Milwaukee Bucks Thread 2008–2009 (part 1)

[Dmiles23]

There are a few second round picks on this team that managed to not go in the top 10 yet are pretty darn good players. I know it's much easier to win a championship with a top 10 type talent, but it doesn't HAVE to happen that way.

 

Take a look at the top teams in the league(.600+ Winning %) and look at where they got their better players:

San Antonio- Duncan(#1)

New Orleans- Paul(#4)

Houston- Yao(#1)

Phoenix- Stoudemire(#9)

Lakers- Bynum(#10) and Bryant(#13)- I know Charlotte drafted Bryant, but they drafted him with the intent to trade him.

Denver- Anthony(#3)

Portland- Oden(#1), Roy(#6), Aldridge(#2)

Utah- Williams(#3)

Orlando- Howard(#1)

Cleveland- Lebron(#1)

Detroit- NONE

Boston- Pierce(#10)

 

So of the top 12 teams in the league, 11 of them have a lottery pick as either their best, or one of the best players on the team. The only team that was able to assemble a winning team without a top draft pick was Detroit. I'm hoping that Hammonds doesn't think "Hey... this is how Detroit built their team, lets do that in Milwaukee." It's just hard to get top end tallent unless you draft it, especially if you are Milwaukee becasue no players want to come here in a trade or as a FA. But you do need top end tallent to win in this league. And Redd, Jefferson, and Ridnour aren't going to do that. And although Bogut is a good player, it's unfortunate that the year we had the #1 there wasn't a LeBron or Howard or Yao. Paul and Williams went in that draft, but that was really the only position we were set(or the team thought they were set) at with Ford and Williams.

[Robideaux]

The only team that was able to assemble a winning team without a top draft pick was Detroit. I'm hoping that Hammonds doesn't think "Hey... this is how Detroit built their team, lets do that in Milwaukee."

 

I don't mean to quibble because I think your overall point is well made, but I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that Detroit was built without top draft choices. Rip Hamilton was the 7th pick. And I realize you aren't taking about trades, but Iverson was no. 1 overall and Rasheed was no. 4.

[Dmiles23]

Rip Hamilton was the 7th pick. And I realize you aren't taking about trades, but Iverson was no. 1 overall and Rasheed was no. 4.

Right, I was just trying to catch draft picks made by that team, or on a couple of instances players were picked by another team, but a deal had already been made to trade them (like Bryant and Aldridge I believe). And then you can also talk about the Celtics trading their high lottery pick to Seattle for Allen, and him being an intrical part of their Championship team last year. But I'm just trying to say that it's hard to build a team without being bad for a year or 2. It kinda sucks that the Bucks haven't been able to cash in on their lack of success. Their lottery pick last year is already gone, and their pick this year is rumored to be on his way out.

[Gobias Industries]

Joe Alexander has played very well tonight. He may be one of the worst I've ever seen at blocking out, but otherwise he's been impressive.

[Gobias Industries]

Yep one of the best players on the court tonight.

[Gobias Industries]

My god does Richard Jefferson suck. Unbelievable how bad he is.

 

Edit: Now LRMAM just saved his butt on a play w/ 30 sec left.

 

Double Edit: And we're baaack. He just got stuffed with 24 seconds left. He is, dollar for dollar, the worst player in the NBA.

[razzzorsharp]

You can't mean that...

 

1) Jerome James, New York Knicks - 2 years, $12.8M. Healthy for most of last season, James made more millions than minutes played ... all season. When he originally signed a five-year deal, many thought it was a horrible deal. It's amazing how a vastly impressive series at the right time net a $30+M contract.

 

2) Brian Cardinal, Minnesota Timberwolves - 2 years, $13.0M. Cardinal was well on his way to being a career nomad before he had two comparatively good seasons averaging 9.6 and 9.0ppg, respectively. That resulted in a disgusting contract that the Grizz have regretted ever since. Cardinal is serviceable at best. The service has yet to be determined.

 

3) Dan Gadzuric, Milwaukee Bucks - 3 years, $20.2M. The Bucks can look forward 3 and 3 for the next three years. I've been informed by a colleague that he is a beast at cleaning up rebounds in NBA Live 08. So, he's good for something other than keeping the seat warm for the starters.

 

4) Brian Scalabrine, Boston Celtics - 2 years, $6.6M. An energy guy with the Nets, Danny Ainge signed Scalabrine to a 5-year, $15M deal which many Celts cringed about for months on end. At least, he's a good luck charm.

 

5) Raef LaFrentz, Portland Trail Blazers - 1 year, $12.7M. Wikipedia knows what's up! Raef is best known for his expiring contract.

 

6) Erick Dampier, Dallas Mavericks - 3 years, $33.7M. A lightning rod for criticism, Damp lost his mean streak a while ago. A $10+M center he is not. The need to sign to DeSagana Diop to the full mid-level exception demonstrated urgency.

 

7) Kenyon Martin, Denver Nuggets - 3 years, $46.0M. Since he stayed healthy and performed admirably last season, K-Mart was lower on this list. Injuries have slowed K-Mart down; however, was he worthy of the contract that Denver gave him? Because of the implicit Jason Kidd factor, methinks not.

 

8) Jared Jeffries, New York Knicks - 3 years, $19.4M. A career-low 3.7 ppg this past season along with an overall negligible impact for a full mid-level exception contract - that's what he gets for leaving a good situation in Washington.

 

9) Ben Wallace, Cleveland Cavaliers - 2 years, $28.5M. Though Wallace remains a formidable defensive asset, he is no longer worthy of NBA All-Defensive First Team honors. Also, guys who don't take shots from outside 10 feet should shoot better than 39% from the field. Just a thought, not a sermon.

 

10) Stephon Marbury, New York Knicks - 1 year, $21.9M. After the 2004-05 campaign, Marbury's numbers have declined precipitously. For a player who does not have a real playoff resume or a track record for being an unselfish teammate, that's not comforting. Little known fact: Steph shot a career-high 38% from behind the arc in 2007-08.

[razzzorsharp]

Joe is the guy I want taking my three at the end of the game. Alas, better than Mo Williams taking a two down by three last year as time expired.

[Gobias Industries]

Oh. You got me. I should have said least valuable. In a one for one trade, I'd take any of those players for RJ, save maybe Dampier. I believe he (RJ) has a player option in 2010-2011, which he'd be crazy to not exercise. The only guys paid comparable money are K-Mart and Dampier.

[JJHardy7]

They're waiting until the results of the dunk contest. Update from a Memphis paper last night is that the discussions are ongoing.

 

To me, it doesn't make sense. Why are they waiting on the results? I thought I read Alexander will be in the dunk contest. What are they going to do either way? I looked around that blog and didn't see the dunk contest mentioned, but I'm probably missing something. If it is going to happen (which I don't think it is), it's nowhere near done like Gery claimed it was. If agents and everything were involved, players wouldn't be playing. I still doubt this trade had any truth based on what has been reported. Now if there's other parts to it maybe, but it just doesn't make any sense and now the delay I don't really think there's anything there. I don't want what I'm about to say come off poorly, but Memphis really could care less about their team and any 'reports' about the team can be wrong and no one really cares. I think rumors may have gone on through the team, but to actually get a 'scoop' on the team doesn't happen because nobody first of all cares and second of all the Memphis management team is pretty quiet about that stuff.

 

Dmiles -- you bring up some good points. I just don't think it has to happen that way. If the Bucks continue to improve, it's not without top ten picks. There's Bogut, Villanueva, Alexander, and Jefferson were all drafted in the top ten or close to it. I'm not saying these guys are or will be superstars, but there's top ten talent/draft picks on the team. Obviously it's much easier to have a top team by drafting the talent and keeping it, but the Bucks don't have a real stud on the team. I think it's a little bit more fair to compare all-stars on teams and the more of those the more likely you'll win. The Bucks have Redd, but he has his limitations and really isn't the type of player that can carry a team by himself due to his game lacking other parts. Building through the draft is a real good way to go, but I think the Bucks can be a top 4 team in the east in a few years if they stick with a plan. I'm not saying they'll be a dominate team, but given how the east currently is it's quite possible the Cavs, Celtics, and Pistons aren't elite teams in a few years.

[Dmiles23]

If the Bucks continue to improve, it's not without top ten picks. There's Bogut, Villanueva, Alexander, and Jefferson were all drafted in the top ten or close to it.

 

Yeah, I understand that they have top 10 picks, but they don't have a super star in the group. The best way, and probably the only way, the Bucks are going to get a super star is through the draft. And the more lottery picks they can acquire, the better chance they have on finding one. Most of the top teams have missed on lottery picks as well, but, in my opinion, eventually finding a superstar is worth all the misses.

 

I think the Bucks can be a top 4 team in the east in a few years if they stick with a plan. I'm not saying they'll be a dominate team, but given how the east currently is it's quite possible the Cavs, Celtics, and Pistons aren't elite teams in a few years.

 

You can't really say that because you don't know what the eastern conference will look like in a couple years. After a couple years, Redd, Jefferson, Ridnour, Bell, and Villanueva will be gone or on their way out, so you have no idea for sure what the Bucks roster will look like. And you also say that the Cavs, Celts, Pistons won't be elite teams, but what's to say the Knicks, Bulls, Nets, etc... won't be an elite team by then? I'm assuming you mean the Cavs won't be an elite team if James leaves. Well, all the rumors say if he leaves he's going to the Knicks or Nets, so whichever team gets him has a good chance to turn into an elite team. That 2010 FA class is going to improve a lot of teams, and make others much worse.

[Oldcity]

Man Richard Jefferson can be traded for anything as far as I'm concerned. I'd be just fine with letting LRMAM and Alexander play small forward this year. Jefferson was especially bad tonight.

[JJHardy7]

Yeah, I understand that they have top 10 picks, but they don't have a super star in the group. The best way, and probably the only way, the Bucks are going to get a super star is through the draft. And the more lottery picks they can acquire, the better chance they have on finding one. Most of the top teams have missed on lottery picks as well, but, in my opinion, eventually finding a superstar is worth all the misses.

 

I agree with what you're saying. I'm still holding out hope that Bogut continues to develop into the star, but I don't think that will really happen. I also don't know if it's 'missing' or if it's more luck. Like you've mentioned they just haven't had the best years to have top picks.

 

You can't really say that because you don't know what the eastern conference will look like in a couple years. After a couple years, Redd, Jefferson, Ridnour, Bell, and Villanueva will be gone or on their way out, so you have no idea for sure what the Bucks roster will look like. And you also say that the Cavs, Celts, Pistons won't be elite teams, but what's to say the Knicks, Bulls, Nets, etc... won't be an elite team by then? I'm assuming you mean the Cavs won't be an elite team if James leaves. Well, all the rumors say if he leaves he's going to the Knicks or Nets, so whichever team gets him has a good chance to turn into an elite team. That 2010 FA class is going to improve a lot of teams, and make others much worse.

 

I agree with what you're saying here. I guess what I mean is that the Bucks will have a chance to be among one of the better teams given how the current top teams are. If the Bucks continue to bring in more youth and hopefully develop that youth and like you've mentioned find a star they could be in good shape for awhile. I still fear that if things don't change for the Bucks (i.e. not have a top team in the east for years and don't get a new building) they won't be in Milwaukee in five years or so.

[Gobias Industries]

It's kind of funny. For all these years, the Bucks have been looking for a slasher, and supposedly RJ was suppose to be it. But the player that has been much better at taking it to the rack this year is Redd. He's our slasher with him not being as deadly from outside as he used to.

 

I'd really like to see if we could matchup with Toronto and see if they'd take RJ to make a playoff push, and in the process get some of their shooters back (Parker, Bargnani, Kapono). We could shed a bad contract and get better in the process. I doubt Colangelo is dumb enough to do it though.

[ILuvDaBush]

Well Redd in college, and his first year in the pros, was the epitome of a slasher. It wasn't until Ray-Ray took him under his wing that he began to focus whole-heartedly on the outside shot. As for RJ, I continue to wonder if he is just completely unhappy in Milwaukee. We all remember how he fought tooth-and-nail not to come here, much like the Chairman before him. As for the Vanilla Sky Debate, I just continue to hope the Bucks sign the Alopecia'd One to complement the Bony Banger (VS) and the Prince underneath. I think we have a lot of the right pieces, though I do think we need a BETTER PG. Is Jr. Conley the right fit? Probably not. But I also don't think Razor Ramon is right for this team. To me, the top building blocks on the Bux are, in order:

 

Bogut! The guy has such a pretty baby left hook and he's really committed to rebounding. I just continue to hope his back holds up, the story of all big men.

 

The Prince. A young Ron Artest, without the baggage (both emotional, and physical...He Fat). Very excited about the young man's future.

 

Vanilla Sky. He's got the hops to be called Milwaukee's Finest. He's inexperienced overall, but again, how can you not be excited?

 

The Alopecia'd One. Well as anyone who knows about Alopecia, health is rarely the issue, as the guy has a boosted immune system. Unfortunately, that's where talk of his body's defense ends. Offensively, however, he ranks up there with Redd, both in quality and quantity. Pay the Man.

 

Redd. You win by scoring the most points last time I checked.

 

Razor Ramon. Quick, big, and fearless. Good ceiling, but far from it. Good at getting to the paint and creating contact, though his kicks are nothing to be mugged over. Speaking of mugging, his defense definitely is a work in progress.

 

Luke the Duck. A Lame Duck PG who probably will be one of the most overpriced of 2009's PG crop.

 

Bell. Umm...is he happy to be here yet? I feel like he's been waiting to go all Latrell on his teammates and coach since the Bux matched his offer. Maybe Steve Mariucci and Tom Izzo can mediate.

 

Gadz-Can't we trade him for Jared Jeffries?

 

RJ-Can't we trade him for....Chairman Yi and scraps? Nah. I'll keep my RJ. He's got nowhere to go but UP!

[yoshii8]

Luv Da Bush, I'm not sure if you've been watching the Bucks, but Luke Ridnour has been playing very well, and Luke the Duck doesn't rhyme or make sense.

 

I know that Charlie Villanueva has alopecia, but I think its kind of disrespectful to call him the Alopecia one, if you had a disease would you like to be called by that instead of your name?

 

Also, RJ never fought tooth and nail not to come to Milwaukee. From everything he's said, he was sad to leave NJ because he had been there his whole career, and it had nothing to do with Milwaukee. From what I've seen he has had nothing but a positive attitude, and seems to be a good teammate. Although I did expect more out of him on the court.

[ILuvDaBush]

I have been watching the Bucks, and hence, that's why I think some team is going to severely overpay for Luke the Duck (He's an OU product).

 

As for CV, I mean no disrespect. He's one of my favorite players, and by actually pointing out that he does, in fact, suffer from Alopecia, most people just move on instead of simply dwelling on the "bald basketball player." I can only assume you would rather people do this in whispers.

 

As for RJ, there was much made about the time it took for him to make a public appearance after he was traded. Supposedly, he made it known through sources that he didn't want to come to Milwaukee. I just don't understand how his numbers fell off so much. Was last year simply his career year? No one has a career year playing with Vinsanity....except T-Mac (it seems like that was the last time he was truly healthy) or his cousin.

[yoshii8]

Got it, Oregon Ducks, now it makes more sense. It went right over my head. You think someone is going to overpay for him, so you think he will be traded sometime soon?

 

On Villanueva, I don't mind pointing out the fact that he has Alopecia, but the nickname The Alopecia'd One seems a little bit ridiculous.

[Gobias Industries]

On Villanueva, I don't mind pointing out the fact that he has Alopecia, but the nickname The Alopecia'd One seems a little bit ridiculous.

He's an Al-Paca.

 

Luke Ridnour has played tremendous on both sides of the court once his back healed up. I think he's signed to a pretty team friendly deal for maybe 2 after this year.

[danzig6767]

It's kind of funny. For all these years, the Bucks have been looking for a slasher, and supposedly RJ was suppose to be it. But the player that has been much better at taking it to the rack this year is Redd. He's our slasher with him not being as deadly from outside as he used to.

IMO, what we are seeing with Jefferson is that Jason Kidd made RJ look better than he was by getting all those easy fast break dunks, layups, and easy hoops on cuts to the rim. Now he's no longer playing with a HOF PG in his prime and instead Luke Ridnour, he gets far fewer easy baskets by just running the wing on fast breaks. Plus, his athletic ability without question has declined to where he's now mainly just a jump shooter and not an overly good jump shooter either.

[Dmiles23]

Redd. You win by scoring the most points last time I checked.

Ha... Ok? So why is it that the Bucks have been184-266 in the 5.5 years that Redd has been the team leader?! To score the most points, you need to play defense, rebound, and share the ball... Last night's line by Redd is a perfect example. He played 40 minutes, was 8-21 from the floor for 16 points, with 1 rebound and 0 assists. How in the world can a player play 40 minutes and only get 1 rebound?!

[Gobias Industries]

To score the most points, you need to play defense, rebound, and share the ball... Last night's line by Redd is a perfect example. He played 40 minutes, was 8-21 from the floor for 16 points, with 1 rebound and 0 assists. How in the world can a player play 40 minutes and only get 1 rebound?!

Redd definitely isn't one to fill up the stat sheet. But he has played the best defense of his career this year. A lot of times RJ's man is the one going off.

[Hammer]

There are 4 minutes to go in tonights game. If the Bucks blow this game I will not watch them until March at the earliest. What a joke of a game RJ has played...along w/ several others...

[Gobias Industries]

David Stern should be ashamed of himself.

[davego]

Well...it was a win...I really like Ridnour.