Daddy drinks because I cry (and throw tantrums, scream naughty words...etc)

[Hammer]

Are there any other parents out here that have children in the 2-3.5 y/o range? My son is 3 months short of 3 years old and is obviously right in the middle of the terrible two's. He is learning phrases like "shut up" and "I hate you" at daycare of late and those seem to be getting to my wife and I. He also insists on doing everything by himself and if we try to help with anything like putting his socks/shoes on he throws himself on the floor and screams bloody murder!

I know that patience is a virtue but I mine is starting to fray a bit. Do any of you have any tips or tricks on how you were able to break these types of habits? I'm not much of the "I'll give you a treat if you stop doing that" type but I am willing to try almost anything.

[dadofandrew]

Shut up and I hate you are unacceptable, and our son would lose privileges. Take away his outdoor playing or Wii...that will quickly wise the little fella up.

 

Yelling and screaming is not tolerated in our house either. No exceptions. As soon as he realizes who is in charge, and his fun things are a result of his behavior, the behavior will improve.

[JimH5]

A lot of it is just the age.

 

And I can't offer any advice on "breaking the habits", other than being very consistent with whatever you do. You're not going to break his habits, HE is, when he's ready to do so.

 

My four year old daughter was a nightmare during most of her Age 3 year. She absolutely had to be the winner in everything, even stuff that wasn't really a game. She wouldn't listen, had to be in charge of every aspect of the world around her, including her parents. We had to leave restaurants a couple of times because she wouldn't be good. I pulled her out of a grocery store once, and made it very clear, right in her face that it wasn't okay to do what she was doing. Not a happy memory, with her screaming and aghast shoppers gawking.

 

One thing that was marginally effective was to tell her that I wasn't going to talk to her until she talked nicely. I think what she really wanted was a reaction from me, and I wasn't going to give her one.

 

We did try to keep her on a very consistent routine, with bed time at 7:00-7:30 every night. And that meant us missing out on a lot of stuff that would have been fun for us. And we had to show her consistency with our own behavior, as my wife and I don't yell at each other.

 

And when your son gets better, it isn't going to happen overnight. But eventually he will.

[colbyjack]

One thing my wife and I try to do when our son is throwing a tantrum is to start singing. Quite often he'll say "no, stop that," to which we respond "if we can't sing you're going to have to." It is surprising how often this works. I pulled this yesterday morning when he was mega-crabby, and he responded by humming/muttering the Sesame Street song in a very disgruntled fashion, of which it was very hard not to laugh or even break a smile.

 

The times he doesn't say "no, stop that" he will usually sing and/or dance with us.

 

Now, I'm not sure if this works effectively because we sing a lot (or at least more than mentally stable people do), so you may have to alter this to something that works for you.

 

I agree, don't resort to rewarding him for bad behavior. I don't think you'll ever break those habits, as the other comments have noted that you'll probably just have to wait for your child to outgrow them, but there are clever ways to re-direct his attention. You have to stand your ground, even if that is in a public place when bad behavior can make it that much more frustrating.

 

Do you use time outs? We don't use them much, and of course they're harder to do when you're short on time, but they are effective.

[temke]

my oldest will be 3 in december. we also have a 2 month old. thankfully she likes the baby, but she knows when we are holding a sleeping baby she can get away with murder.

 

she is in an in home daycare so she doesnt get so many bad "habits" but she has definitely learned how to test and push us.

 

ignoring tantrums help. many times they just want attention.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

I also have a son a couple months short of 3. As Al said, if you make fun things contingent on them behaving that can go a long way (e.g. no Saturday morning cartoons if you don't wear a coat and get in the car right away). The hardest part is actually enforcing it if they do not comply, so the key is choosing things you are comfortable with. Sometimes taking away that fun thing can be worse on the parent than it is on the child. If you use that time Saturday morning to relax or get things done around the house, you are making it tough on yourself, and you are also setting yourself up for wanting to back out and not enforce what you said.

 

We struggle because we try so hard to make sure we have a happy home, and it is heartbreaking sometimes to have to take things away and make him sad. We have to remind ourselves daily that we have to think big picture and not just focus on the short-term.

[temke]

MNShady wrote: Sometimes taking away that fun thing can be worse on the parent than it is on the child.

for example, never tell a child they cant go to bernie brewer's house (what mine calls miller park) if they are naughty!

[Hammer]

Thanks for the suggestions all! MNShady hit the nail on the head w/ the "We struggle because we try so hard to make sure we have a happy home, and it is heartbreaking sometimes to have to take things away and make him sad. We have to remind ourselves daily that we have to think big picture and not just focus on the short-term. " portion. We are trying so hard to not be the rough, strict and disciplinarian parents. But at the same time, we realize that we are the parents and not his buddies. This is very tough as my son and I are "fishing buddies" and "bowling buddies".

I am going to try the loss of fun things from DOA and the I'm not talking to you until he has something nice to say approach from JimH because if my little boy would go without us speaking to him while in the same room for 3 minutes he would almost go crazy.

 

Thanks again for the suggestions!!

[Teatoe993]

Just think of what Joe Jackson (Jackson 5 father) would do. Make him build a brick wall all summer long. And when he finishes it, tell him "Don't ever tell me there isn't anything you can't do."

[lukevan]

Ignoring or distracting from bad behavior goes a long way. Sometimes if my g/f's son (3 years old, almost 4) is throwing a tantrum over some miniscule detail we'll ignore him and just continue a conversation or start mockingly crying until he starts to smile or tells us to stop. He realizes on his own that he is being silly and forgets what he was so upset about. Taking away cartoons or treats works sometimes too. Kids at this age are tough and you have to trust that they won't hate you for long when you are tough on them.

[mothershipconnection]

Are there any other parents out here that have children in the 2-3.5 y/o range? My son is 3 months short of 3 years old and is obviously right in the middle of the terrible two's. He is learning phrases like "shut up" and "I hate you" at daycare of late and those seem to be getting to my wife and I. He also insists on doing everything by himself and if we try to help with anything like putting his socks/shoes on he throws himself on the floor and screams bloody murder!

 

Honestly, this may sound cold, but about the best procedure for that problem is to physically prompt your child through that response multiple times. That is, if he throws a fit when being assisted through putting on his jacket, you (without delivering eye contact or saying a word) "assist" him in putting on his jacket over and over again until he stops crying and throwing a tantrum. Then, prompt the appropriate response: "I want to do it myself". This way, he learns that he'll never get what he wants by throwing himself on the floor, but will get what he wants by calmly asking for it.

 

If that approach doesn't fit your parenting philosophy, a time out may be just as effective.

 

I know that patience is a virtue but I mine is starting to fray a bit. Do any of you have any tips or tricks on how you were able to break these types of habits? I'm not much of the "I'll give you a treat if you stop doing that" type but I am willing to try almost anything.

 

Bargaining with a child once he has engaged in problem behavior is a recipe for absolute disaster. This teaches him that once he's behaving inappropriately, he will be able to access fun things that he wouldn't have been offered if he were good to begin with. Never allow a child to earn the same desired items and activities they can get when they're good during or shortly after episodes of problem behavior. Think about it, if your boss only offered you a raise to shut you up after you acted like a jerk in a meeting and then called in sick 4 days in a row, you'd have good reason to act like an awful employee. If he only gave you a raise after you'd completed a huge task flawlessly ahead of schedule, you'll probably continue to try to be a model worker.

 

 

You have to stand your ground, even if that is in a public place when bad behavior can make it that much more frustrating.

 

Absolutely. Never, EVER, state that a consequence will be delivered when it will not. If you do, your verbal consequences and statements will have little to no effect, thus, you'll need to mechanically deliver any consequences for them to be effective. Once your child learns "if daddy says no cartoons, that means no cartoons". you'll be able to lay down rules they'll follow because your rules mean something and aren't hollow words. If you do this effectively, you'll spend way less time yelling and putting your child in time out.

 

On the topic of time out, while it's a very effective procedure, it has to be implemented correctly. Time out means time out from everything, and that includes your attention - physical, eye contact, even reprimands. When time out is warranted, tell the child calmly and dryly "No [problem behavior], time out". Escort them to a designated area where they don't have access to fun things, and make them sit there for a designated period. Research shows that behavior-based (child gets out X minutes after problem behavior ceases) and time-based (time out ends after set time, regardless of behavior during time out) are equally effective. At the end of the time out, calmly state, "your time out is over. [restate rule, such as 'no hitting']". I pretty much go 3-minutes across the board for my clients and adjust accordingly (severe problems require stronger consequences).

 

 

The hardest part is actually enforcing it if they do not comply, so the key is choosing things you are comfortable with.

 

Yeah, you've gotta follow through, never threaten a consequence you can't deliver.

 

Always remember that ignoring means acting as if the child is not there. If you're making eye contact or acknowledging his presence at all, you aren't ignoring.

 

For those fits in the store because the kid wants something, you have to either give in IMMEDIATELY, or never give in at all. If you give in immediately, you do reinforce problem behavior, but you reinforce a very brief problem behavior that will not last an hour next time when he can't get it. The child will then learn, "either daddy gives in as soon as I cry, or he'll never give in", so he'll only cry for a few seconds and then give up when he didn't get what he wants.

 

There's a valid parallel between problem behavior in children and gambling. If they never pay off, the gambler never gambles and the kid never tantrums. If they pay off randomly, behaviors are strong because the next coin, the next tantrum, could produce the jackpot. Be a broken slot machine and your kid will stop pumping in quarters.

[Patrick425]

So, how do these time outs work? You tell the kid time out and he goes and sits quietly for the duration of the time out?

 

I heard of this strategy, but never tried it on my kid when he was that age. If my kid was throwing one of his tantrums, there was no way he was going to cooperate with a time out. I wished it was that easy.

 

My only advice, and I'm not claiming to be a perfect parent by any means, would be to try to exercise as much patience as possible, remain calm, and realize that they will grow out of that stage before too long.

[Chio151]

My son will be 3 in January. This morning we had a 45 minute tantrum because he didn't want to leave the house. Keep your patience. Do not get angry. If needed, ignore him or ask questions calmly. Make sure they cave before you.

 

We do 'mommy time outs' and 'daddy time outs'. Mommy ignores him. Daddy hovers sternly. He likes mommy time outs better, which means that daddy is usually tier-two support.

[dadofandrew]

Our son has been bothered of late because of his cold medicine.

 

A while back, my wife found an online search that said how bad behavior and Zyrtec were linked. We took him off that (allergies) and noticed improvement overnight. Keep these things in mind too.

[Hammer]

We actually just yanked him out of a store this evening due to a tantrum. The only thing that stopped the tantrum was putting him in his car seat and ignoring him (while my wife was still shopping). It then turned into an "I want Mommy" tantrum. He turned a really neat shade of red and screamed until his voice wouldn't work any more. We got home and he spent another 2 minutes in time out...alone in his room. IT WORKED!! He stopped crying, said he was sorry for being naughty and said that he didn't want timeouts anymore. We let him know that every time he threw a tantrum he would be put in his room for 2 minutes. 2 minutes is an eternity for my kid to sit alone in a room so that "threat" may just work http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif