Who Needs To Be Protected From Rule 5 (40-Man Roster); Latest -- Scarpetta, Rogers, Aguilar, Periard added to 40-man

[And That]

If they don't put him on the 40-man roster, they wouldn't be "giving up" on him, they'd merely be taking a calculated risk that he wouldn't be taken by another team. With his injury status, I'd be shocked if he were drafted in the Rule 5 unless his shoulder heals quite a bit in the coming month. I'd put money on the Brewers not putting him on the 40-man. That's not a shot to Mark, it is just being realistic about his current state of health.

[JJHardy7]

I'd put money on the Brewers not putting him on the 40-man. That's not a shot to Mark, it is just being realistic about his current state of health.

 

I agree. Even if he was 100% healthy it's hard to 'stash' a pitcher on a roster that hasn't pitched all that much lately and hasn't reached higher levels in the minors yet. Going from A ball to the majors with the injury history makes for one heck of a risky selection.

[RyDogg66]

I'd guess if we dont put him on the 40 man that he would be gone. A team that has an outlook of 60-65 wins next year has nothing to lose by stashing him in the bullpen and giving him garbage time innings. They'd be able to keep his work load down, give him tons of rest and get to see him against major league quality players. If it doesnt work out, then boo-hoo it costs them $25k. Unless he cant bring heat any more (which is possible I suppose) then the upside for a top 5 pick is way to high to pass up.

[And That]

The list of pitchers who have not pitched a professional game in two years that were selected in the major league phase of the Rule 5 draft is a very short, if nonexistent, list. Mark Rogers will in all likelihood not add to (or start) that list.

[yoshii8]

If they don't put him on the 40-man roster, they wouldn't be "giving up" on him, they'd merely be taking a calculated risk that he wouldn't be taken by another team. With his injury status, I'd be shocked if he were drafted in the Rule 5 unless his shoulder heals quite a bit in the coming month. I'd put money on the Brewers not putting him on the 40-man. That's not a shot to Mark, it is just being realistic about his current state of health.

I know how it works, I was merely saying that that in my opinion the Brewers should put him on the 40 man roster, and not risk losing him in the Rule 5 draft, which if taken, would be potentially giving up on him.

 

I could understand not protecting him if they think there is no way he can come back, but if there is any chance of him regaining his velocity I would like to see him protected.

[And That]

But there is almost no way he will be taken - why use an option in the the spring when you don't have to? Given how much time it could take him to fully recover from his injury and get back on track to the majors and then stick in the majors, the Brewers might need all of his options without putting Mark on the 40-man this year.

[RyDogg66]

The better question is, would anyone be upset if he was selected and not given back? Say he gets selected by a team like the Mariners, pitchers out of the bullpen for all of April and May, gets "hurt" and goes on the DL until september and then pitches all of SEptember for them with rosters expand. That at least seems plausible. If that happens, would anyone be upset? If the answer is no, then he should not be protected. and I agree with Toby that even if the answer is yes that we should probably not protect him, but why deal with that question if nobody cares if he goes.

[And That]

I would certainly care if someone took him, but I would be just as befuddled. I just don't see a scenario where he would be selected - will he be healthy to pitch out of a bullpen in April and May and even if he is healthy, since he hasn't pitched in a game situation in two years, do you want him skipping from half a season of advanced A ball in '06 to a big league pen in '09? That would likely be a tremendous liability. Maybe an AL team could essentially go with a 24 man roster, but that is sacrificing a lot for guy with a big injury history.

 

That said, if Melvin and company think there is more than a remote chance he'll be selected, they'll protect him. He still may yet be a valuable asset in the future.

[TheCrew07]

I don't see an A ball pitcher with an injury history being selected in the rule 5 draft, nor would I plan my strategy around the worse case scenario in this instance... better to leave him off the 40 man and save the options for when they will matter.

[twobrewers]

I've enjoyed following Mark as he has battled back from his injuries. He always seemed like a real bright kid.

 

That said, there really isn't any reason to protect him.

 

At this point, the chance of him ever contributing to a MLB team might be 10%. The chance of him contributing to an MLB team THIS year? Maybe 2%.

[1992casey]

From the Paul Betit article (reply #24ish): If another major league baseball team does claim Rogers in the December draft, it must assign him to their 40-man roster and he must spend the first 90 days of the next baseball season with the major league team.

 

Note: Unless there's been a change in the CBA, that fact seems incorrect. -- Jim

The Wikipedia information cited by AJhawk50 (reply #23ish) states the rule the way I understand it. The player must be on the 25 man roster or disabled list for a full season, but must be active for at least 90 days. If he doesn't reach 90 days of active duty, during the following season, he must be on the active roster for whatever number of days he's short.

 

It seems that Betit's information is more of an error of omission rather than being fully incorrect.

[yoshii8]

According to jsonline, the Brewers added Rogers, Periard, Aguilar and Cody Scarpetta to the 40 man roster.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/34763409.html

[Never Outhustled]

I'm happy they added Rogers. If he regains his fastball, he still has big upside. He's exactly the type of player rebuilding teams stash on there roster for a year and then return to the minors, much like the Brewers did with Enrique Cruz. Many of the players picked in the rule 5 draft are hard throwing A-ballers. Marcos Carvajol and Jorge Sosa are 2 off the top of my head.

 

Sure, his options run out a year sooner, but if Mark isn't ready to stick in a big league bullpen by age 26, I'll be ready to cut bait.

[And That]

Many of the players picked in the rule 5 draft are hard throwing A-ballers.

Yes, however most all of them have pitched within the past few and a half years. Again, I'd like to see the list of pitchers taken (and kept through the beginning of the season) in the Rule 5 draft who had not advanced past A+ and had not pitched in 2+ years.

 

I'm surprised they put Rogers on the 40-man, but I guess they thought there was a risk to him being taken. Maybe his velocity has picked up. I'll take it as good news.

 

Scarpetta was another surprise selection, I did not know having your original contract voided meant you were Rule 5 eligible afterward.

 

No Cain?

[CheezWizHed]

Hopefully that means we were wrong about Cain needing to be added?

 

If he is available for the Rule 5 draft, the Brewers must not be very high on him. Ouch.

[Mass Haas]

Scarpetta, 20, was an 11th round pick in 2007 and normally wouldn't have to be protected. But, after signing, his contract was voided because of a pre-existing finger injury. By signing Scarpetta to a different contract, he became eligible for the Rule 5 draft and the Brewers didn't want to lose him.

It certainly doesn't help the Brewers that Scarpetta will have no options remaining as of spring 2012.

I can understand why he was eligible, but if the Brewers knew this was going to be necessary, don't showcase him in Hawaii. Who could have possibly carried him all year on their 25-man? Sign him to another one-year minor league deal for a bit more cash and save the 40-man spot and the option. Bizarre.

[Mass Haas]

Young outfielders are among the toughest to carry for a full season, was Jay Gibbons the last success story in Rule 5 outfield lore? Brian Barton with St. Louis last year, I guess, off the top of my head.

 

Perhaps that's why the focus on pitching, with Cain not added.

[And That]

Scarpetta will have four option years. This was the case with another Brewer pitcher recently... Sarfate maybe?

 

Quoth Wikipedia:

However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers.

 

He'll be able to be optioned through the 2012 season and a 25-man roster decision won't be forced until spring 2013.

[yoshii8]

Josh Hamilton was also a pretty good story.

[Never Outhustled]

Yes, however most all of them have pitched within the past few and a half years. Again, I'd like to see the list of pitchers taken (and kept through the beginning of the season) in the Rule 5 draft who had not advanced past A+ and had not pitched in 2+ years.

While he's not a pitcher, Josh Hamilton hadn't played in years, never played above A ball, and wasn't overly productive when he did play. He was selected because of his awesome physical talent, despite a host of off the field issues. Rogers 100 MPH fastball and massive K totals suggest his raw talent is immense.

 

I'm not sure why its a major issue that Rogers hasn't played in years. If he's selected, it would be for his longterm potential, not because a team was looking for an impact player in 2009. Except for the occasional minor league veteran sidearm reliever, I think thats what most rule 5 picks are.

[pogokat]

already mentioned in the ddsm thread, but Cain's agent Josh says Cain didn't need to be added due to rules change last year

[And That]

While he's not a pitcher, Josh Hamilton hadn't played in years

I think it makes a huge difference that he wasn't a pitcher, and that he didn't miss time due to a debilitating injury.

 

Rogers 100 MPH fastball and massive K totals suggest his raw talent is immense. I'm not sure why its a major issue that Rogers hasn't played in years.

Rogers hasn't had a 100 MPH fastball in years, to the best of our knowledge. Rogers had a significant pitching arm injury - significant enough to knock him out of professional competition for over two years. Given that a pitcher's biggest asset by is his arm, that he missed two years is a very big deal. Even assuming he's back to 100%, which I think is very far from likely, I find it difficult to believe he'd be competitive against big league hitters. I mean, he was having control problems in '06 against A-ball hitters.

 

I take it that his inclusion on the 40-man roster means his health must be progressing somewhat. And I realize that he would be a long term project for a team if he were a Rule 5 choice, but if you're on the 25-man roster, you have to be marginally competitive. Again, if there is precedent for a guy being selected in the Rule 5 after not pitching for two years and sticking with the team throughout the season, I'd like to see it.

[Minigoon]

With the 4 adds today, the Brewers still have 6 spots open going into the winter meetings.

[yoyo49]

could somebody please explain why mark rogers had to be protected and lorenzo cain did not? both were 18 years old when drafted in 2004.

[Mass Haas]

Although part of the 2004 draft class with Rogers, Cain was a draft-and-follow, and signed a contract prior to the 2005 season.