Am I the only one who still isn't ready to give up on Rickie Weeks?

[derflotr]

I mean, other than Ned Yost.

 

Sue me, but I still think he could be a nice #6ish hitter in the current Brewers lineup. I feel like he's one of the only current Brewers that's willing to take a pitch or two per AB, and despite some boneheaded plays has shown flashes of brilliance at 2B. Not to mention he has great power coming from a second basemen. Seems to me he hasn't really hit any wallscrapers this year - his HRs have been monster shots.

 

I understand why Brewers fans would want him gone, but I can't help but wonder what could happen if you give the guy another chance to prove himself.

[zzzmanwitz]

Rickie seemed more comfortable outside of the leadoff position. He was 5th on the team in OBP. I think he will still some day become a gold glover. He has great range at 2nd.

 

I think we should sign him to a 5 year deal now. His price will be pretty low.

[Ennder]

I think he can become an above average offensive 2B and an average defensive one. I would like to see him stay out of the leadoff spot for a year though. While he slipped some defensively at the end of the year he was roughly average defensively most of the season.

[TooLiveBrew]

I definitely am not giving up on Weeks. He was fine at the plate (for a 2B) for the majority of the season, and as Ennder points out, his defense on the whole just isn't nearly as bad as some folks would have you believe (not saying he's good on D). Below are Rickie's month-by-month OPS tally:

 

.682

.696

.684

.769

.739

.944

 

I really believe that Weeks is just now starting to reach his offensive potential, and that dealing him this offseason would be selling on him at the wrong time. To me if you're one that wants to deal him, wait for the season where he flashes that .900-area OPS for the first two months or so & flip him for a salary-controlled SP. I personally think that Rickie will reach or at least get very close to his offensive ceiling, so I obviously don't want him gone yet.

 

Offensively, and admittedly just from looking at their stats, Brandon Phillips really had some similarities with Rickie at this point in their respective careers (around age 25). If Weeks grows into his power/bat the way Phillips has, he'll be someone the Brewers will deeply regret letting go. Imagine Phillips with a .360-ish OBP to go with his power -- that's great production at 2B, and I think it's reasonable to expect Weeks to continue some marginal improvements with the glove.

 

 

EDIT: Orlando Hudson is another 2B that took a while to 'click'. Hudson didn't start OPSing at an above-avg. level for a 2B until appx. his age-26 season. 2009 will be Rickie's age-26 season. In fact, in comparison with the offense of both Hudson & Phillips, Weeks turned in the best overall production of the 3 through their age-25 seasons. Heck, Mark Ellis didn't start really hitting until his age-28 season.

[logan82]

I am not ready to give up on him either. I just think a lot of the backlash has to do with being drafted #2 overall and the expectations that go with that. I thought Weeks was not to bad defensivley. I think that he just made some realy memorable mistakes and most of the judgement on his defense is based off of that.

[Wesrob1]

I agree that he shouldn't be leading off anymore. I still think he's a #3 hitter even if the numbers don't show it. Rickie most likely won't get a chance to become one here, though.

 

I think the reason I still believe in him is because everytime he goes to bat he seems focused, swings at strikes, provides power, speed and smart base running. In the field, he still needs some improvement but I can see him progressing, still. I can see his offensive game blossoming into somewhere between Brandon Phillips/Curtis Granderson. Neither are protypical leadoff type players.

[BrewCrewForever]

I am willing to give him one more year. But he should not bat leadoff, he needs to be in the 5-7 spot somewhere.

[statman0007]

After that missed double-play ball in the Cubs game late in the year I told myself that I would never defend Weeks again. Cooler heads have prevailed, and I'm jumping on this bandwagon. Mr. Weeks was second on the team in OBP after the All-Star break (Prince's ridiculous 2nd half beat Rickie out) with an OBP of .378

 

I agree that Weeks seems "in the mold" of a Brandon Phillips and still has the potential to become an above average player. If we traded him now, we'd get very little. The risk/reward just screams keep him. People are very down on Rickie because his faults (errors and strikeouts) are very visible while other infielder's faults, such as Counsell, is getting out 77.4% of the time, albeit without striking out.

 

Lastly, the financial obligation for Weeks isn't that great. Sure, he makes more than someone his age normally would, but his salary this year was still just a little over $1 million. You can't tell me that Weeks at $1 million was more of a problem than Gagne at $10 million. As long as he's still on that rookie contract, he's going to be cheap compared to the alternatives.

[brewjihad]

In a year where money is going to be a major issue, I think it would be kinda foolish to "give up" on Weeks. He'll probably get around $2-3 million in arbitration next spring, and when we're looking at tying up a lot of cash in a free agent pitcher or a position player acquired in a trade, that's a bargain. At worst, Rickie contributes slightly above average offense for a second basemen, with obviously below average defense but not by as much as some people think. His 162 game averages are .245/.352/.406 and 19 home runs. You can do a lot worse.

 

And that doesn't even touch the possibility that he could really have that breakout year. As the OPS lines cited above prove, he once again put up a .944 OPS in September after that incredible binge at the end of last year. He could reasonably hit .260/.380/.450 with 20+ homers.

 

I think it would be irresponsible to dump Weeks for little return and spend $10 million on a replacement second basemen like Orlando Hudson when Rickie's a perfectly fine option and that money could be used much better somewhere else.

[MillerParkSouth]

I just have a hard time believing. He had a huge September last year and then this year it was more of the same. I really hope we're able to get a better option at lead off so we can see what he can do if he's given the full season batting down in the order.

[TooLiveBrew]

People are very down on Rickie because his faults (errors and strikeouts) are very visible

 

And interestingly enough, his strikeout rate was down from 2007's. I really think the signs continue to point to Weeks breaking out, though I'm not sure what his lowered BB rate means in that context -- it can't be good. Wouldn't a lowered K rate paired with no improvement in AVG indicate a lot of outs on balls in play? Rickie certainly seemed to lead the team in 'screamers hit right at fielders'. His BABIP was .277, which is certainly below average/normal... and below 2007's .287 & his career .299

 

 

He could reasonably hit .260/.380/.450 with 20+ homers.

 

This is about what I'd expected heading into 2008 from Rickie. For whatever reason, he just doesn't mesh with being a leadoff hitter. I'd love to see him as a #5 hitter next season behind Prince & ahead of Corey.

[dadofandrew]

Weeks is still right about average, and still may put it all together for an extended stretch. Many of the replacements mentioned are barely better, and have no ceiling.

 

I like Rickie better than almost any available 2B...my exceptions may be Hardy or Kelly Johnson.

[PlayerHader]

I'm definitely behind Weeks yet. He's cheap, relatively young, and has a good tool set. Gotta hold on to him for at least another year.

[TheCrew07]

It's not as if Weeks just booted 1 double play, I can think of 5 misplays around the bases just off the top of my head which leads me believe there was more like 8-9, and most of those don't show up in error totals. There is no way he's playing average defense when he's so spotty making the turn. I know defensive metrics are a work in progress, but in this case I'm going to trust what I see watching the games rather than what a metric tells me. I'm not sure how anyone can adequately rate defense without seeing the play, there's way too much going on to look at ball location on a chart to determine if the play should have been made. He's made improvement to be sure, but "Average" is a stretch in my opinion.

 

There's reason to be optimistic about Weeks, he always flashes just enough brilliance to keep others and myself hoping that next year will be the year. I'm on the fence about him, he's made improvement in his game, just not offensively. His last 4 season by OPS+...

 

2008 93

2007 108

2006 96

2005 90

 

So I'd agree that his offense is around average, but the only number in his line that's trending positively is a reduction in SOs. I don't see anything that suggests to me he's ready to breakout other than an outstanding last month of the season. With Hardy we could see his entire approach at the plate mature through his first year, we could see the light go on. I haven't seen anything like that yet from Rickie, I see reason for hope, but I wonder if Rickie will ever be more than a tease.

 

I'm interested in people's opinion of him, coming into the season many people said this was Weeks make or break season, now some of those same people think he should get one more year, when he's essentially the same player he's always been. I'll watch with this unfold with morbid curiosity, as I've been looking to replace him with Green for a long time, so I'm somewhat detached from Rickie's success or failure. Whatever happens he's not a bust, he made it to the show, and he's been serviceable, which more than many 1st round picks from that draft can say. I'll always wonder if rushing him had a negative impact on his career, or at least the early part of his career.

[Diskono]

At age 25, Chase Utley was a less-accomplished hitter than Rickie Weeks is now (Weeks was 25 this season), and then broke out at age 26. He's not really hurting us being in the lineup, so why give up on a huge talent like that?

[thebruce44]

Remember that his amazing second half came when Durham was on the team. Now, was that because he was "trying" harder or because he didn't have to face as many tough righties. I think the optimal solution here is to weak platoon him with a lefty defensive specialist who can play against tough righties and come in late when we have the lead as a defensive replacement. Is there a player available like that?

[Beast Light]

At age 25, Chase Utley was a less-accomplished hitter than Rickie Weeks is now (Weeks was 25 this season), and then broke out at age 26. He's not really hurting us being in the lineup, so why give up on a huge talent like that?

Terrific point. Whenever I judge or attempt to project Rickie Weeks, Chase Utley always comes to mind. No doubt about it, Rickie has struggled but at age 25, he can still turn things around. He already gets on base at a solid clip and that is with a .230 BA. He just has too much potential and is too young to give up on him at this point. Just think where is OBP would be if he could get his BA up to the .280 mark.

 

I say give him another year but if he doesn't start making adjustments and showing improvement, than maybe you deem him to be expendable. Like others have touched on, I am very curious to see what type of season he can put together when he is not slotted in the leadoff spot.

[Oldcity]

If I'm not driving the Rickie Weeks bandwagon, I'm sitting way up in the front. I'll easily give him another year.

[Godspeed]

If we're going to judge Weeks compared to his peers defensively, we should be doing so offensively. OPS+ compares OPS to the league as a whole, while the following sOPS+ numbers are relative to the 2B position:

 [b]Year sOPS+ [/b] 2005 94 2006 103 2007 112 2008 99 

Considering his age, the fact that the 2008 sOPS+ is almost exactly league average in what has universally been considered to be a down year is a huge plus tells us a little bit about the expectation level. I still think the '08 numbers are aberrational, and that a change of coaching scenery can benefit both Rickie Weeks and the Brewers, instead of shipping him out. Expecting a highly regarded player not yet in his prime to start a downward trend is rather pessimistic. I believe he'll rebound.

And I understand the reservations about his defense, but he has been constantly improving and his range is definitely a plus. Hopefully that trend will continue.

One other thing... not that I'm seeing any of this around here, but the stigma of using the strike out as the sole barometer of a player's batting success is rather tired. The number one goal is to get on base, something that Weeks excels at. I just don't understand how certain fans can choose to moan about how this team lacks players who get on base while simultaneously clamoring for Rickie's dismissal.

I guess I'm still on board.

[jackalope02ca]

Fell off a while back. Sorry to wreck the flow. I don't see him progressing and see him regressing further. He was a big mistake and it's time to move on as I don't expect to get more than a A ball guy for him next winter. Sometimes you just have to admit you screwed up and move on. This is one of them.

[Patrick425]

I've always been a Weeks fan. I know not everyone thinks this is important because it fall into that dreaded "right way to play baseball" phrase, but I don't think I have ever seen him not hustle down the line on an infield grounder.

[PlayerHader]

Fell off a while back. Sorry to wreck the flow. I don't see him progressing and see him regressing further. He was a big mistake and it's time to move on as I don't expect to get more than a A ball guy for him next winter. Sometimes you just have to admit you screwed up and move on. This is one of them.

You want to explain this further? How was he a big mistake? Was drafting him a mistake? Pushing him through the minors? Batting him leadoff? Keeping him this long? What leads you to believe that a 25 year old player will regress?

 

I just wanted you to clarify, since there seems to be no reason in my mind that he can't at least be an average second baseman for the next several years.

[Ennder]

I think people really get hung up on the #2 pick thing. It was a weak drafting class and Markakis is pretty much the only player drafted in the top 15 that is clearly an upgrade over Weeks. He is a cheap league average 2B right now with some upside, dont' really see a reason to give up on him.

[Fatter than Joey]

At age 25, Chase Utley was a less-accomplished hitter than Rickie Weeks is now (Weeks was 25 this season), and then broke out at age 26.

 

Utley had only ~500 ABs or so before he "broke out", Weeks has ~1675 -- I think this is an apples and oranges comparison.

 

The number one goal is to get on base, something that Weeks excels at.

 

Weeks does not "excel" at OBP, he was not in the top 40 of the NL, and was in the bottom half of NL 2bs -- I certainly agree that his striking out all the time gets overemphasized, but on the other hand his BB rate has decreased and that makes me very nervous.

 

I think people really get hung up on the #2 pick thing... He is a cheap league average 2B right now with some upside, dont' really see a reason to give up on him.

 

I disagree with the #2 thing -- I think once the Brewers ran Spivey out of town and put Weeks in the lineup -- that's when expectations went through the roof. I agree with the 2nd part of the statement though, he is below average overall with upside, and is cheap -- and the Brewers probably don't have an internal better option.

 

I certainly would hope DM would look for upgrade options if they became available, but we probably have bigger problems to address.

[JJHardy7]

I don't want to get rid of Weeks this off-season because that creates a hole where we don't have anyone in the minors ready. We'd have to trade or sign a 2B and I am 100% against putting Escobar or Hardy at 2B so to me that's not even possible.

 

Rickie has frustrated me for a long, long time. He seems to strike out or ground out at some of the worst times and other times he's patient takes pitches and looks like he has a clue at the plate. I also think Rickie is one of those players that people will say, 'well he was great from this time to this time or after this time and on Wednesday nights'. I don't mean for that to come off as harsh, but Rickie just has to be more consistent.

 

I think the major problem I have with having Rickie on the team is that we don't have a lead off hitter and by default Rickie might have to fill that role -- and personally I think he'd be much better off hitting somewhere else in the lineup. I think this could be a major reason why Cam's option is not picked up and we find a lead off guy who plays CF. I'm not saying that should happen, but if we don't make a major trade our lead off hitter would have to come from 3B -- that doesn't seem likely.