Sheets watch (closed in deference to new thread)

[logan82]

Right but no one is going to sign him if he is injured and costs two draft picks. We would have to offer him arbitration too, despite his being injured. The risk is most certainly there.

You only lose one draft pick for signing a player and only if they are a class A. Signing Sheets to a series of one year contracts wouldn't be the worst thing in the world as long as the money doesn't get crazy.

[strawbossisevil]

Problem is, he wants at least a two year deal. So pretending like he would accept a one year deal isn't being honest about the situation.

[Invader3K]

Right...if that was the case, he would have probably accepted arbitration...of course at that point, he probably thought he'd have a few offers by now.

[Paul77]

....During the year, when Ben was pitching fantastic, there was rumors that the Brewers wanted to open negotiations again. I believe Ben's quote was "You can't invite yourself back to the table"

Taking those facts in addition to the fact that Sheets doesn't like to bat and has been treated poorly ......

 

The only problem with that "fact" is that is is attributed to a mis quote. Sheets did not say that the Brewers could not invite themselves back into negotiations. What he said was that he could not invite himself back and that the Brewers had not shown an interest in talking about a new deal.

 

The original quote is from June 23rd 2008 and a reporter asked him if he planned on testing the free agent market. His reply, "That's the direction I'm headed right now" Asked if he would like to remain in Milwaukee he said, "My mind is always open to anything but you can't invite yourself back. That's all I can say about it".

[BrewCrewForever]

I would like to invite Ben back. Doug, can you please do the same?

[logan82]

Problem is, he wants at least a two year deal. So pretending like he would accept a one year deal isn't being honest about the situation.

We don't know if he has even been offered a multi year deal. He might not get enough money in a multi year deal and be forced to take a single year deal to work his value back up. I am sure Gagne wanted a multi year deal last offseason and we know how that truned out.

[sgtcluels]

I don't see why we couldn't give Ben a 2 year deal. Yes he's got a bit of an injury bug, but he still contributes way more to the clubs success then the likes of Suppan. He's silly good when on, and pitched well till that elbow problem last year.

 

I'd take 20 starts from Sheets over 30 starts form a guy like Suppan any day. Give him a 2 year with a club option, and lets get our rotation magnitudes better.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

I am sure Gagne wanted a multi year deal last offseason and we know how that truned out.

Gagne actually turned down a two-year, $16M deal to sign the 1-year, $10M deal.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'd take 20 starts from Sheets over 30 starts form a guy like Suppan any day. Give him a 2 year with a club option, and lets get our rotation magnitudes better.

 

Magnitudes better for those 20 starts, then magnitudes worse for 10 starts when the Brewers would have to send a AAAA scrub to the mound to try and give them 5 innings before proceeding to burn up a bullpen that's already stressed because of a lack of deep starts by Parra, Suppan, etc. Suffering from 10 missed starts is one thing, but then crippling the rest of the staff because of those missed starts makes me wonder if the Brewers would be better off with another 2 starting pitchers of the caliber of Dave Bush - something I think they could acquire while spending close to the same amount on Sheets. As their rotation currently sets up, even if Sheets is resigned there's still a hole at the #5 rotation spot and uncertainty in the bullpen, which the Brewers wouldn't be able to spend money on to improve if they give all their budgeted dollars to Sheets.

 

If Sheets hasn't gotten ANY multiyear offers at this point in the offseason, there has to be a ton of concern about his elbow, not to mention his injury history that reads like a Web MD index. I'd be willing to roll the dice on Sheets with an offer similar to what you propose, but only if the dollars are similar to what his last contract was. I really think that most teams are going to tighten up the purse strings over the next few seasons, which definitely includes being leery about guaranteeing multiyear money to guys who have shown that they can't stay healthy.

[Invader3K]

Yep, it definitely seems like teams aren't going to be spending lots on questionable players. One nice effect is that we seem to be seeing less of the ridiculous contracts paid out for mediocre or slightly above average types. I doubt we will see too many Suppan-esque deals this winter.

[sgtcluels]

Depending on what the doctors say, this is good news for us. It'll repress the money and make it so we can either sign him on the cheap, or on the short term. I love Sheets, he's stupid good when healthy (Yeah yeah I know), it just seems like everyone hates him because he sucks with the bat and yes gets odd injuries.

[RockCoCougars]

Magnitudes better for those 20 starts, then magnitudes worse for 10 starts when the Brewers would have to send a AAAA scrub to the mound to try and give them 5 innings before proceeding to burn up a bullpen that's already stressed because of a lack of deep starts by Parra, Suppan, etc.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Suppan is a AAAA scrub, albiet one making eight figures.

[BrewCrewForever]

Come on Doug 2 years around $30 mill for Sheets. Get it done.

 

I still think back to last year one of my favorite moments was the gem Ben pitched against the Padres at home. When Sheets is healthy he gives you that opportunity every night he toes the rubber.

[adambr2]

Wow, the Mets are offering Lowe 3 years, $36M? Value for starting free agent pitchers is really plummeting.

 

I imagine Lowe will end up getting around $38, but still, less than $13M a year.

 

Man alive, can't we just give Sheets 2 years, $25M, and call it an offseason? Even if that was our last move, that would only probably put us around $80M in payroll, including Cameron and all our arbitration payments.

[Ennder]

Magnitudes better for those 20 starts, then magnitudes worse for 10 starts when the Brewers would have to send a AAAA scrub to the mound to try and give them 5 innings before proceeding to burn up a bullpen that's already stressed because of a lack of deep starts by Parra, Suppan, etc.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Suppan is a AAAA scrub, albiet one making eight figures.

You can think what you want but the facts are you are completely wrong. Even in his worst year which was last year he was above replacement level and he has not been too far off league average in his time as a Brewer.

[liveforoctober]

Magnitudes better for those 20 starts, then magnitudes worse for 10 starts when the Brewers would have to send a AAAA scrub to the mound to try and give them 5 innings before proceeding to burn up a bullpen that's already stressed because of a lack of deep starts by Parra, Suppan, etc.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Suppan is a AAAA scrub, albiet one making eight figures.

You can think what you want but the facts are you are completely wrong. Even in his worst year which was last year he was above replacement level and he has not been too far off league average in his time as a Brewer.

And if we don't sign Sheets or acquire another front line pitcher.. Suppan and Bush may be the most valuable pitchers we are going to have this season. With Gallardo and Parra and #5 (Villa or McClung at this point) not likely to go past 6 innings on a consistent basis... our bullpen will be toasted by the all-star break unless Bush and Suppan eat every inning they can. We need Suppan and Bush badly this year to save our pen.

[LennyBrisco]

Wow, the Mets are offering Lowe 3 years, $36M? Value for starting free agent pitchers is really plummeting.

I heard this on espn first take this morning and had to laugh, but after saying the mets offer, they said boris/Lowe are still hoping for 5yr/90 contract. Its no wonder why so many of these fa are still unsigned.

[adambr2]

Wow, the Mets are offering Lowe 3 years, $36M? Value for starting free agent pitchers is really plummeting.

I heard this on espn first take this morning and had to laugh, but after saying the mets offer, they said boris/Lowe are still hoping for 5yr/90 contract. Its no wonder why so many of these fa are still unsigned.

 

Hahaha...Boras and Lowe can hope all they want, they're not getting that or anything close to that. They don't control the market at this point. Lowe isn't going to sit out next year for nothing, especially at his age.

[twobrewers]

Boras has got to be hating this leak.

 

Boras always keeps his offers silent so that he can pretend to have HUGE offers from several teams. This drives up the price for his players.

 

(Think about Tex. Boras tells everyone he is looking for huge dollars. The only numbers that ever really "float" around are the huge contract numbers that Boras leaks. All of a sudden, everyone assumes that is the going rate. Then Boras tells the Yankees, for X dollars you can have him. The Yankees assume everyone else has made a simliar offer - so they do too.)

 

I'm sure Boras was telling everyone that Lowe had some really big offers and was looking at 5/90 million. So, the Mets didn't want to get caught up in that game and leaked their own numbers. Now all of a sudden people think Lowe is worth 3/36 million instead of 90M.

 

However, when a Boras client doesn't get the numbers he wants - he usually signs a really short 1 or 2 year deal for a higher rate. (Gagne & A. Jones last year. Likely Manny this year.) I wonder if Lowe maybe signs a 1 year $15 deal somewhere.

[BCZF]

Isint Mets ownership involved with this Madoff thing? Does this effect the team in any way?

[DHonks]

The MLB network had a 10-15 minute discussion on Saturday of "why is Ben Sheets available?" Their conclusion was that he was stupid for not taking arbitration.

[Invader3K]

The MLB network had a 10-15 minute discussion on Saturday of "why is Ben Sheets available?" Their conclusion was that he was stupid for not taking arbitration.

That seems to be fairly accurate at this juncture.

[sveumrules]

Isint Mets ownership involved with this Madoff thing? Does this effect the team in any way?

 

minaya was on the mlb hot stove the other night (which i've enjoyed when i've been able to catch) and said that the Madoff money was a completely separate investment from the mets for the wilpons and whomeverelse.

 

i also feel like i read something recently maybe from heyman about teams being more concerned with benny's shoulder than his elbow from the medical reports that are going around.

[naivin]

I don't see why we couldn't give Ben a 2 year deal.

The fact that teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Angels, Dodgers. White Sox, etc. don't appear willing to do so should speak volumes. It is starting to look like offering Sheets any sort of contract amounts to nothing more than a roll of the dice at this point. If none of the big money teams are willing to take those odds, I sure don't see how it makes sense for the Brewers.

 

His injury sitation was a little bit different, but I would guess people were saying similar things about Mark prior a couple years ago..."When he's healthy...why not take a chance?"

 

It is entirley possible that Sheets comes back and dominates. His history over the last couple years would seem to indicate that is not likely however.

[JohnBriggs12]

Sheets blew it. He should have accepted arbitration. Once the big boys backed off him, no way was he going to get a huge contract. I don't sense any interest by the Brewers now.

 

He'll probably end up in Texas for about half of what he would have received in arby.