Sheets watch (closed in deference to new thread)

[rluzinski]

This is embarrassing.

[BrewCrewForever]

I kind of sort of hope he signs in the NL (not in the central) and once or twice a year he shuts down the Brewers. well not really, but sort of.

I also share these thoughts. But it now seems just about 100% certain Ben Sheets career as a Brewer is over. And that is sad.

[hauser42]

I don't see why you are bothering to argue with hauser42 over Sheets at this point. This is the same guy who didn't post on the boards for months and then suddenly showed up with a bunch of Sheets bashing posts the minute he got hurt back in 07. I think he dislikes Sheets more than he even likes the Brewers.

 

During the fall I'm not on this board unless there is something going. Hang out at a Packer board.

 

We will not miss Sheets as he will miss a portion of the season again with some injury. But then again being injury prone is not part of Sheets history.

[logan82]

Disliking Sheets is one thing, but trying to say we are better off without him is just plain wrong. Whatever innings he is able to pitch there is no way we can come up with 5 guys who are better to cover those innings he could pitch.

[TooLiveBrew]

During the fall I'm not on this board unless there is something going. Hang out at a Packer board.

 

Ennder was referring to an injury that happened during the 2007 season, not Fall.

[mothershipconnection]

He gave this team almost the same amount of innings that Suppan did, and won less games.

 

So what? My girlfriend could give the team 200 IP of 60.00 ERA eephus wizardry.

I'm sure you have a coworker who sucks at their job but is there as often as you are, would you argue that they're just as valuable as you to the company.

[rluzinski]

We will not miss Sheets as he will miss a portion of the season again with some injury.

 

If Sheets never pitches a full season again but averages 150 IP @3.5 ERA over the next 3 years, he still has tremendous value. Of course, according to your vary narrow view, it makes no difference what Sheets will get paid next year. He can't possibly make a team better! It's a ludicrous position to take and it's a shame that we have dozens of posts trying devoted to trying to address your position.

 

You don't like Ben Sheets on a personal level. As a Brewer fan, you feel wronged by him. Fine. I think we all figured that out years ago.

[endaround]

Sheets signing with the Mets could easily destroy the Brewers playoff chances, more than anything the Brewers do or don't do this offseason.

[PeaveyFury]

You don't like Ben Sheets on a personal level.

 

It does indeed seem eerily personal....

[hauser42]

You don't like Ben Sheets on a personal level.

 

It does indeed seem eerily personal....

I dont know Sheets on a personal level, so I can't tell you if I would like him on that level. On him being a Brewer I just dont think he has reached the level of success that his skill set says he should have.

 

I'm also the guy that ragged on Bill Hall a couple of years ago when every one was claiming he was going to be an all star players for the coming years. Took a ton of heat for that and now very few people are ranting how good Bill Hall is. We dont see the "Can Bill Hall Pitch" thread getting pumped up.

 

Each one of us has a different look at players, like it or not this is how it works.

[logan82]

Sheets signing with the Mets could easily destroy the Brewers playoff chances, more than anything the Brewers do or don't do this offseason.

That would amount to a 6-8 game swing with one of the teams we are likely to be in direct competition with for the Wild Card.

[And That]

We dont see the "Can Bill Hall Pitch" thread getting pumped up.

The difference of course being that if this thread were titled "Can Ben Sheets Pitch" you would seem to be insinuating that the answer to that question might be a "no" or "like Suppan" - which is an almost indefensible position. The whole innings pitched argument thing is mind-boggling. By your definition, you could take any two pitchers, and if they pitched the same number of innings, they'd be doing the same job as the other one. I mean, Kenny Rogers pitched the same number of innings as Jake Peavy. Is the guy who gave up 110 earned runs doing the same job as they guy who gave up 55?

Each one of us has a different look at players, like it or not this is how it works.

Most looks are rooted, however shallowly, in feasible logic.

[rluzinski]

24 starts @ 3.6 ERA ~ 3 WAR

 

If the Brewers can get 3 WAR (wins over replacement), cheaper somewhere else, signing Sheets would not make the Brewers better overall. 32 starts @ 4.1 ERA is just as valuable, for instance. No idea who that would be, though.

[Oldcity]

I suppose that could be Oliver Perez, but he's going to cost more than Sheets because he'll get a longer deal.

[endaround]

Perez's career FIP is 4.67 and was at 4.68 last season. CHONE has him at a 4.72 ERA with 4.97 FIP. So I'm saying its not him.

[Oldcity]

I didn't mean to imply that I expect him to do that; I was just saying it seems possible. He's pitched full seasons in 07 and 08 and was particularly solid in 07. If the 32-start, 4.1 ERA pitcher is available in free agency it's probably Perez.

[RU Rah Rah]

Sheets signing with the Mets could easily destroy the Brewers playoff chances, more than anything the Brewers do or don't do this offseason.

I've been thinking along these lines, too. Anything that helps the Mets get north of 90 wins is going to hurt the Brewers' chances of getting the WC. (And, obviously, it pulls the Brewers in the opposite direction by depleting the rotation.)

[bklynbrewcrew]

I just read on mlbtraderumors.com that Sheets supposedly wants a 2 yr deal for 18 mil plus an option year. If thats true we would have to be insane to not give him that and more.

[JohnBriggs12]

I just read on mlbtraderumors.com that Sheets supposedly wants a 2 yr deal for 18 mil plus an option year. If thats true we would have to be insane to not give him that and more.

 

What's more amazing is the Mets wanting him for 1 year at $5 million plus incentives. Obviously Sheets has realized he made a huge mistake not taking arby. I think the Brewers as the only team that wouldn't be giving up a pick need to step up for that price (not more though bklynbrewcrew) unless the injury is more dire than we are led to believe.

 

This has to be Melvin's dream scenario.

[fondybrewfan]

I also saw that. It kind of suprised me that Ben is still trying to get a multi year deal despite a down market. If he were really confident in his health he would take a 1 year deal with a a player option for the 2nd year and hope the market is better in 2010. This just smells of Ben getting as much money as he possibly can because he really isn't sure he can hold up. He could easily do a 1 year $10M deal this year, pitch well and not get hurt, and then get 4 years and 50 million after next year.

[JohnBriggs12]

It doesn't surprise me he wants 2 years. Every report is we haven't seen the worst of this economy. The market for pitchers is more likely to slip next year than it is to pick up and Sheet's will have the security of having a deal in place.

[Invader3K]

Yes, I too would love to see Milwaukee sign Sheets for that deal, but I still think there's no way he's coming back at this point.

[MillerParkSouth]

Is this turning into a who blinks first type scenario with Sheets and Melvin? 2/$18mm would be amazing.

[TheCrew07]

Those of you that keep suggesting Ben could get a 1 year deal anywhere, why is that true? The market is down and how many teams would give up a draft pick for essentially a 1 year rental? If Sheets were a type B I would absolutely agree he could get a deal anywhere but if Melvin signed an often injured pitcher to a 1 year deal dumping our first round or second round pick in the process I'd be ticked off. At least a multi year deal allows the team to mitigate the risk some over a couple of years. I don't see how it's good business to sign a FA pitcher for 1 year, only to be back in the same place the following year with no guarantee of a depressed market next off season. On a 1 year deal if the pitcher is down for a significant length of time you've basically given your draft pick away for nothing.

 

The Brewers have significantly less risk than the other teams in baseball because signing him wouldn't cost us anything but our contract, so we could do a 1 year deal. The only problem is that Sheets has to want to come back, and I don't think we've see any concrete evidence on that either way.

[endaround]

Except most teams won't give up a 1st pick for Sheets. None of the protected teams will give up a first round pick. Any team that has already signed a Type A agent won't lose a 1st round pick.