Hardy for Sanchez

[piccione88]

What do all of you think about a swap of J.J. Hardy to the Giants for Jonathan Sanchez, and possibly a decent prospect like kelvin pichardo. The Giants obviously need hitting, and the Brewers need pitching, and Sanchez has the ability to be a great starting pitcher. Sanchez had an ugly ERA of 5.01, but his peripherals were great. Sanchez had a K/9 of 8.8, and a HR/9 of .78. Sanchez is a little wild giving up 4.2 BB/9, other than that though there is not much not to like.

 

Sanchez contract also is another big plus. Jonathan Sanchez does not hit arbitration until the 2010 season. So the Brewers would have him for 4 more years at least.

[dadofandrew]

An all-star SS for a guy with good stuff? Nope.

[TheCrew07]

You said the same thing about Volquez last year when the Reds traded Hamilton for him.

[paul253]

They only problem with trading Hardy is that if Escobar isnt quite ready then we don't have anyone to replace him. Jonathon Sanchez would be a good start, but I'd like another pitching prospect in return (Madison Bumgardner?)

[piccione88]

No way you get either one of those prospects in the deal. Sanchez is a very good pitcher, you might get a decent prospect like pichardo, or one of their backend type prospects, but not another stud. You are getting 4 years of a potential ace for two years of Hardy.

[BrewCrewForever]

Nope, wouldn't trade Hardy at all. And for sure not for Sanchez. Now Fielder for Cain that would have my attention.

[DannyKmilw]

If you would do that deal who's ends up eating the innings at the end of the year?

 

You have Yo with basicly this past summer off and the most innings in a year he has gone was 188(2007)

 

The most Manny has gone is 166 innings which was this year and Sanchez 158 innings also this year.

 

Dont get me wrong id love to have Sanchez with the Brew but I think the Crew needs someone a little more established.

 

With the innings issues and the high pitch counts that Manny and Sanchez put up may

 

burn out the pen early in the season and force Soup, Bush and McClung to cover those innings.

 

Even if we made the playoffs with that rotation it most definitely would be gassed.

[EbbaStClaire]

I don't understand the love for Sanchez. Looking at the numbers, the only thing strikingly good thing is K's/9 innings. Everything else looks pedestrian. To say you would never be able to trade Hardy for Sanchez and another good prospect means that the Giants are not serious and the Brewers shouldn't waste their time. I would think the Giants would be excited to get Hardy for as little as Sanchez and a good minor league pitcher considering who they trotted out at short last year and the overall state of their team. I'd ask for Cain and Pucetas.

[endaround]

Why would the Giants want Hardy? Are we assuming that Sabean is being a fool again? The Giants have holes everywhere, not sure how a SS signed for two years during which they might win 81 games helps them.

[JohnBriggs12]

They only problem with trading Hardy is that if Escobar isnt quite ready then we don't have anyone to replace him. Jonathon Sanchez would be a good start, but I'd like another pitching prospect in return (Madison Bumgardner?)

 

Bill Hall, assuming they find someone to play 3B, is the obvious answer as a SS replacement (seems to me he's done it before) but I think Escobar is ready myself. Frankly though I'd have a hard time trading Hardy for a pitcher who's 26 who's never posted and ERA under 5, good stuff or no.

[silversurferr]

Hall and a prospect for Sanchez makes more sense. If we want a young, wild, power arm with a bad ERA, we could bring up Jeffress.

[fallingleaves]

This forum needs to lay back on its never-ending quest to trade our best young players.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't understand the love for Sanchez. Looking at the numbers, the only thing strikingly good thing is K's/9 innings. Everything else looks pedestrian. To say you would never be able to trade Hardy for Sanchez and another good prospect means that the Giants are not serious and the Brewers shouldn't waste their time. I would think the Giants would be excited to get Hardy for as little as Sanchez and a good minor league pitcher considering who they trotted out at short last year and the overall state of their team. I'd ask for Cain and Pucetas.

Sharp post. Sanchez just isn't good. I watched him pitch several times last year and wasn't impressed. His ERA was higher than Suppan's last year. It's not like he is super young either, he is 26. No way would I trade Hardy for him.

 

This forum needs to lay back on its never-ending quest to trade our best young players.

Agreed. For some reason, a lot on this forum want to give our core away for mediocrity. I guarantee you guys like Sanchez, DeJesus, and Blaylock are roasted on their respective team's message boards. By the way, Brian Roberts is good, but he's not as good as people here seem to think- you'd think he was Joe Morgan in his prime or something. Dude had like 10 homers and 60 RBI last year.

[Ennder]

Hall is the problem not the solution, I sure hope he doesn't see full time play at any position this year.

 

Brewers shouldn't trade Hardy is my answer, not until they are sure Escobar can hit better than Counsell which I'm not convinced of.

 

btw, Volquez had a 4.60 ERA in the second half this year and his first half 2.29 ERA was partially luck based, I wouldn't be calling him a great pitcher just yet. My guess is he is a 4 ERA type of guy next year.

 

I don't think Sanchez is a bad pitcher either but lefties who walk a lot of guys are pretty tricky to judge. Lefties develop late and he could go the Oliver Perez path or be out of baseball before he is a free agent, you just never know with that type of guy.

[dadofandrew]

You said the same thing about Volquez last year when the Reds traded Hamilton for him.

 

 

And I'd still rather have Hamilton than Volquez, for that matter. Josh is oodles more valuable, and he isn't one pitch away from being out for 1.5 years.

 

If you're trading a proven SS, you need to get back a proven P...or a proven P and a prospect. End of story. Heck, you can let him leave and get 2 top prospects, albeit unproven and a few years away. Why get less in a trade?

[piccione88]

It is not that I just want to unload our good young players. Shortstops are in very high demand. So to me if we are going to trade Hardy this is the year, otherwise sign him to an extension. I personally do not think Hardy would take an extension at this point, since he is not a lock to be playing shortstop past 2009. I can see both sides of the argument.

 

As far as Sanchez goes, clearly I am higher on him than alot of people, and I said that a prospect would be thrown in. It would be more along the lines of pichardo, matos, tanner, threets, or tanner. Guys that have potential to be high leverage relievers, or backend starters like tanner. The Brewers are not going to get a bumgarner who is a top prospect, and last years 10th overall pick. Sanchez is not a bum, you personally may not like him, but there are alot of GM's who would love to have Sanchez on their team.

[piccione88]

DOA, Volquez does have some durability issues. But given Hamilton past, and the rate of relapse for crack cocaine, Hamilton is just as likely to turn back to drugs, and be out of baseball forever. I am with you though, I like the trade for the Rangers, but I do not think the Reds came out too bad either. Considering that he may not have gotten along with everyone, and they had Bruce coming up.

[danzig6767]

You said the same thing about Volquez last year when the Reds traded Hamilton for him.

 

 

And I'd still rather have Hamilton than Volquez, for that matter. Josh is oodles more valuable, and he isn't one pitch away from being out for 1.5 years.

Why do you bring up the so and so pitcher "is one pitch away from being out for 1.5 years" in nearly anything involving the Brewers signing or acquiring a pitcher somehow?

 

Obviously pitchers can get hurt at anytime, but so what, good luck trying to win without quality pitching. By that line of thinking, Tampa should have paralyzed themselves in fear that Garza was one pitch from blowing out his elbow or shoulder, so they shouldn't have traded a top hitting prospect in D.Young to get Garza.

 

Pitchers are a bigger injury risk than position players, that's a sizable reason they are such valuable commodity. If a GM spends all his time unable to pull the trigger on moves to acquire quality pitching because he can't get over his fear they are one pitch from serious injury, that GM will face a big uphill battle trying to win because quality pitching is a necessity.

[dadofandrew]

Because pitchers are riskier, as you stated. Giving up a position player for a pitcher is especially dangerous, that's why you often see a trade like Garza/Young and the first thought is, Garza is a great young pitcher...that's because Garza is better, but has more risk.

 

That's why the idea of trading a proven SS like Hardy for a young arm whose talent is higher than his production is so offensive to me.

[danzig6767]

I'm certainly in no huge rush to trade Hardy and wouldn't consider trading JJ for a guy like Sanchez as the center piece of a trade. That said, it wouldn't be because Sanchez might get hurt, it would be because i don't think Sanchez would be good enough value. Yea he's a hard throwing young lefty, but that hasn't translated enough into getting out big league hitters. JJ is to good at what he does to trade him for a guy simply based on hoping Sanchez can stop walking guys. If though Sanchez had better production, no question i'd strongly consider a trade involving those two.

 

The other caveat i'd add is if JJ would be willing to move to 3rd after this season and stay long term at acceptable financial terms for both him and the Brewers.

[sheetskout]

I'm not completely sure I would do Hardy for Matt Cain much less Sanchez.

[Crewin06]

I'm not completely sure I would do Hardy for Matt Cain much less Sanchez.

Really?

 

I would think Hardy for Cain right now would be a no brainer.

 

A pitcher that threw up a 3.76 ERA and placed in the top 15 in K's and IP doesn't interest you. I mean forget the fact that he just turned 24 or is under contract for 3 more years. How can't you do a Cain for Hardy swap?

 

I know it's a pipe dream but Cain for Hardy and re-sign CC

 

CC

Cain

Gallardo

Parra

Bush

 

Suppan goes to the pen. Sorry back to reality.

[kmcasper23]

That rotation looks good, but Sup making $12 mil a year won't go to the pen. I like Cain but I think JJ is one of the young players I would like to continue to build around. If they would take Prince for Cain sign me up.

[Ennder]

I would think Hardy for Cain right now would be a no brainer

 

I'm not sure I'd do it either to be honest. Cain has been abused pretty badly at a young age. He has a career ERA of 4.17 on the road and that is against a weak hitting division. He gives up more BB's than I'd like and is a pretty heavy flyball pitcher which means he walks a pretty fine line between success and mediocrity. My money would be on a 4.20-4.70 ERA for Cain as a Brewer which is ok but not sure that is worth Hardy.

 

We also dont' have a viable backup at SS so we'd be stuck with Escobar or Hall playing full time and I think both would be a disaster.

[endaround]

Yep, Cain's success is all due to low HRs allowed which for a flyball pitcher isn't something to bank on continuing outside the NL West. He's a guy the Giants would be smart to trade, see him implode a bit and then sign him as a FA in three years time