Bucks would have never acquired Ridnour and allowed Sessions to run the point all year, just to see what they had in him. But it's too late for that.

 

But my whole point is, it's stupid for the Bucks to let these guys walk for nothing. If they feel they are not going to be able to sign them long term, or they feel they will get overpaid, they need to trade them for something... because they have value.

[TSack27]

In my opinion, Villanueva and Sessions are going to probably get bigger contracts than they deserve, as they are still too inconsistant for my liking....

 

... If they feel they are not going to be able to sign them long term, or they feel they will get overpaid, they need to trade them for something... because they have value.

Question for everyone, not just Dmiles23 - is the recent economy going to hit basketball like it has hit baseball? While I expect the LeBrons and DWades (aka Sabathias & Teixeiras) get their big contracts from the big markets, will the Villanueva and Sessions level players be gambling on the market read and end up "settling" for low-rate contracts like Varitek and Wolf?

 

Personally, I can't stomach the thought of paying $35 for upper deck tickets to a team that can pay a player $20M to not play, or when asking for $200+ to sit courtside yet wonder why a majority of their seats are empty when they don't regularly field an upper echelon team. Combined with a growing number of trades being based around expiring bad contracts, it has me believing basketball has the most messed financial structure among the major sports. Wonder if the current economic challenges of the country will inspire any market correction in basketball...

[davego]

My guess is that you would be right on. The 'big guys' will get paid; it's that second-level and marginal play that is going to struggle to find a payday.

 

As far as who to keep...I'd assume they will try to tie up either CV or RS. I like CV's game a bit more, but my guess is they simply can't go over the cap and will not be able to clear out RJ or Danny G (not including Bell). Really, this off-season is more digging out from under Harris.

[trwi7]

I don't see Villanueva and Sessions getting extremely overpaid for two reasons. The economy being one and the 2010 free agent class being another. There's a lot of teams looking for 2010 money so they can try to sign LeBron, Bosh, Amare, Johnson etc. I don't think anybody's going to way overpay because of that.