Milwaukee Bucks Thread 2008–2009 (part 1)

[danzig6767]

I know there aren't a lot of NBA fans here, but there are a few. Looking around the net, most national folks are picking the Bucks to finish in the 10th-12th in the East this year. ESPN had 10 of their staff make predictions of the Eastern Conference, only Ric Bucher tabbed the Bucks to make the playoffs, 7th seed was his choice.

 

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My thoughts/concerns

 

1. Starting five is somewhat decent, but PF is a big problem because i don't think Skiles will be able to handle Villanueva's miserable defense. The problem there though is there is pure garbage behind him.

 

2. The bench looks to be flat out terrible

 

3. While the Bucks obviously need massive improvement to last years second worst defense in the NBA, there looks to be little scoring on the team besides Redd/Jefferson/Bogut/Villanueva.

 

4. The Skiles effect. For the first time in awhile the Bucks have a proven head coach, last season Larry Krystkowiak seemed way in over his head and the players didn't respect him. The last few Bucks coaches claimed that they'd take minutes from players who lacked effort on defense, even high profile guys like Redd or Bogut, it never happened. Skiles in past coaching gigs wasn't afraid to hold any players accountable for lazy play. A culture change is badly needed.

 

I loved the Skiles hiring, but the upgrade in overall talent from last year i don't see as enough to make the playoffs. The team still lacks a true impact star player. Skiles should help improve the defense some, but the roster lacks defensive talent. Lack of scoring off the bench will likely be a big problem. If any starter gets hurt, the lack of depth will be glaring.

 

Around 37-45 is my guess if the team stays relatively healthy among the starters

 

(edited since the season is no longer "about a week" away - hawing)

[MarquesJohnson2000]

I'll be surprised if they win more than 32 games. They might play good "D" in short stretches but there's too many holes (in both talent and motivation) for them to maintain it consistently.

 

The fact that they spent most of the month laying the groundwork to have excuses for a poor start (Trip to China, exhausting, not enough practice time, etc.) is not encouraging.

[fondybrewfan]

Villanueva is extremely over rated. I am a little nervous because they have looked pretty bad in the preseason. But they haven't used their entire starting lineup yet. I was wondering if Alexander might make his way into the starting lineup shortly. I am hoping for 38-40 wins but I don't think any amount of Skiles teaching is going to get Redd and Villaneuva to play defense. When you have two horrible defensive players it makes the entire team bad defensively. I am looking forward to having an actual PG this year. Our bench does look pitiful, Tyron Lue is just awful, I really hope Sessions plays over him

[davego]

I'm in for that 30-35 range. However, the product will be greatly improved (hard for it not to be). I suspect Allen is going to play much more of a role then we think. Not sure if that is good, but I can see him getting a ton of minutes because of his ability to defend some and his past experience with Skiles.

 

I worry about the PG position more than the other shortcomings. Bench points are going to be an issue, too. However, this is just step one and (so far) it seems this administration is trying to put together players that 'fit' with each other rather then a fantasy team approach.

[davego]

CV has a role, but not this role. I suspect he will (or should) take that 6th-man role pretty quickly; thus my thoughts on Allen.

[JJHardy7]

I guess I just see this team as being better than most so far that have posted here. Maybe I'm just a homer. I think 41 wins isn't out of the question. I really think Skiles will help this team a lot and motivate them. I also see Bogut playing a much larger role on the offensive end.

 

My real question with the team is depth. They really can't afford a significant injury. I know it's been discussed, but can Joe Alexander play the 4 in the NBA? If he could (I'm not so sure about that), it could be a huge boost to the team IMO.

[JoeHova]

I also see the Bucks around 32 wins. If everything goes right, I can see them making the playoffs, but it's hard to project Villanueva or Bogut or Sessions to have a breakout year at this point. Still, I'm pretty excited for the season to start. Skiles is known to be a guy who has terrible rotations, so it will be frustrating to see Malik Allen, Francisco Elson and Tyronn Lue all on the court together, but it will also be fun to see Bogut, CV, Sessions, Mbah A Moute and Alexander improve over the course of the season.

 

My biggest concern for the Bucks involves guys not playing out their contracts. Charlie Bell shamefully tanked last season after the Bucks matched his contract offer from Miami and Richard Jefferson appears set to do the same this year after the trade. The reports are that Bell won't do that again, but how can we trust that? If I was Herb, I'd give him the boot, even knowing he'd still get his money. Bell caused me to lose any respect I had for him with that pathetic display. Vince Carter in Toronto in 2004-05 is the only other time I can recall a player so egregiously not even trying.

 

I'm really excited for the NBA in general to tip-off. My favorite players, Dwyane Wade and Yao Ming, both look to be healthy for the first time in awhile and both looked dominant during the Olympics (Yao looked a little rusty, but he was just cleared to resume basketball at the time). Houston could be a title contender this year even if the Artest acquisition doesn't work out and Miami should be exciting to follow with Beasley and Marion as Wade's sidekicks. Miami is total garbage aside from those 3, but I still see them making a run at the playoffs. Not sure if they'll get there barring a few trades, but it'll be entertaining as long as Spoelstra opens the throttle. Houston could use a better PG, but Alston won't kill you, despite his horrific shooting.

[trwi7]

Joe Alexander can't even play the 3 in the NBA. That guy is terrible, hated that pick.

 

I also fail to see how Bogut is going to have a much larger role on offense. Yeah, we traded Mo, but this year's projected starters excluding Bogut (Ridnour, Redd, Jefferson and Villanueva) averaged 50.2 shots per game last year. Our starters from last year excluding Bogut (Mo, Redd, Mason and Yi) averaged 47.2 shots. So it's not like getting rid of Mo and adding Ridnour is going to bring shots to Bogut. And let's be honest. If a couple of those guys aren't getting shots (Redd and Villanueva) then they might as well not even play because they're not going to bring much more to the table.

 

I predicted 32-50. Our bench is absolutely terrible. Our "Big 3" of Redd, Jefferson and Bogut is one of the worst in the league and there's absolutely no scoring outside of Redd, Bogut, Villanueva and Jefferson.

[JJHardy7]

I also fail to see how Bogut is going to have a much larger role on offense.

 

I just think Skiles is going to run the offense through Bogut more so than coaches in the past. I agree that if everything goes according to last year there may not be shots for him, but I think if the offense is ran through Bogut he'll get more opportunities. I guess part of me is just frustrated that it seems at times the only way Bogut can score is if he gets an offensive rebound.

[trwi7]

Bogut shouldn't have the offense run through him. He has one post move, can't make free throws, can't step out and hit a jumper and is always late to either make a move towards the basket or pass out of a double team.

[jordanmuehl]

Bogut shouldn't have the offense run through him. He has one post move, can't make free throws, can't step out and hit a jumper and is always late to either make a move towards the basket or pass out of a double team.

And to think the Bucks could have picked CP3 or Deron Williams... ouch. I will say this, though - I firmly believe Bogut is a top-ten NBA center. Those are not easy to come by.

[davego]

I'm guessing we will be Bogut get the ball more, but asked to pass it as well. If Redd and the other shooters get their shots off 'in-side out' ball movement, they might be on to something.

 

I'm going to disagree a bit that Redd, CV, RJ and Bogut can't give the Bucks enough offense to compete...I see it as the need for more points someplace rather then asking these guys to 'carry' the scoring. That mind-set is (IMO) what led to the last two seasons of disaster.

 

If RJ has been negative on Milwaukee, I have largely missed it. He didn't want to get traded, but I certainly hope he is more mature then Bell was last year. The JS did say Jefferson met with the Bucks brass as the trade was going down...I'm hoping that means he was somewhat supportive of coming to Milwaukee. It might be a one-season stop anyway...

[yoshii8]

Joe Alexander can't even play the 3 in the NBA. That guy is terrible, hated that pick.

He is very athletic, has a nice jumpshot, and has shown the ability to play well in big games in college, so I think the game will eventually slow down for him and he will turn into a very solid NBA player. Even in the preseason, he has shown some positive signs, and looked good in the games vs. the Warriors. Giving up on a lottery pick before he even plays one NBA game, now thats some extreme pessimism.

 

On the season, I look forward to seeing if they can actually improve defensively, and have a lot more ball movement on offense. I like the starting lineup a lot, I hope they will focus on getting Bogut more touches this season, and making sure that Villanueva plays closer to the basket.

 

I don't like what I've seen from a lot of the new guys on the bench, and I hope that LRMAM, Alexander, Sessions and Bell, see more minutes than guys like Lue and Allen. I predict that they will win around 40 games, and make the playoffs as the 8th seed.

[PrinceFielder28]

they haven't played a real game yet and already everyone is writing them off. maybe they will be bad, but give them a chance.

[Diskono]

They'll be bad, but I'm hoping for a fun-to-watch team that improves over the season. I'm impressed with Skiles so far, he's saying the right things, and I feel like he has a solid rebuilding plan. As other have said, there's not much beyond the starting lineup, but if we see some younger players develop and show signs of promise, I'll be happy.

[Gobias Industries]

I'll watch when I get the chance, as long as they play hard under Skiles. I hated Mo, and Simmons and Yi were garbage, so I thought they did pretty good given the situation in the offseason.

 

I hate the Joe Alexander pick. He's terrible. I saw the game for a second last night and all I saw was him dribble down the court with no one around and stumble and lose the ball with no one around.

[bacon06]

I guess part of me is just frustrated that it seems at times the only way Bogut can score is if he gets an offensive rebound.

 

Bogut is money with that little left handed hook shot and decent from 12 feet and in.

 

Overall, the Bucks won't set the world on fire, but at least they have a lot more positives going for them than last year. Definitely looking forward to the start of the season.

[danzig6767]

I'll watch when I get the chance, as long as they play hard under Skiles. I hated Mo, and Simmons and Yi were garbage, so I thought they did pretty good given the situation in the offseason.

 

I hate the Joe Alexander pick. He's terrible. I saw the game for a second last night and all I saw was him dribble down the court with no one around and stumble and lose the ball with no one around.

That's because Alexander can't dribble anywhere near traffic without getting stripped. He also seems to struggle pretty badly right now with recognition on defense, he mainly just runs around with no real plan or purpose.The odds look high to me that Luc Richard will see more minutes even though he was only a second round pick because his overall game is more NBA ready except for scoring.

[homer]

Hopefully Skiles takes advantage of Bogut's sick passing skills. Post him up at the top of the lane and look for Jefferson cutting to the hole. Bogut was a sick passer in college and we haven't seen much of that in the pros - reminded me of that big Russian dude that used to play for Portland.

[jjgott]

"reminded me of that big Russian dude that used to play for Portland."

Arvitis Sabonis?

[homer]

Yep. That's him. Passing skills only obviously.

[yoshii8]

Hes from Lithuania

[JJHardy7]

Bogut is money with that little left handed hook shot and decent from 12 feet and in.

 

Oh I'm not doubting Bogut doesn't have offensive skills. I just think if he doesn't get the ball during set plays (which with some coaches this has been the case too much IMO) the only way he can score is on rebounds.

 

I agree with homer on the passing skills. I think he's shown them at times, but it's just a matter of not having the ball during set plays. Bogut is one of the best passing big men in the league -- he needs to offense ran through him IMO. To say Bogut isn't a good player, is kind of off base IMO. I'm not saying Bogut will be a hall of famer. I am saying that he's a pretty good player and it's hard to find big guys in the NBA. I hope Bogut continues to develop and to be honest I'm sick of all the 'they should've taken Paul or Williams talk'. There were a handful of 'experts' (if that) that projected Paul that high or Williams for that matter. It was by and large going to be Bogut or Marvin Williams -- I'd taken Bogut then and now.

[homer]

Well if the season goes anything like this Bulls game tonight, the Bucks may never outrebound a team all year.

[nate82]

It is going to take Alexander at least 2 or 3 years before he becomes good. I believe Alexander could become a Tayshaun Prince type of a player. Not a great player but someone you would want as a role player on your team.

 

As for Jefferson he just didn't want to leave New Jersey. He liked it there he doesn't really have anything against playing in Milwaukee he just really liked living and playing in New Jersey. I don't think Jefferson will be a problem this year for the Bucks he will play regardless what team he is playing for.

 

For the Bucks as a whole team there are a lot of holes that need to be filled that were not filled during the off season. I still believe the Bucks traded the wrong player. They should have traded Redd instead of Williams but one of them needed to be traded that was for sure. I believe Redd would have given the Bucks more value and would have freed up cap space that the Bucks really need to do. Though I doubt any NBA free agents even have Milwaukee on their radar for a team to play for. Only free agents the Bucks seem to get are the Bobby Simmons type. The Bucks need to either get star quality players through trading for them or drafting players that will fit their system.