Hall for Teahen.

[dadofandrew]

Because SS's do not hit as a rule. Hall, with his pop and his career numbers, still has value there. Guys that make $6-7M have no value as utility guys.

[JohnBriggs12]

I agree with Al. Hall has value as a SS. He did put up a big season in 06 as a SS and it's likely he'll bounce back at least to his 07 numbers of .254/.315/.425 which are ok at SS for some teams. Throw in the fact that having once put up an .898 OPS, there's always the potential of doing it again and teams know that.

[Ennder]

Ok lets say Hall puts up a .254/.315/.425 line. Looking at SS with at least 400 PA last year he would have finished 13th in OPS out of 25 players. Tulo is clearly better than him defensively and he is the person right below him so 14th out of 25. I'll take my odds on Tejada over Hall as well so 15th of 25. Then you get to Harris, Cabrera who both run better than Hall and are better defensively so 17th out of 25. next we see Renteria, Scutaro, Betancourt types which is probably where Hall belongs.

 

So yeah he has a little value as one of the worst SS in baseball and some team is going to want to trade for this? Hall has almost no trade value in my mind unless a team specifically needs a guy that can fill in all over the place. Teams in contention won't want him playing full time and teams not in contention don't want a player with a bloated contract that will be a FA soon taking up a spot that a younger guy could be getting his reps at.

 

A team like the A's would make some sense since they have so many injury question marks in their IF. The Brewers arent' a bad fit either since we will likely have a question mark at 3B and who knows what Weeks will give us at 2b.

[dadofandrew]

13th of 25 is exactly in the middle, and never mind 5 teams used platoons or several players to cover one spot. There may be a few teams that can't afford him, or do not like his style (the Twins fit both counts), but he'd make 12-15 teams better, and he has the ceiling to improve even more than that.

 

Heck, if the Crew finds a home for JJ, I'd probably prefer at least a couple months of Hall to burning a pre-arby/free agency season of Alcides.

[Crewin06]

Like others have said I don't see Hall as having much trade value at all right now.

 

If the Royals would want to do a Bill Hall for a PTBNL right now I would do it. Even if the PTBNL turned out to be Ben Hendrickson. I would still do it. Does Ben still pitch for the Royals by the way.

 

Honestly I can't see any team trading for Bill Hall right now except if someone else had a contract like Suppan's and was looking to get rid of it. hey maybe we can get the Royals to look at Suppan also.

[nate82]

Hall couldn't do any worse than this

Yes that is Tony Pena Jr. the starting SS for the Royals for the majority of the year. Even if Hall put up numbers that he did this year it would still be better than anything the Royals could put on the field at SS right now.

2008 Season Stats
SPLITS	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	SO	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
Season	95	225	22	38	4	1	1	14	6	49	3	1	.169	.189	.209	.398

[Ennder]

Well true I'm sure the Royals would take him if they didn't have to give anything up and Teahen probably counts as not giving anything up. The original trade probably does make some sense. I just don't think Hall has any real value. We would be getting back some below average player in order to move him because he is a below average player himself.

[nate82]

Well true I'm sure the Royals would take him if they didn't have to give anything up and Teahen probably counts as not giving anything up. The original trade probably does make some sense. I just don't think Hall has any real value. We would be getting back some below average player in order to move him because he is a below average player himself.

The Royals would take Hall because he can play in a variety of different positions that they need help in. SS, 3B?, 2B, and possibly OF. 3B only because I don't believe Gordon will be staying at 3B. I believe they will be moving him to 1B I don't believe Gordon is a good 3B defensively and he will be better suited at playing 1B.

 

That leaves a hole at 2B, SS, and 3B which Hall can play all three of them and the OF if needed. But Hall's value to the Royals is about the same to the Brewers as a platoon player the value is rather high. With the Royals they need either a SS or a 2B Pena Jr. is not going to cut it with his anemic stats and that is being nice.

 

I don't see any other options for the Royals that are out in the market or in their farm system that will be as good as Hall. If they had them they would have replaced Pena earlier in the season. Hall for Teahen is a wash. I wouldn't mind getting DeJesus but it looks more and more likely that the Royals want to hang onto him the same with Teahen also.

 

Defensively Hall would make sense for the Royals at SS with Aviles moving over to 2B next year for the Royals. I just don't see who we would get from the Royals since I believe Teahen and DeJesus are not going to be traded. Maybe Jose Guillen would be available but I wouldn't want to touch him with a 100 foot pole.

 

I don't see the Royals being a good trading partner when you are talking about Hall.

[3Putt]

I can't see the Royals trading for a below average SS just because he's slightly better than their well below average SS. Hall has no upside on offense, defense, baserunning or any of the intangeables. We can hope they'd be crazy enough to take him off our hands but I see negative value.

[nate82]

I can't see the Royals trading for a below average SS just because he's slightly better than their well below average SS. Hall has no upside on offense, defense, baserunning or any of the intangeables. We can hope they'd be crazy enough to take him off our hands but I see negative value.

At SS Hall is an average SS both defensively and offensively. I believe Hall will bounce back and be between what he did in 2006 and 2007. Which would be something like .255/.330/.450

 

From http://www.baseballthinkf...ctions_milwaukee_brewers/

 <font><font size="2">[b]SHORTSTOPS[/b] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Name P Age AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS RNG AVERAGE Bill Hall 3b 29 .248 .315 .445 135 452 65 112 31 2 18 69 44 133 5 5 Fr </font></font> 

If Hall did that he would be in the top 10 of SS in OPS. That is very valuable where the Royals are not getting anything near that on their team. I wish people would look things up before saying something. Hall has value as a SS and a utility player to teams. The value is there it is just not known how much value there is.

[kramnoj]

Hall has value as a SS and a utility player to teams.

 

The key word in that sentence is value. I don't know that Hall at $15M+ over the next two years is of value to the Royals. There are teams that may value him for those reasons at that money, maybe the Orioles if they can't get some of the attractive FA on the market.

 

Also, in reference to the listed chart, the Fair rating for Hall at SS indicates that ZiPs rates Hall as below average, in the 21-40% lower quintile.

[nate82]

Also, in reference to the listed chart, the Fair rating for Hall at SS indicates that ZiPs rates Hall as below average, in the 21-40% lower quintile.

I don't agree with ZiPs rates for the defense especially when Counsell gets a Vg um ok which is the same rating Escobar got. I'm guessing that means they have a high rating so I'm not really sure why Counsell has such a high rating. Hardy has the same rating as Hall.

 

I don't really like ZiPs ratings for defense very well.

[dadofandrew]

Even if Hall only projects as "average", he had a 900 OPS a couple years ago, meaning he's not a bad bet at all to have a 800 OPS either in '09 or '10. That type of upside is what you'd never get from Craig Counsell, but Hall provides.

[kramnoj]

I'm guessing that means they have a high rating so I'm not really sure why Counsell has such a high rating.

 

I don't know the specifics of ZiPs defense, but ZR is the most available PBP metric, and Counsell does well there compared to Hardy, who was 14th this year among qualified SS and 20th last year. Counsell's ZR would have been 4th in 2008 and 2nd in 2007 in limited innings.

[Ennder]

In 2007 Counsell was one of the best defensive players in baseball is probably why. In 2008 his defense slipped some though.