If CC and Sheets both walk...

[Hate those Rodents]

how does that change your off-season plan? Are you more willing to trade Fielder and/or Hardy? Are you more willing to let Gamel and Escobar be in the everyday lineup? Let me know what your thoughts are on how your offseason plans and plans for next season would change.

[GB12]

The vast majority of people assume both leave when they make an off-season plan.

[rluzinski]

I assume that they will both leave and the Brewers can steal compete for the wild card. And part of getting there might include trading Fielder for a major league ready starting pitcher.

[alorrigan]

If they we don't resign either of them we will have some money to work with but probably should hold on to it. I don't think there's much we can do in free agency without being ridiculous. If we can keep CC, yay! I we can keep Sheets, yippee! If we can keep both, yippee yay! Either way I think Fielder needs to be gone this off season. Not because of what he will cost in the bank but what he will cost in the field. Either way we need to keep Hardy too. My off-season plan isn't dependant on what happens with CC or Sheets. It depends on what we can get for Fielder.

 

EDIT: Finally hit 100 posts! Only took about 3 years.

DOUBLE EDIT: Actually 4 years. I'm such a loser that I only post 25 times a year.

[BREWCREW5]

The reason I "hang my hat" on brewerfan.net is because for the majority, the posters on here are smart and at the same time pretty reasonable.

 

Im pretty certain that most on here know that CC and Sheets are gone. We may hope that CC signs with the Crew but we all know that CC will get blown away with cash from someone else.

 

My offseason plan is one of the stars getting traded for a starting pitcher regardless.

[Ennder]

I think a more stretched out Parra and a healthy Gallardo completely replaces one of them. We need to sign someone to replace the other but it doesn't need to be a stud. The offense should be improved next year and will make up any slippage in the starting rotation.

 

Gallardo, Parra, Some guy, Bush, Suppan, McClung is a decent enough front 6. I'd rather the pitcher we add slots in ahead of Gallardo but as long as he is better than Bush/Suppan I think we are ok.

[dadofandrew]

With the career stats of Yo, and the '08 numbers of the 4 other projected starters, the Crew is about 4o runs worse than they were this year. Considering they won several more games than they should have, they likely project to a 82 win team, or thereabouts, at this second. I'm not sure if you can project more than a 2-3 win improvement from internal growth or not. More than likely, the team probably figures they are about an 84 win team right now, and knows they need to add a minimum of SP depth, as the drop off from McClung to #6 would be huge.

[MessiahRp]

Personally I assume both walk but I don't think we compete for anything next year unless we upgrade big time at SP. I like Yo and Parra but I don't know that either is ready to be top of the rotation guys. Bush is streaky and Suppan is flat out awful. I also don't see anyone on the market we can compete for financially that will be a gamechanger top of the rotation guy.

 

Also unless Gamel is able to duplicate the not so common immediate success of Ryan Braun, trading Prince is going to leave a huge hole in our offense for next year.

 

Rp

[GB12]

I assume that they will both leave and the Brewers can steal compete for the wild card. And part of getting there might include trading Fielder for a major league ready starting pitcher.

 

I'm not picking on you or anything, but that is one of the weirdest typos I've seen.

[mothershipconnection]

I think our best case scenario for these two is that they're signed by the Dodgers and Blue Jays so we get the best possible picks (without either going to StL or the 1/1billion shot of signing with FL).

[GAME05]

i'm lukewarm on resigning Sheets just on expected return vs. risk and salary. and of course CC is awesome, but i'd rather $25 million a year go to an everyday player than a pitcher.

 

great starting pitching is nice, and we could have an ok/average rotation without those two. plus if Hall, Fielder and Weeks or a combination were to be flipped, our infield defense should look better, making our starting rotation look better. it's why i'm an Escobar fan, though indifferent to Escobar himself.

 

plus i think we only got 80% of what Fielder, Hart and Braun can really do offensively this year, and i am expecting an improvement next year, so i think an improved offense and infield defense will make up for some amount of a weakened starting rotation.

 

i look at Houston and how well they played this year considering they only had one real starting pitcher.

[Ennder]

Houston had a 75 win team that got hot and overproduced, don't think they are a good model to look at unless you want to just hope we win more games than our talent level suggests.

[Oldcity]

I think I'm with Ennder. I wouldn't trade Hardy, Fielder or any other main offensive piece to gain pitching. The Brewers don't have major league ready replacements, so it would be filling one hole by creating another. When they traded LaPorta, it kept Fielder around at least another year.

[Ennder]

I personally think Gamel is the replacement for Fielder longterm and 3B is a position we should look at fixing this year. Hardy is the SS for now with Escobar maybe filling in if he proves to be major league quality which I'm not convinced of yet. Weeks is the 2B with maybe Hall/Durham splitting some time with him. Hart comes back at RF for better or worse and Braun at LF. My guess is we stick with Cameron because there just isn't much else out there to replace him with and Kendall vested his option so he is the C.

 

So our offensive upgrades with experience and with replacing the 3B. Our pitching probably stagnates or regresses (we were 2nd in the NL in ERA so not a big surprise). Overall we are still a 85-92 win team with a shot at the wild card.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

If both do leave, is Lowe an option? Obviously we've seen that signing a pitcher based on postseason success (he didn't win tonight, but pitched well). He's a guy I would target and I wouldn't mind going after Burnett either.

 

Either way, I see us signing a bigger name pitcher with the extra revenue. With a Lowe or Burnett, this team could be good with another year of experience.

[Ennder]

Lowe was an option before his post season success. Now he has gone all Suppan on us and is overpriced most likely. Especially for owners who realize he got hurt and that is why he gave up the 2 HR.

[Thats Freakin Sweet]

Well, if both CC and Sheets are gone (I'd like to see the Brewers resign CC, but...), I'd wonder what the likelihood of trading Prince, Suppan + mid-level prospect to Toronto for Halladay and Overbay is. Realistically that probably wouldn't happen, maybe if the prospect was a bit higher, it could go down.

 

I'd then like to see if they could retain Mike Lamb as a platoon-mate with Hall at 3B. Enter Spring Training giving Escobar a shot at SS, and convincing JJ to move to 2nd. I think that's a more feasible request as his offensive numbers won't be devalued, which they would be if he were at 3rd, meaning JJ wouldn't be drastically hurting himself by the move. I'd then see if it'd be possible to flip Weeks for a solid bullpen guy.

 

My lineup would be (against RHSP):

1st - Overbay

2nd - Hardy

SS - Escobar

3rd - Lamb

Left - Braun

Center - Cameron

Right - Hart

Catcher - Kendall

Bench - Nelson (1B/OF), Joe Dillon (IF/OF), Rivera ©, Hall (IF), Kapler (OF)

Positionally, that's a pretty flexible group, with enough guys that can play multiple positions to help out in short-term, non DL injuries

Starting Rotation: Halladay, Yo, Parra, Bush, McClung/Villy (winner TBD in ST)

Bully: Torres, Coffey, Stetter, Villy/McClung (the ST loser), Mota (if he's cheap), Dillard, Gagne (if he's cheap) or whomever is acquired in Weeks trade.

 

There's lots of 'ifs' and 'buts' in there, but that's what off-season speculation and insomnia is all about, no?

[BrewCrewForever]

I'm more willing to trade Fielder then Hardy for pitching. Hardy has gotten better each of the last two seasons at HR, SLG and OBP. And he was our best hitter in the playoffs. I want to keep him around at SS or 3B if he is willing when Escobar comes up.

[TheCrew07]

Hardy was excellent this post season but it was only 4 games, that screams sample size alert... JJ can definitely help carry the team for a short stretch, much like Braun and Fielder. However I don't weigh his success against the Phillies anymore than I do Fielder's lack of success against him.

[Chio151]

I'd really like to see Ryan Dempster up here, but I don't think that's reasonable either.

 

Agreed: Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Soup, McClung

 

Then, spend your money on a high OBP guy and a reliever? That, along with a couple extensions should do it.

[joepepsi]

Trade Escobar, Nelson, and a couple pitching prospects for Jeremy Guthrie.

[tristarscoop]

The reason I "hang my hat" on brewerfan.net is because for the majority, the posters on here are smart and at the same time pretty reasonable.

 

Im pretty certain that most on here know that CC and Sheets are gone. We may hope that CC signs with the Crew but we all know that CC will get blown away with cash from someone else.

My offseason plan is one of the stars getting traded for a starting pitcher regardless.

I agree with this and have thought this would be the case for quite awhile. I brought this up in the CC thread, but this is what scares me about the new, seemingly sudden push to keep CC. This whole season was presented as now or never and suddenly that seems to have turned around. I fully believe that Melvin, et al planned on trading Prince or JJ for pitching in the off-season and I worry that now that we're focusing on keeping CC instead that we're throwing the rest of our plan out the window.

[fallingleaves]

http://www.sportsbubbler....ayTopic.aspx?TopicID=2733

 

Our love/hate relationship with arbitration begins this year. I think the crew needs to consider not pick up cam's option, cutting Cappy and Council, letting Mota go simply because CC makes the difference if we contend for the playoffs each your or not.

 

Just think how easier it would have been to resign CC if we hadn't done the Suppan signing! Without CC, I just don't see us competing for a playoff position.

 

While next year I expect CC will have a down year (because of our abuse), I don't understand how posters think we can compete. I also think it is crazy that people are suggesting we trade Prince of Hardy, two of the three of our best offensive players. To be competitive as a small to mid size organization we need to keep guys through as many of the arby years as possible.

[rluzinski]

Unless Suppan is signed though 2014, I don't think his contract will be the reason that the Brewers don't sign CC. Everyone keeps talking abotu trying to free up money in 2009 and 2010 for CC but that's probably only accommodating a third of the contract length he's likely going to get.

[Ashford Lando]

While I continue to hold onto hope for resigning CC, he is gone. Additionally, if we do sign him, I wouldn't want it more than 3/$65; thus again, it won't happen.

 

I think we loose both SP, sign another veteran (Lowe would be great) and hope for the best with Yo and Manny. I think, if you can't trade him, you set Suppan as your #5 and look to fill in #3 and #4 -- giving McClung a solid chance at that. Bush -- I like him more than I did a year ago, but I have always liked his work ethic and attitude.

 

If Fielder must go, great -- I can't wait to see what we get for him. Please don't let JJ go... solid player that won't have that crazy contract.

 

As for Gamel and Escobar -- weren't they in Double A for the majority of this past year? Why so much discussion of them helping us out in '09? I just don't see it...

 

As mentioned, I see 2009 as a .500 year with progress in '10 and bigger things in '11.