1st base options

[JohnBriggs12]

Nope. Young would also be a massive downgrade from Prince.

 

In the scenario of this entire thread, Prince has been traded. It's assumed that anyone replacing him is a downgrade, though I'm not so sure massive applies to Young. Young is a darn good hitter. Of course the caveat is if healthy and he'd have to prove it before anyone would deal for him.

[Ennder]

Fielder will be the starting first basemen in 2009, doesn't make sense to trade him after what is most likely a down year. I think we trade him in 2010 or 2011 and Gamel becomes our 1B because he won't stick at 3B.

[PilprinBuddha]

To me the future of Price is very much tied to CC. Maybe I am way off base, but if CC signs, Prince stays...at least for another year or two. If CC doesn't resign, I think Prince gets dealt for a SP... if possible. You do not want to sell low on him.

 

If CC walks, I could see JJ and / or Prince dealt for SP.

 

I'd like to see Hardy at 3rd for a long time and Escobar at ss.

 

Who are likely candidates for SP trade targets besides Cain (I don't see Cain as an option unless CC signs there)? Greinke? Halladay? Others?

 

We also have Hall and Suppan who need to be moved and possibly Weeks as well. We will need to give up more and or take back less to move them. I may be willing to do that with Hall and Suppan, but I am not sure about Weeks.

[nate82]

Fielder will be the starting first basemen in 2009, doesn't make sense to trade him after what is most likely a down year. I think we trade him in 2010 or 2011 and Gamel becomes our 1B because he won't stick at 3B.

I agree that Fielder will be here in 2009 as the starting first basemen. But what about a trade where the Brewers send Hart to the Red Sox for Youkilis. I believe the Brewers would have to give up a little bit more to get Youkilis maybe not though with Drew getting older an OF of Bay, Ellsbury, Hart would be intriguing for the Red Sox.

 

Then trading Prince and CV to the Mariners for King Felix. I don't think the Mariners would be interested in this trade though.

 

Rotation for 2009

1. Hernandez

2. Gallardo

3. Parra

4. Bush

5. Suppan

 

2009 Lineup

1. Weeks CF

2. Gamel RF

3. Braun LF

4. Youkilis 1B

5. Hardy 2B

6. Hall/Branyan/Lamb 3B

7. Kendall C

8. Escobar SS

 

Not a great offense especially with 2 rookies in the lineup. I'm not sure if the Brewers would win more than 82 games next year with the lineup but the rotation would be as competitive as the one we had for the second half of this year. We would still have a weak link at 3B though at least until 2011 when either Lawrie or Green will be about ready to take over at 3B. I believe Lawrie will be moved from catcher to 3B.

 

What I don't like is that we are getting rid of Hart and having a rookie who hasn't played any OF and Weeks a below average to average 2B into a center fielder. Also adding in Escobar as great as his defense maybe I'm not 100% confident his offense will be adequate enough. Another option would be moving Hardy to 3B which I believe would be the better idea than having Hardy move to 2B. Even with Weeks defense the defense doesn't suffer as much with Weeks at 2B than it would at CF. An error at 2B is not as harmfull as a bad played ball in CF or an error in CF. An error at 2B at worst extends an inning or puts the runner at 2B instead of at 1B. An error in CF does a lot more damage to a team than one at 2B. It is pick your poison here I would rather have Weeks at 2B than in CF.

[mothershipconnection]

Youkilis had a .959 OPS this year, it would take a lot more than Hart to land him after the two moved in opposite directions this year. If we want to trade Hart, it's likely smartest to wait/hope for him to rebound next year.

[yoshii8]

Yes, I think you are very much underestimating Youkillis, the Red Sox will not be looking to trade him.

[dadofandrew]

They're going to downgrade RF by subbing Hart for Drew, and then trade Youkilis?

 

They are run by Theo Epstein...that's not going to happen.

[Never Outhustled]

I like Nick J, but you need to have another 1B on hand to play 40-60 games that Johnson is hurt. No one even considers Prince's durability, but if he's 40 runs over replacement level, he's +40...while I'd say Johnson is 20-25, so if he plays 100 and Nelson/Dillon play 60, that's what +12?

And how many runs did you equate we'd save from the defensive improvement of having a 1B that can actually play 1B? Improving the defense helps make up for some of the lost offense, and how do we know Fielder won't get even fatter and regress even more next season?

Just because Fielder has been durable doesn't mean that will continue. Not a whole lot of massively overweight ironmen in baseball. The second injury problems start for Fielder his trade value will plummet.

Johnson would be a good replacement, he's an even better OBA guy than Prince. he is injury prone, but we could have Gamel playing 1B in AAA, ready to be called up.

[dadofandrew]

28 runs is a lot to make up elsewhere, even if you give someone 5-10 for defense, which seems unlikely anyway, even if Doug M would take over.

 

Thus far, I haven't seen a single trade that would result in a positive runs for/against projection...they seem to be all be afraid of injury, regression, or both. Considering Fielder is still young and relatively cheap, and able to go year-to-year for 3 more seasons, making the team weaker seems like a strange option. Personally, you got a 24 year-old power hitter that's done things no one has ever done...I'm sure in no hurry to move him, especially for anything except top young players/prospects.

[TheCrew07]

Al your expectations are unrealistic for this idea, if Fielder is moved, he'd be moved for pitching, so there isn't going to be run production coming back, it would be run limitation in a better starting pitcher and improved infield defense. The Brewers don't have another power hitter to replace Fielder with, but they could sign one if that's the route they take. They don't even have to make up for the loss of production in 2009 to be better off, the Brewers will however be a significantly more talented team in 2010. As the second wave hits and begins producing the team could easily make back the "28 runs" as you put it, and have a very good rotation to go with the offense. The alternative is standing still with the position players and signing an overpaid FA pitcher to plug the gap in the rotation which is horrible value for the dollar. Fielder will never be more valuable than he today, he'll have less value after 2009 because he'll only be around for 2 years, and after 2010 the return would be prospects as he'd basically be a 1 year rental for the team that acquired him. The only way he stays with the team long term is if he's traded to one of the AL teams that has a hole and can afford is contract. That idea really limits the possibilities in regards to players coming back.

 

If you're against trading Fielder that's fine, but you keep arguing points that are irrelevant in the context of the discussion, and have a pretty narrow view of the trade, it's not about 09, it's about 10, 11, 12... Teams that build from the offense on down aren't very successful... look at Texas and Detroit... The most pressing issue isn't 3B, 2B, CF, or RF, it's the ROTATION, the other positions can be addressed in house in time. If the Brewers can put a very capable pitching staff together they can compete regardless what happens with the position players in 09, and will be very competitive in 2010. I still say the Brewers should target Shields with Fielder, David Price made the post season roster and is pitching very well, and if they upgrade their offense the Rays will be even better next year as their pitching staff wouldn't suffer any drop off after losing Shields.

[dadofandrew]

Runs prevented count just as much as runs scored.

 

And rarely do 90 win teams start looking 2 years down the line. I don't see it with the Brewers either.

[TCSM]

Under the ESPN insider rumor they have "Brewers hearing offers for Fielder." Can anyone give an overview of what that says?

[sheetskout]

I still am on the "Please make every attempt to sign Prince Fielder Long Term" bandwagon. I also have my seatbelt on....

[trwi7]

New blog up by Haudricourt.

Says the Brewers will listen to offers for Fielder for and said they would for "some time." They would move him for a "substantial package." The reasons he gives are.

1. Big pay raise in arbitration. Scott Boras as his agent. Already turned down a 5 year $60 million offer from the Brewers.

2. Regression in the field worrying club officials.

3. His noticeable weight gain from 2007. Another concern for club officials.

There's a link to a New York Post story in the blog. I'm guessing that's what the ESPN insider story is about.

[DHonks]

I'd be content with Nelson at 1b as part of a platoon. I'd love to find a RH hitting 1b/OF for the role. I hate to bring up old names, but looking at the success of guys like Tony Clark in a limited role makes me think that perhaps we could bring in Sexson for 200-250 at bats. Figuring a Sexson/Nelson platoon would make about $1 million, it'd produce likely a .250-.260 avg, 20-25 hr, and significantly better defense. Or even my longtime favorite, Mark Loretta. Loretta logging 100 at bats at 1st base and another 300 at the other spots would make sense.

[endaround]

Sexson is a complete butcher in the field now.

[MBHA]

For what it's worth on the sports segment of the WTMJ morning news today they mentioned that Tom H. is getting indications that Ken Macha is the managerial favorite and that the Brewers have made in known that Prince Fielder could be available, but that the return package must be substantial.

[JohnBriggs12]

Sexson is a complete butcher in the field now.

Hard to find stats that back that statement up endaround. Sexson committed 2 errors in 2008, 2 in 2007, and 4 in 2006. That's less than half as many as Fielder made just in 2008 alone.

 

I'll grant you he doesn't cover any ground out there, but "butcher" implies that he can't catch a ball cleanly either. Also he's still 6'8" and that gives him vertical range that Fielder (who's really only 5-10 or 5-11) or too many others can't match.

 

I'm not saying I advocate picking him up, but if you were going to replace Fielder with a platoon, you could do a lot worse than a guy who hit lefties at a .325/.414/.578 rate. He still is an imposing figure up there.

[endaround]

USS Mariner pretty much compliained constantly about Sexson not being able to handle the field. Sexson in 2007 had a RZR of .655, Fielder was at .668 in 2007, .684 in 2008.