Sheets watch (closed in deference to new thread)

[rluzinski]

And CC likes to hit but in the end, I would think that is only a minor consideration for a starting pitcher.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Sheets is going to leave because the team hasnt treated him well at all. Melvin has made no sincere efforts to keep Ben and that will turn out to be a huge mistake.

 

When all is said and done CC and Ben will be gone and Peavy will be a Cub and the Brewers will sign Garland or Perez for way may than they are worth. Maybe Im panicking but I have lost all confidence in Melvin to do the right thing. We could sign Sheets to a 3 yr 42 mil dollar deal and that would be better than overpaying CC or paying big money for a "durable" innings eater like Garland.

[PeaveyFury]

Sheets is going to leave because the team hasnt treated him well at all. Melvin has made no sincere efforts to keep Ben and that will turn out to be a huge mistake.

 

No, I think Sheets is ticked off that after nearly 10 years with the organization, the Brewers are rightfully focusing their efforts on CC and not him.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Sheets is going to leave because the team hasnt treated him well at all. Melvin has made no sincere efforts to keep Ben and that will turn out to be a huge mistake.

 

So that 4 year contract extension that Melvin signed Sheets to (at the time the largest deal in team history, and something they had basically never done before as a small market team) wasn't a sincere effort to keep Ben? Honestly if it wasn't for Melvin and Mark A., Sheets would have been gone 3-4 seasons ago, and quite frankly the Brewers would have never acquired C.C. since the Brewers still wouldn't be close to contending.

 

I'm pretty confident in saying that the Brewers got Sheets' best years of his career - that's about all an organization with the payroll limitations the Brewers have can ask for when managing their roster. Unfortunately for him his best seasons came when the Brewers flat out stunk on ice, and he's been riddled with injuries and ailments that have prevented him from playing a significant role in the few playoff races the Brewers have been a part of. I wish Sheets lots of luck whenever he doesn't pitch against the Brewers.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Im sorry but I dont think Sheets has been treated well at all. The Brewers made no attempts to resign him last offseason when it made sense for both sides and now are showing him no love as well. The fans have not appreciated him either. The guy has been a great pitcher for the better part of his 8 seasons yet few appreciate his contributions.

 

I will be devastated if he ends up in New York for a 2 yr deal while we sign garland or some other 5th starter. So it looks like the Cubs will add another ace and the Brewers will lose 2 of them. That is no way to compete and it just makes me wish we let Jack Z become GM and let Melvin go.

[MillerParkSouth]

Sheets or no Sheets, I would be absolutely shocked if Melvin signs Jon Garland. I seriously don't think anyone has anything to be worried about there. According to mlbtraderumors.com, the Yanks are expected to make Sheets an offer in the next 72 hours in the 2/$30mm range.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I would offer Sheets 3 yr/ 45 million. For a pitcher of his stature that is more than fair and it would be a contract that wouldnt destroy the teams financial flexibility. There is no reason to let Sheets leave for a contract like that from the yankees. I really feel we are undervaluing a great pitcher in Sheets and that is a shame.

[fondybrewfan]

I would offer Sheets 3 yr/ 45 million. For a pitcher of his stature that is more than fair and it would be a contract that wouldnt destroy the teams financial flexibility. There is no reason to let Sheets leave for a contract like that from the yankees. I really feel we are undervaluing a great pitcher in Sheets and that is a shame.

There is also no way Melvin can make an offer like that with his CC offer still on the table. If CC does go elsewhere and Sheets hasn't signed I wouldn't be suprised if Melvin made contact. It is pretty obvious that CC should be the #1 target until proven otherwise, its pretty pointless to even talk to Ben right now. What he is going to tell him? Well hold tight for a month, once CC signs somewhere we will get in contact with you? It would be pointless. Sheets has been treated with nothing but class throughout his entire Brewers career. The fact that the Brewers areb't aggresively pursuing him because of his injury issues and other priorities does not show a lack of class and I would hope he understands that.

[rluzinski]

Perhaps someone could find the link but I believe The Hardball Times did a study that estimated the free agent value of the average type A compensation. I want to say it was in the $8-$9 mil range. So while Sheets projects to be worth around 2/$30 mil, he would really cost the Brewers closer to 2/$40. Looking at the big picture, it might not be a wise decision to do something like that (if it's even something Sheets would accept from the Brewers).

 

Of course, assuming Sabathia and Sheets walk, the Brewers are going to have to get another starting pitcher somewhere. They may have to give up that $8-$9 mil in draft picks themselves...

[Oldcity]

It just seems a bit foolish to me to chase a pipe dream of a long-term, extremely risky contract (Sabathia) when they'd presumably have a realistic chance at getting a comparable pitcher for a shorter contract and much less annually. I don't think they should withdraw their offer to CC yet, but I'd try to sign Sheets for two or three years. If Sheets were to accept before Sabathia decides, they can just withdraw their offer to CC.

[UndraftedFA]

I agree with you Stevo. I know part of it is because Sheets was always one of my favorites. Maybe it's rose colored glasses and wishful thinking, but I don't think a 3 year 15/per, would be all that bad. I guess I don't see the chances with C.C. all that great, and I hope they don't wait that out too much longer.

[bklynbrewcrew]

It just seems a bit foolish to me to chase a pipe dream of a long-term, extremely risky contract (Sabathia) when they'd presumably have a realistic chance at getting a comparable pitcher for a shorter contract and much less annually. I don't think they should withdraw their offer to CC yet, but I'd try to sign Sheets for two or three years. If Sheets were to accept before Sabathia decides, they can just withdraw their offer to CC.

This is exactly my point. CC isnt signing with us and even if he does its way riskier than giving Sheets a 3 yr deal for less money. Sheets is just as good as Sabathia and will cost much less which leaves money to improve the rest of the team.

[Teatoe993]

Sheets is just as good as Sabathia and will cost much less which leaves money to improve the rest of the team.

 

Was Sheets just as good as Sabathia for the 2nd half of last season? Even when healthy, I just can't see Sheets tossing a complete game every other start on 3 days rest and putting the team on his back the way CC did last year.

[strawbossisevil]

Sheets is not as good as Sabathia, and this is coming from a pro-Sheets guy. Sabathia is clearly the better pitcher. Add Sheet's injury concerns, especially the latest one being in his elbow, and it's night and day.

 

Sabathia is probably in the top two or three SP in all of baseball. Sheets is probably in the top 15 to 20.

[twobrewers]

Even when healthy, I just can't see Sheets tossing a complete game every other start on 3 days rest and putting the team on his back the way CC did last year.

To be fair, I can't see CC doing that again either. (We really need to accept how otherworldly that really was)

 

I think the point is that going forward, if Sheets is healthy - he will probably put up similar numbers to CC.

[Oldcity]

Look at the career numbers. They're extremely close.

 

Sheets: 116 ERA+, 1.20 WHIP, 7.6 k/9, 3.85 k/bb

 

Sabathia: 121 ERA+, 1.24, 7.56 k/9, 2.66 k/bb

 

Sabathia just had an insane half-season that will never be duplicated. On a whole, they're extremely similar and it's blowing my mind the Brewers would rather give a five or six-year deal to one before they'd even consider a two or three-year deal to the other.

[chadomac]

I think the point is that going forward, if Sheets is healthy - he will probably put up similar numbers to CC.

 

That's the world's biggest "if"

[Hate those Rodents]

No kidding. I want us to resign CC if only because I'm obsessed with winning. But truthfully, the guy was 6-8 before coming to us from a pretty decent Cleveland team. Not saying the record is something that's a "tell all" but just something to keep in mind.

[BrewCrewForever]

If the Yankees sign CC and Ben I would not be very happy.

[strawbossisevil]

Career numbers doesn't tell the whole story.

 

CC's past three seasons he has had an ERA+ of 140, 143, and 162. He also did that in the American league where he doesn't have to face pitchers. (Except for his stint with the Brewers)

 

Over the same period Sheets has had an ERA+ of 119, 117, and 139. He also gets to face pitchers, which is a distinct advantage.

 

Anyone who says that Sheet and CC are close to being the same pitcher isn't being honest. Sheets has only had an ERA+ over 140 once in his career. Something CC has accomplished the past three years.

[twobrewers]

That's the world's biggest "if"

This one is much bigger - if

[Oldcity]

First of all, ERA+ is a league stat, so the AL vs. NL argument doesn't apply. And yes, CC has been better the last three seasons, but he was only fully healthy last season. Last season he put up numbers as good as any year CC's had outside of his ridonkulous 2008.

 

Sure, I'd obviously choose Sabathia over Sheets on a level playing field, but when you consider the contracts each will get, Sheets is at least as attractive as CC.

[strawbossisevil]

Well, right. That's when you have to include other things like the fact that Sheets has had problems with his throwing arm. Is it really wise to throw a three year 15 million per year contract at someone who has experienced those issues? That is the definition of unwise.

 

Sabathia may cost 5 million per year more, but he has no arm trouble and is undoubtedly the better of the two. Sheet's best year, this past season, CC has done as well or better in each of the last three years.

 

If we could get Sheets on a one year deal, then maybe it would be something that could be considered. But matching or exceeding the reported Yankee offer is just too much risk.

[Oldcity]

Not to nitpick, but Sheets' best season by far was 2004, and it was as good as Sabathia's 2008. And as far as being unwise, I consider a 5/100 or 6/120 deal for Sabathia to be more unwise than a 3/45 deal for Sheets. Sabathia is very likely to be injured as well over the course of his contract (wayyy overworked). Sheets may be too, but an injured player for a three-year contract isn't crippling like an injured player in a six-year contract.

[Crew2323]

According to mlbtraderumors, the Yanks may offer 2 yrs./ 26 mil. to Sheets. To me, that's a steal for the Yankees. If I were Melvin, I'd offer that to him, even with the Sabathia situation still unclear.

 

Link