off-season trade market

[PrinceFielder28]

I like Gregg and Uggla, but what would we trade to acquire either of them. They for sure wouldn't be interested in high salary guys. So then we have to look at our minor league guys.

[yoshii8]

The Marlins seem to target high ceiling prospects that are almost ready when trading there high salary or arby guys. I would think that we would have to offer a nice group of prospects in the Cain, Green, Gillespe range. I think it would be worth it to add Uggla to our lineup, he hits righties very well. I would also like to somehow sign Orlando Hudson, or trade for Brian Roberts to solve our leadoff woes.

[nate82]

An interesting trade could be Corey Hart to the Rays for Carl Crawford only has one year left on his contract before he hits free agency. Both Crawford and Hart had a down year. This would be selling low for both the Rays would get Hart who would be a cheaper version of Crawford. The Brewers would get a left handed version of Hart.

[MNBrew]

change the complexion of their offense (better BA, 2x as many SBs, & tons fewer Ks) but still are no better off OBP-wise unless Pierre "regresses" to his form of the first 5 years of his career.

 

Huge drop in SLG at the CF position which would make our offense worse despite the things he would add.

Not necessarily. It's all in how you see it. Yeah, fewer HRs. But both Sveum & Braun said outright in the Game 4 postgame quotes that for the team to advance deeper into the playoffs, they needed to change the complexion of their offense and couldn't be so reliant on the HR. Cameron is one of the most guilty all-or-nothing hitters on the team, right up there with Hall & Weeks. Both Pierre & Cameron have their faults and their plusses. Pick your poison, so to speak.

 

You can't change the overall complexion of the lineup without changing some of the players. The SLG doesn't have to be killer at every position. At some position they need to sacrifice a bit of power for a more well-rounded overall offensive game.

 

Pierre has about $28M coming the next 3 years. Suppan has around $25M coming the next 2 years. Pierre's is better spread out, which would open a little more room over the next two years. And the net loss of Cameron & Suppan in return for Pierre leaves CF well-manned with another $10M -- besides the $10M of Sheets, the $10M of Gagne, & the $3.2M each from Turnbow & Capuano & possibly Counsell, too -- available for player acquisitions with 3B, #5 IF, upper-end starter, & the bullpen as the main needs to addressed.

[MNBrew]

Interesting that Troy Glaus could've been had last winter after a down '07, and that Scott Rolen was apparently in Melvin's trade sights. Glaus had a strong year and Rolen battled injuries.

 

Any chance the Crew can trade Hall for Rolen & some contract relief and hope to recapture lightning in a bottle for a one-year fix at 3B? That's assuming Hardy doesn't end up there.

 

On the Dan Uggla idea, walks at a rate not unlike Fielder and therefore has a decent OBP. However, the guy has a K rate that would keep local windmills spinning strong all summer. Given that, I'm not sure he's a perfect solution to the Brewers' present woes.

[logan82]

MNBrew wrote:

Not necessarily. It's all in how you see it. Yeah, fewer HRs. But both Sveum & Braun said outright in the Game 4 postgame quotes that for the team to advance deeper into the playoffs, they needed to change the complexion of their offense and couldn't be so reliant on the HR. Cameron is one of the most guilty all-or-nothing hitters on the team, right up there with Hall & Weeks. Both Pierre & Cameron have their faults and their plusses. Pick your poison, so to speak.

If Peirre was expected to have a higher OBP than Cameron, it might make sense to trade SLG for OBP, but what you are talking about is trading SLG for basestealing ans fewer strikeouts. Neither basestealing or fewer strikeouts would make up for the loss of SLG. Cameron is a better hitter. If we would replace him it should be with a better OBP and similar OPS not similar OBP and 71 fewer points of OPS(using career stats). 154 points of OPS this year and 109 points of OPS over their 2005-2007 splits.

 

 

Edit: Pierre's stats are a pretty close comparison to Jason Kendall other than the SB.

[MNBrew]

Logan, you keep replying solely based on the OPS & SLG points. That's not the whole argument.

 

- Pierre struck out nearly 120 times fewer than Cameron. That means the ball was in play. While some of those times may have been DPs, most weren't, which gave Pierre 120 more chances at productive outs -- move up a baserunner, rush the fielders to increase the chances of an error, etc.

 

- Pierre's nearly 40 points higher BA stands to be better even though the OBP is comparable because runners can advance more than one base on a hit but not on a walk.

 

The Brewers could've scored more runs if they'd just gotten more hits and had more productive outs. They failed in part because they didn't do those things, instead being more all-or-nothing. The ALL moments were worth it in and of themselves. But all the NOTHINGS eventually killed them.

 

The Brewers eventually lost not because of their pitching but because of their hitting. It wasn't the HRs they did hit. It was everything else they couldn't do when they weren't hitting HRs. They need more players to do more of those other things in order to have a better overall balance in their lineup.

[jjfanec]

Doesn't Pierre have a really weak arm for a CF? He has a bad contract, no power, and is not the overall defender Cameron is. However, he does strikeout much less. But I just dont think his contact makes up for his lack of power and not being as good a fielder as Cameron. We would be on the hook for that contract for more time than we would with Cameron. The only way it works is if we can trade a bad contract back like Bill Hall or Jeff Suppan.

[endaround]

No OBP and SLG pretty much is the whole argument. Everything else just doesn't matter enough to weigh when the players are as dissimilar as Pierre and Cameron. Cameron is a good player, Pierre is a bad player how they make their outs doesn't matter.

[rousieboy]

I would rather have a Dwayne Wise-like career fringe guy than a Juan Pierre and his bloated contract...even if you are moving Suppan...

 

Gagne was bad enough and he was just a one year deal...

 

find some kids, take a chance on players making less than 500K before you lock into the long term.

[EbbaStClaire]

Just sign Baldelli and allow him to share the position with Gwynn with Hall and Hart as emergency backups. Baldelli's contract should be reasonable considering his injury and illness status. Maybe they lose a little defense with Baldelli compared to Cameron but Gwynn can play centerfield. Offensively there may not be much difference but that probably depends on how many games Baldelli plays. Both Gwynn and Baldelli could hit #1 or #2 (which I would think is best). Cameron certainly didn't make the catches at the end of the season that I think a Gold Glove Centerfielder should make and except for a couple of weeks in August I thought he was an average hitter at best. He misses a lot of balls with the bat. The dollar savings by not picking up Cameron's option certainly could be used elsewhere.

[yoshii8]

What about signing Joe Crede to be our 3b this year? I'm not sure if his back will hold up, but he had a .910 OPS against righties last season in over 250 Ab's, doesn't strike out, and is a good 3rd baseman. I realize he has a low OBP, but this would allow us to try to acquire a switch hitter second baseman like Brian Roberts or Orlando Hudson to help with OBP and make our infield D a lot better.

 

He probably could be signed to a 1-2 year deal w/ mostly incentives because of his injury issues. Would he be worth the gamble of signing a 1 year 6 million dollar deal w/ an option for '2010?

[MNBrew]

I'm not passing judgement on the Joe Crede idea one way or another. But I do find myself wondering if this will now be the 3rd or the 4th consecutive offseason we keep hearing his name tossed around. His name always seems to be popping up in these discussions on this site.

[yoshii8]

I just brought his name up because of his free agent status, and our bad situation at 3rd base. Being from Minnesota, I'm guessing you've been able to see him play a lot, so how would you feel if he was signed to a 1 or 2 year deal?

[PaulRigdon]

what about joey gathright from the royals?

[MNBrew]

I just brought his name up because of his free agent status, and our bad situation at 3rd base. Being from Minnesota, I'm guessing you've been able to see him play a lot, so how would you feel if he was signed to a 1 or 2 year deal?

I think it's easy to look at Joe Crede as an improvement over Hall because we don't see him everyday. My guess is that the equivalent White Sox fans to BF.net posters would look at Crede in a similar way as many of us look at Bill Hall. The potential is there. The likelihood of him reaching that level of performance consistently seems less and less as time goes by, and that's before factoring in significant time missed for injuries the past two years. At least Hall's been healthy. At least Crede's a natural 3B. Hall could play at an All-Star level next year. So could Crede. There seems to be good reason to suspect that neither actually will.

 

I understand the logic for looking at Crede. I think the Brewers could do appreciably better -- not that I've thought through it enough to have suggestions yet.

[Hate those Rodents]

Of names that always seem to get brought up or used to...Frank Catalanatto undisputedly tops the list.

[MNBrew]

Catalanatto's name will probably keep coming up even after he's finally retired -- and a year later the Brewers can finally sign him, a la the other BF.net eternal favorite, Gabe Kapler.

[piccione88]

According to Joel Sherman, Dodgers catcher Russell Martin is available. I dont think the Brewers would have much interest, given what it would take to get him, and no glaring need at the position, but you never know.

[nate82]

According to Joel Sherman, Dodgers catcher Russell Martin is available. I dont think the Brewers would have much interest, given what it would take to get him, and no glaring need at the position, but you never know.

I wonder if Martin could play 3B. The only problem would be who would the Brewers trade to get Martin. The Dodgers key concern would be pitching but I don't see why that would be since they have Kershaw, Billingsley, and Kuroda in the rotation next year if they resign Lowe they would still have a good 1-4 pitching staff.

 

Maybe a deal that sends Bush, Rivera, and Escobar for Martin would work. I'm not sure I would do that since you would be giving up a lot for someone that you may not need. If Martin could play 3B it would be a smart move but still not one I would do because of the pitching you would have to give up to get Martin and I just wouldn't give up pitching to get someone like Martin.

[endaround]

If you want a mediocre hitting 3B, sign Blake.

[nate82]

If you want a mediocre hitting 3B, sign Blake.

There was only 5 players who had an OPS in the upper 800's at 3B. If Martin would have had an OPS like he did in 2007 which is where I believe he will be close to be around he would be in the top 7 of all MLB 3B in OPS. If Martin moved from the Dodgers to Milwaukee his slugging would improve which means he would have a higher OPS. Not to mention he improved on his BB's and K's this year.

 

I believe if Martin would switch from the Dodgers to the Brewers he could increase his OPS from this year from .781 to .860 - .875. It would be somewhere around there. I wouldn't call that a mediocre hitting 3B.

[yoshii8]

Why would you trade for an all-star catcher in the prime of his career, and then move him to a different position? The only reason they played him at 3rd a few times last season is to keep him fresh so he could play everyday.

 

I understand that Russell Martin is a great player, but I'd much rather spend some of the prospects it would take to get him on a lefty hitting 3b/ 2b, leadoff hitter, or an ace pitcher.

[endaround]

Based on what would Martin suddenly get 100 points of OPS? The guy has no home road split to speak off, there is little proof he isn't what he he is, a very good catcher who shouldn't be moved to devalue his offense.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

It would be a dreadful waste to convert Martin to any other position full-time, since he can catch and can hit, which is a pretty rare combination.

 

Considering what Martin would likely cost in talent, I don't really see any way the Brewers make a play for him unless the Dodgers would take Kendall as part of the package of players for Martin. You probably don't want to end up paying Kendall 4.6 mil to be a seldom-used backup and probably a royal pain in the butt to boot.