Who do we keep?

[jhpc12]

I know it just opinion's, but this forum has us trading everyone that's tradable traded.

 

I know pitching is a major concern and I think Cain is the most obtainable of all pitchers out there, but it means given up two or three position players. I'm just not sure it's worth it.

 

Trade Corey, JJ, Prince, Weeks, or Hall. Everyone one of them have been mentioned in a trade or in combination of a trade. I just hope management doesn't go down this road. I honestly believe that Corey, JJ, Prince and either Weeks or Hall are going to put together solid 2009 seasons.

 

I don't know the answer but Corey, JJ, & Prince (hold on to him at least one or two more years) are a good nucleus along with Braun to build a contending team for several years.

[ILuvDaBush]

Well I think keepers 1 and 1A are Braun and Yo. Beyond him, I think Prince is the engine that makes the Brewers go, so, to me, he would be a keeper. Hart and Hardy (Hardy, moreso) are the two players who are often mentioned as being available, because they could be replaced in some fashion. Hardy has a glove savant behind him and Hart...well he fouled up the two biggest AB's of our entire postseason (and back-to-back nevertheless). Rightly or wrongly, he's on the block. There is undoubtedly going to be some change this offseason. It is just a matter of who gets moved. But if you wanted a crazy proclamation, it would be that Rickie Weeks is going to be our starting 2B next year. And THAT is going to be the year he finally puts it together....or the next year....or his FA year. One of these years....

[piccione88]

I do not see the point in trading Hart. It is not like his value is skyhigh right now. The only reason I could see trading him, is if the front office believes that the Hart, we saw in the second half is closer to what he is. It would be selling low on a player that is relativley cheap for the next three years.

 

The Brewers also do not have to move anyone else, but if the right deal came up I dont think anyone should be untouchable. I have a feeling that given the bare market at shortstop the Brewers will get a few very nice offers for Hardy.

[Ennder]

I don't see much of a reason to trade these guys in 2009 other than maybe Hart. Hall is a backup player to me and always has been. Fielder is a DH and nothing is going to change it, his defense kills a large part of his value. I guess Hardy is expendable if you have faith in Escobar.

 

Braun, Gallardo and maybe Parra are who I build around at the core level.

[dadofandrew]

I don't see a spot for Hall, unless as a utility guy. To many teams, he'd be an improvement at 2B or SS, especially in a lefty heavy lineup or HR friendly park. He's overpaid a bit, but only by $2M or so a year.

[joepepsi]

Hart is the only player I'd consider trading.

 

Weeks and Hall don't have enough value.

 

Fielder, Braun, Hardy, Parra, and Yo are the centerpiece of the team, make affordable salaries, and would each create gaping holes if traded.

 

Down the line, maybe as early as next offseason, Fielder and Hardy may have to go. But for now, trading them will not make the team better.

[jhpc12]

I just don't want to give up to much. Pretty much very trade mentioned seems to be their one player for a package of ours.

 

It's way to early to be giving up the future.

 

That being said the only one for one trade prospect with someone in the wings to fill in is at First base. I can see a Fielder for Cain trade even up.

 

I still believe Corey will have a solid year, I believe it is to early to bring up Escobar, so trading JJ makes no sense.

 

I also believe that we will make some type of move in Centerfield that doesn't include Cameron.

[squambaum]

Why is everyone putting Hart on the block? He is a 5 tool player that had a bad final month of the season. A team with the Brewers limited payroll shouldn't trade a cheap quality outfielder like him unless they get something very good back in return. Not to mention he is most of the little speed this team has - plus who do we have behind him that can step in and play next year and if we trade him we would be forced to pick up Cameron's option unless we wanted to replace 2/3 of a good outfield in one offseason.

[tigerbrew]

For me, the keepers are Yo, Braun, Hardy, Parra, Bush, CV, Hart, Gamel, Escobar and Green.

[jjfanec]

Why is everyone putting Hart on the block? He is a 5 tool player that had a bad final month of the season.

Hart actually had a bad last four months. He batted .239 with a .263 OBP the second half of the year. His OPS was .659 the second half of the year. None of his last four months had an OBP above .310. That is not that good. I really like Hart and don't think he is a guy to trade right now with his value being low, but his collapse the second half of the year leaves a lot to be desired.

[ILuvDaBush]

Tigerbrew brings up a good point. What is CV's value right now? To be honest, he was our most dependable reliever, outside of Shouse, though I still felt better with the young CV. His changeup harkens back to a time of Wise and I would imagine he definitely has his followers elsewhere in the league. To be frank, he wasn't given a full shot in the rotation, as opposed to Bush. But I could see the two of them bringing up the rear to our rotation next year and have no qualms.

[MNBrew]

Why is everyone putting Hart on the block? He is a 5 tool player that had a bad final month of the season.

Hart actually had a bad last four months. He batted .239 with a .263 OBP the second half of the year. His OPS was .659 the second half of the year. None of his last four months had an OBP above .310. That is not that good. I really like Hart and don't think he is a guy to trade right now with his value being low, but his collapse the second half of the year leaves a lot to be desired.

Dissect Hart's ugly prolonged slump however you like, but it's very much out of keeping with everything he's done over his professional career. In the long run, he's still a 5-tool guy with a track record for solid, steady production, and guys like that don't just grow on trees -- not affordably, anyway. Hart to me is as much of a keeper as anyone else on tigerbrew's list.

 

I'd love to see Weeks earn his way onto that list, too, but his track record justifies all skepticism.

[fleehaw]

Probably one of the main reasons people are willing to deal Hart is that he is arguably the easiest to replace on the club. You'll have a much easier time finding a corner OF that puts up Hart-type numbers, than a SS that puts up Hardy-type numbers, or a 1B that puts up Fielder-type numbers.

[joepepsi]

Probably one of the main reasons people are willing to deal Hart is that he is arguably the easiest to replace on the club. You'll have a much easier time finding a corner OF that puts up Hart-type numbers, than a SS that puts up Hardy-type numbers, or a 1B that puts up Fielder-type numbers.

Yes, that's exactly the point. I don't understand why people can't see that. If Hart was part of a deal for a good 3B or another quality young starter, you could replace him with a platoon of Kapler and someone like Ryan Church and end up with similar or better production.

[piccione88]

If you are bringing in players than anyone is replaceable. The point is you will most likely not get the same production, at that cheap of a price. I am guessing Hart will not get much more than 2.5 million in arbitration. Who is available that can give you the kind of production Hart can, at that price.

 

People saw the end of the season, so that is fresh in their minds. If you believe Hart is going to turn into Bill Hall and fall off a cliff, than I can see wanting to move him. You will not get the best value back for him though, because of his poor second half.

[dhoffman19]

jjfanec wrote:

Hart actually had a bad last four months. He batted .239 with a .263 OBP the second half of the year. His OPS was .659 the second half of the year. None of his last four months had an OBP above .310. That is not that good. I really like Hart and don't think he is a guy to trade right now with his value being low, but his collapse the second half of the year leaves a lot to be desired.

My concern about Hart is that he's going to turn into Bill Hall. Both showed promise, but once pitchers discovered their lack of plate discipline they stopped throwing them fastballs. Now Hall is terrible and Hart looked just like Hall the whole second half. They both need to make the adjustment and somehow learn to lay off the breaking balls in the dirt or a foot outside. I think Hall is probably a lost cause at this point. Time will tell if Hart can make the adjustment - I wouldn't trade him now either since we'd be selling low, but I am worried about him.

[joepepsi]

While Hart's value was much higher last year, I am suspicious his value will continue to go down. He's never had particularly good plate discipline.

[MNBrew]

My concern about Hart is that he's going to turn into Bill Hall. Both showed promise, but once pitchers discovered their lack of plate discipline they stopped throwing them fastballs.

The thing is, Hart had 1000 more things going for him that Hall never did. Hart also struggled a few times early in the year in the minors at a new level but then would kick it in. Other than the real crappy pitch selection in August & September, Hart & Hall really are such totally different players.

[dhoffman19]

yeah, they are different players in some ways, but the similarity I saw in the second half this year was a pretty shocking lack of plate discipline. If Hart continues to swing at everything, he won't be any better next year. Hopefully he'll make the adjustment. I've pretty much given up on Hall at this point. He's been "slumping" for too long for me to expect he'll be able to improve his plate discipline.

 

We'll see about Hart. What's a little alarming is that he doesn't seem to think it's a problem and that walks are a bad thing: ""I'm not going to sit there and walk," Hart said."

 

http://www.onmilwaukee.co...cles/nldsnotes100308.html

[Ennder]

The difference between Hart and Hall is that Hall stunk in the minors so was a surprise when he actually hit well for a year and a half. Hart was very good in the minors so most people are forgiving about a bad half a year.

 

Hart had 213 BB in 2655 PA in the minors which isn't great but it isn't completely ugly either. The end of last year was the exception with him more than the rule. I just hope he turns it around this year.

[logan82]

Don't trade

Braun

Gallardo

 

Other than those 2, I would take a reasonable trade on almost anybody. I wouldn't be looking to move anybody outside of Hall or Suppan though. I don't think there is much chance either gets traded based on their ugly contracts. Hall was really not happy about being moved into a part time roll earlier in the year and to be honest his biggest role with us for next year would be either the small half of a 3B platoon or as a super-sub. I think he would be better off going to a team that could use him as a SS everyday.

[PeaveyFury]

Don't trade

Braun

Gallardo

 

My list is pretty similar. Though I think that most of the Brewers' pitching in the majors is untradeable this offseason (save for Suppan, who is probably untradeable for a completely different reason), or at least until they get the staff sorted out a bit. They're not really in a position to move Bush, Parra, Villy, etc until things are settled. Obviously, if the Cardinals lose their mind and offer us Pujols for Parra and Hart, you make the deal, but otherwise I can't see making any of our arms available, as we don't have a heck of a lot of quantity in or near the majors, or in the organization as a whole.

[GAME05]

any talk of trading Hart seems more reactionary to me as well, and i definitely don't think it's in our best interests to trade him. could he fall off like Hall? of course, but that's also the potential for pretty much any young player. plus whoever we'd get in return, we'd just be getting some other guy with the potential for a dropoff, too. But he's young and still has got lot of upside to him, like performing fairly well as a leadoff guy, or that he could move to CF if needs be.

 

plus i think finding a quality corner outfielder is easier said than done. you'd figure if we're going to be spending our money on anything this offseason, it's going to be on pitching and not for an expensive FA to take over for Hart.

 

i'm fine with trading Fielder, but i just wonder how much of a power gap that would create in our lineup, not to mention that he's a lefty. And sure i don't see a tremendous future for him as a 1B, but i don't think his trade value would plummet so much going into 2010 as it would trading him right now. maybe he goes and hits 15 more HR next year and his value is probably higher.

 

and if either were gone and we had to go cheap, there really isn't anyone in the system who can take over for them. yeah, Gamel is there, but maybe it's the same thing with him, that we'd be giving up on him learning 3b a little prematurely.

[sheetskout]

I do not see the point in trading Hart. It is not like his value is skyhigh right now. The only reason I could see trading him, is if the front office believes that the Hart, we saw in the second half is closer to what he is. It would be selling low on a player that is relativley cheap for the next three years.

 

The Brewers also do not have to move anyone else, but if the right deal came up I dont think anyone should be untouchable. I have a feeling that given the bare market at shortstop the Brewers will get a few very nice offers for Hardy.

Cory Hart isn't the type of player who has a ceiling to win an MVP. Also, due to the depth of the OF in the NL, I don't see Hart as a perennial all-star. That being said, I can't imagine a better time to deal Hart as he is coming off an all-star year. I would not be surprised in ten years to look back and see this as Hart's only all-star appearance. You'd also think that the Brewers would learn from the Bill Hall situation as I always said they should have traded him after his 35-HR campaign a couple of years ago. Sell high....

[endaround]

You think other team's GMs are fooled by an undeserved All Star appearance?