Sheets watch (closed in deference to new thread)

[Fear The Chorizo]

3 years 27 million for a pitcher like Sheets who's healthy would be a no-brainer. Sheets may not currently be healthy, and has shown that he can't get through a full season healthy - I'm sure that can be argued, but 2004 is a long time ago. That alone wouldn't cause teams to duck and run - if he was guaranteed to give a team 150 quality IP each year he's signed, 3 years 27 million is still a steal. The problem is that there's plenty of uncertainty about his injury report, most notably the latest one that ended his season. What concerns me about this particular injury is that he pitched through it after taking a shot for some time prior to it becoming too painful to continue - everyone indicated no additional structural damage was done during that time, but it obviously couldn't have helped. Sheets could still get a decent deal, I think, if he really is healthy - he'll have to wait until spring training starts for clubs, and he'll have to showcase himself by pitching for scouts/gms to prove he's currently ok.

 

Russ, I don't think Sheets is on the verge of seeing his arm fall off, but I think many teams can't take the risk of even getting Sheets at a discount only to see him make 1/2 of his starts. If those extra innings would have to be pitched by garbage pitching, and if the contract given to Sheets eliminates the organization's flexibility to take on salary via trade, it's a risk not worth taking for probably 25 teams in baseball (especially when draft pick compensation gets factored in).

 

The other issue is there's just not much more money for free agents to get from teams - budgets are already stretched paper thin for alot of organizations, and I think it's completely altered free agent contract values. Some players and agents have been slow to swallow their pride and lower their asking price, and that's probably made their situations worse. They can be completely right in citing contracts from previous years given to comparable players to determine their value, but if nobody's listening that doesn't do them any good. It's similar to quitting your job because you're moving elsewhere, then expecting to land a similar job with higher pay even though nobody's hiring, and the few jobs that open up get filled internally by younger, cheaper workers who have ability but lack experience.

[RyDogg66]

3 for 27 for sheets is STILL a no brainer because that amount of money figures into it injury time. If healthy Ben is worth 15-20 million on the open market. If he pitches 150 innings of 3.20 ERA baseball and a 4:1 K:BB ratio, then 8-9 million a year is easily what he is worth.

 

Ben Sheets still has tremendous value even if he makes 22 starts and pitches 150 innings. Just plan on that, pay him accordingly and if he stays healthy you are getting a great deal.

[JohnBriggs12]

Rosenthal is suggesting that Sheets and other type A's may wait until after the June draft to sign thereby totally negating the compensation pick hindering their price tags. That isn't so far fetched. If that happen, there may be a couple independent league teams with awesome rosters in late May.

[Invader3K]

That would be kind of amusing...although in Sheets' case, the few extra months to recover and rehab his elbow might be beneficial.

 

I can't imagine Manny Ramirez sitting out that long though. I'm sure he'll be signed by spring training, one way or another.

[strawbossisevil]

I don't see how it would be amusing, seeing as it would mean the Brewers would lose out on two premium draft picks. If he makes it clear that he is planning on doing that, I think the Brewers almost have to offer him a contract.

 

Unless, does the team that sign him lose a first/second round pick the next season? Would the Brewers at least get a compensation pick the next year?

[Fatter than Joey]

If he makes it clear that he is planning on doing that, I think the Brewers almost have to offer him a contract.

 

The Brewers have offered him a contract -- I really think he doesn't want to play here for whatever reason.

 

Unless, does the team that sign him lose a first/second round pick the next season? Would the Brewers at least get a compensation pick the next year?

 

No.

 

Of course what is good for the goose is good for the gander -- we could sign players as well w/o forfeiting our picks.

[joepepsi]

I wonder how much this has to do with whether teams can get insurance on a contract for Sheets?

[logan82]

Cashman refutes claim that they can only sign 3 type A/B free agents.

 

Quota report was wrong

By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel

Jan. 30, 2009 11:04 a.m.

Well, apparently that story that the Yankees had reached their quota of Type A free agents was wrong.

According to this report, Yankees GM Brian Cashman says they can sign more.

Didn't take long for that story to be refuted, did it? Assuming the Yankees still have an unlimited spending account, they can go out and sign more free agents.

What a nutty winter.

[endaround]

If only there was an entire, I don't know, industry built upon reporting information about baseball...

[jjfanec]

Cashman refutes claim that they can only sign 3 type A/B free agents.

Well I still doubt Sheets is an option since they have 5 starters already and Hughes and Kennedy to back them up. So we do not have to worry about only getting a 4th round pick.

 

I think Juan cruz would make a ton of sense for the Yankees. Only a 4th round pick for a really good set up man. They still have a 1st round pick as well.

[logan82]

If only there was an entire, I don't know, industry built upon reporting information about baseball...

That would be awesome. Maybe we could even get one guy that knows a lot about baseball to write stories for the Brewers.

[RyDogg66]

So a player is going to sit out until June and then, what, sign a 2 year deal for the rest of '09 and '10, only they would only get paid for half of 2009, thereby negating a quarter of the value of the contract. If Ben Sheets wants a 2 year 18 million dollar deal and he signs that deal on June 15th, wouldnt he really be getting a 2 year 13.5 million dollar deal?

 

Since so few teams are at risk of actually losing a first round pick at this point, I dont see how waiting until June helps anyone. It doesnt even come into play for Abreu and Dunn.

[SeriesFinale]

I would be livid with Big Ben if he did that to the Brewers over what would really only be a difference of maybe a million or two, especially after they offered him a fair arby.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If healthy Ben is worth 15-20 million on the open market.

 

I think that open market doesn't exist currently - it was definitely there the last few offseasons, and even earlier this offseason when the Yankees were involved in bidding on healthy starting pitching, but I think that ship has sailed, at least until next offseason.

[RyDogg66]

Tell that to Sabathia and Burnett. If Sheets were healthy he would have been in Burnett's place in New York. Even Lowe eventually got his money.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Across the bottom line last night it said that Jason Varitek is considering either retiring or sitting out 2009.

 

Who would have thought there would be no market for 37 year old .672 OPS 15 million dollar catchers?

[Fear The Chorizo]

Tell that to Sabathia and Burnett. If Sheets were healthy he would have been in Burnett's place in New York. Even Lowe eventually got his money.

 

Do you not take the time to read my posts? I specifically said that sort of market was available to healthy starting pitching when the Yankees were still throwing offers around. What you just said is exactly what I think.

 

Sheets wasn't healthy enough to warrant an offer from the Yankees when they were spending their money. If the Yankees aren't involved in the bidding, there's no starting pitching market even close to comparable to recent free agent offseasons.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I remember Boras wanted something like the Posada deal for Varitek, IMO Boras has lost alot of credibility in the industry. No one takes the guy seriously anymore. Ramirez is another black eye for him. He was a fool for turning down the Dodgers offer.

[Invader3K]

I think it's clear that even Boras misjudge the market. He thought teams would be willing to throw out lots of money, even to aging players, like they used to. That's just not the case anymore, and good for the teams for holding the line on that. Sure, the super elite players like Teixeira and Sabathia still go their big paydays, but an aging guy like Manny just isn't going to get some ridiculous 9 figure contract anymore.

 

Too bad Sheets and his agent didn't realize earlier what Boras and his clientelle found out.

[sheetskout]

I would bet that the moves Boras makes by the perceived "misjudging of the market" are COMPLETELY INTENTIONAL.

[zurch1818]

Per Ken Rosenthal, the talks between Sheets and the Rangers have "less momentum than they did 10 days ago." The Rangers want a one year deal with a club option and Sheets wants a two year deal. Why can't the Brewers get this done?

[SeriesFinale]

Why can't the Brewers get this done?

Well, that's the big unanswered question. Why are the Brewers not involved at this point and why doesn't Ben seem to be at all interested in getting them involved, especially considering almost all potential suitors have fallen to the wayside left and right? Health issues, bad blood, feasible money problems, what?

[Invader3K]

Haudricourt notes in his blog comments that the Brewers did approach Sheets (I'm not sure when, but I think early January) after Smoltz and Penny signed their deals, asking if he would take a similiar, incentive laden contract. Casey Close said they weren't interested.

 

So, the Brewers have made overtures twice to Sheets and been rebuffed, if you count the arbitration offer. I think it's time to accept that Sheets just doesn't want to be back in Milwaukee.

[kramnoj]

I think it's time to accept that Sheets just doesn't want to be back in Milwaukee.

 

I'm not sure why we should accept that, when we have evidence to the contrary (Sheets saying "You can't invite yourself back"). Sheets wants a multi-year deal with a salary that he feels he is worth. Unfortunately for him, no team is willing to comply. Right now it looks like the Rangers are willing to give him a contract, but not one that Sheets wants, and the Brewers have offered one year deals, even when they know Sheets wants multiple years.

 

If the Brewers would give Sheets a market deal for 2+ years, I don't see any reason to believe Sheets wouldn't take it. But it seems clear that the Brewers won't commit to two years, and while some may not agree with that, I can understand their decision.

[BREWCREW5]

Sheets will not be pitching for the Brewers next year. I think that had been made pretty clear.