Randy Johnson & Curt Schilling

[strawbossisevil]

Well, if we could add both Sheets and Johnson for less than CC, at significantly less long term risk, I say we should do that.

 

Giving us a rotation of:

 

Gallardo

Sheets

Johnson

Bush

Parra

 

Obviously I consider Parra better than Bush, but having him in the #5 spot would not have us going with back to back lefties. Not sure what we would do with Suppan, I wonder how well he'd be out of the pen and as the #6 starter were something to happen. He could fill the role of long reliever. Obviously finding a trade partner would be a much better option, but we'd have to choke a serious amount of salary to even get teams to start talking.

[Never Outhustled]

I realize that it Johnson isn't a 25 year old where character matters as much, but I wouldn't want him on my team. I've watched him here in Phoenix, read and watched his interviews. Even this article talks about his goals and they are all personal stat based.

The 1st goal for Johnson listed in the article is to go to the World Series. That's not a personal stat. We've seen time and again that Johnson is rude, disrespectful, and just a jerk to the general public. However, he hasn't had problems with teammates, and is a tremendous competitor. He's not my favorite option, but he's definately on the list.

[MNBrew]

Johnson's a proven winner of a pitcher. Even at 44 and with a balky back, he pitched 184 innings last year, 11-10, 3.91 ERA, 173 K and only 44 BB. Signing Johnson would be a definite upgrade.

 

If Sabathia were still to re-sign, then you just let Sheets go and take the picks. Or you end up with Johnson and 4 picks. And isn't Johnson only a Type B FA, not a Type A? So Johnson + net of 3 picks. That's still a plus deal.

[PeaveyFury]

And isn't Johnson only a Type B FA, not a Type A? So Johnson + net of 3 picks. That's still a plus deal.

 

Johnson wasn't offered arbitration, so the D-Backs will receive no compensation at all for losing him.

[Invader3K]

We've seen time and again that Johnson is rude, disrespectful, and just a jerk to the general public.

Who really cares, though? I'll take one jerkish future Hall of Famer for one year if it helps us get back to the playoffs. I've never heard of Johnson being a locker room disruption or bad teammate, as you did note. That's the only thing that might matter, but it doesn't seem to be a factor with the Big Unit.

[Crewin06]

I might be in the minority but I will take a pitcher out for personal stats.

 

This isn't basketball where he will hog the ball.

 

This isn't football where he will $!@!% about not getting enough carries.

 

This is Pitching where the more he wants the ball the better and the more guys he strikes out the better it is for the Brewers. I don't see how having personal goals as a pitcher is counter productive?

[DHonks]

X ellence, Randy Johnson has never had a problem with teammates. His former teammate (schilling) was a darling with the media but despised by many teammates. I'd take the Unit in a heartbeat. Randy, Yo, Parra, Bush, and Suppan is acceptable. I'd love CC back, with us eating Suppan's contract and dealing him.

[twobrewers]

My ideal off-season is to add Hoffman (2 years), Johnson (1 year) and resign Sheets (2 years)

Then trade for Carlos Guillen from Detroit in mostly a salary dump for Detroit. (Trade Salome & Gillispie)

2B Weeks
3B Guillen
LF Braun
1B Fielder
SS Hardy
RF Hart
CF Cameron
C Kendall

P Sheets
P Gallardo
P Johnson
P Parra
P Bush

CL Hoffman

That is a very good team with little long term risk.

[Crewin06]

Very little long term risk but a $110+ million payroll. I can't see Hoffman signing for under 7, Carlos Guillen is 12, Johnson will probably be 7-8, and Ben Sheets is at least 12. That is alot of money to tack on while not subtracting any.

[Hate those Rodents]

I would not trade Salome/Gillespie for Guillen. That's a top five and a top seven prospect imho. Hardly a salary dump...

[twobrewers]

Very little long term risk but a $110+ million payroll.

Details.

 

Throw Bill Hall into the Guillen trade. Jeff Suppan to whoever is willing to pick up the most of his contract. (We eat about half)

 

In my opinion, Guillen/Johnson/Hoffman would cost about 23 million. Those 3 players at $23 million > $CC Sabathia at 20 million

 

That's a top five and a top seven prospect imho.

Salome did not make the MiLB.com top 50 minor league prospects - in spite of an amazing offensive year. He has to be a catcher. There is a real chance he doesn't pan out. Gillespie profiles as a good 4th OF - he really has no spot on the Brewers. Guillen is a switch hitting all star 3B.

[Postseason2006]

Salome and Gillespie wouldn't net us Guillen's arms or legs.

[DHonks]

Postseason2006, what do you mean? We'd be foolish to trade those two for him and his salary.

[mothershipconnection]

What I've always heard about Johnson is that he's a loner and socially-awkward rather than an outright jerk. So it seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't ruin "chemistry" while not adding to it either.

[DHonks]

mothership, that's correct. He does his own thing on days he pitches. But players accept it. It's not like how Bonds would openly shout at teammates for little things like changing the tv station.

[Crewin06]

Very little long term risk but a $110+ million payroll.

Details.

 

Throw Bill Hall into the Guillen trade. Jeff Suppan to whoever is willing to pick up the most of his contract. (We eat about half)

 

In my opinion, Guillen/Johnson/Hoffman would cost about 23 million. Those 3 players at $23 million > $CC Sabathia at 20 million

 

What more details do you need?

 

Like I said before. Right now the Brewers have a $70+ million. Guillen will make $10 million next season, Johnson will make at least 7 million, Hoffman will make at least 6 million and Sheets will probably make at least around 12 million. So at the bottom of the payroll to add the guys you have listed is 105 million. Now if you estimate that Johnson gets 8.5 million which it would probably take, Hoffman will probably get 7.5 million and Sheets will probably get around 14-15 million on a short 2 year deal. 70+8.5+7.5+14+10=110.

That is how I got 110 million. Please don't make me list out how I got to the 70 million number.

 

Yes you could try to dump Suppan and Hall but that is easier said than done.

[twobrewers]

What more details do you need?

It was "Details." - not "Details?"

 

As in, those are mere details that need to be worked out. There are clearly ways to reduce payroll and still add those players. (I also think you are way overpriced on Hoffman)

 

As my point stated, I think several players would help the Brewers much more than CC. (Without 5 years of risk)

[piccione88]

I think the Dodgers match up best with Johnson. They have the biggest need for a starter, and Johnson is from California, so a west coast team, esspecially a california team has to be a plus. After that I would say the Brewers have as good a shot as any of the other teams. The Cubs may not want to push their payroll much higher, the A's have a ridiculous amount of pitching already, and the Rangers and Giants are not the best place to rack up wins.

[Hate those Rodents]

It'll be interesting to see what starter we go after if Sheets/CC leave. Penney, Johnson, Garland, and Perez seem to make some sense for us.

[endaround]

Penny makes no sense. Garland and Perez make little sense.

[strawbossisevil]

Care to explain why? It doesn´t exactly add to the discussion when you just make a statement like that end. I´m not saying I disagree with everything you said (especially about Garland and Perez), but backing up your statement would actually encourage discussion instead of discourage people from tossing out their ideas.

 

Penny to me makes a lot of sense unless he is seriously injured. Throughout his career Penny has been a guy who has an ERA in the mid threes to low fours. Last year was obviously an exception because of his injury. But if Brewers scouts believe he can go back to being the high three, low fours ERA guy, he would make a lot of sense.

 

He is only 30 years old, would come cheap, and may be looking for a short term contract so he can boost his value, as right now his value is at an all time low. He doesn´t cost us a draft pick. There is a lot to like about Penny assuming his shoulder checks out in the pre-signing physical.

[nate82]

Penny would be a perfect signing by Melvin if he doesn't trade someone for some pitching help. Penny could be the #3 or #4 pitcher. Penny was already rehabbing from his injury at the end of the season. His agent has said in an article that he has been working out to get in better shape for 2009. I expect Penny to sign to a 1 year contract at a deep discount to stick it to the Dodgers and prove he can still pitch. Penny has as many question marks about injuries as Sheets and Burnett do. The only difference between Penny and Sheets/Burnett is that Penny will cost you less in money and in years.

 

To sign Penny it would take a 1 year $5-8 million contract. How is that not a low risk signing for the Brewers? If Melvin and company took a risk with Gagne at 1 year $10 million I don't see how Penny would be any more riskier than that signing.

[TooLiveBrew]

His agent has said in an article that he has been working out to get in better shape for 2009.

 

What would you expect his agent to say? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I agree that on the risk-reward angle with Penny. He looks to have had some serious shoulder trouble in 2008, but if he could be had for that $5-8M range, I agree it'd probably be a better reward than Gagne was potentially, if only because Penny would likely throw more innings.

[fondybrewfan]

Penny would be a perfect signing by Melvin if he doesn't trade someone for some pitching help. Penny could be the #3 or #4 pitcher. Penny was already rehabbing from his injury at the end of the season. His agent has said in an article that he has been working out to get in better shape for 2009. I expect Penny to sign to a 1 year contract at a deep discount to stick it to the Dodgers and prove he can still pitch. Penny has as many question marks about injuries as Sheets and Burnett do. The only difference between Penny and Sheets/Burnett is that Penny will cost you less in money and in years.

 

To sign Penny it would take a 1 year $5-8 million contract. How is that not a low risk signing for the Brewers? If Melvin and company took a risk with Gagne at 1 year $10 million I don't see how Penny would be any more riskier than that signing.

Burnett & Sheets both pitched much more in 2008, were better in 2008, and weren't accused of being fat overweight slobs like Penny was. (Although some insist Sheets is lazy and out of shape). I just don't think you can sign Penny and fully expect him to be in your rotation the entire year. With the limited depth the Crew will have at SP you need someone you can count on to pitch 30+ games and their is no way Melvin could count on Penny giving him 30 starts. I would probably be more confident in Randy Johnson giving us 30 starts than Penny at this point, and they would probably cost about the same. Plus RJ would just be another guy to help Parra along (hopefully)

[endaround]

If Penny was able to pitch the Dodgers would have picked up his cheap option to trade him at least at a discount instead of paying the large buyout. Meaning the Dodgers think he wouldn't pass a physical to be traded.