The CC Watch... Latest: Who knows?

[fondybrewfan]

The public doesnt get to see this in Attanasio, but I have heard that working inside of the Milwaukee Brewers is not a fun job to have anymore. Its all about raising money, making money, running a business, not really about baseball much anymore. He may want his consumer to think they want to and can sign Sabathia, like any ambitious CEO might about his product, but in the end, he will realize it is too risky and too expensive to take that gamble on. Its a marketing ploy at best.

I would be interested how you came to this conclusion because frankly I don't believe it. There are people that post here who are affliated with the organization and I haven't seeing any posts saying the environment inside the Brewers organization has worsened. Besides making money and raising money is needed to continue putting a qaulity team out on the field. That is distinctly baseball related. I highly doubt that before Mark got here that business was 2nd and the baseball 1st. The team was crappy for so long they had to concentrate and not losing money because if they did it would be even harder to sell the team. If anything the late Selig days were absolutely business 1st and baseball 2nd.

[brewerguy71]

I would be interested how you came to this conclusion

Two people who have pretty high places in the organization, who are business contacts and friends. The atmosphere is not what it once was. Of course, winning can mask certain workplace stresses. But from what I have heard from these people it is not a very fun place to work any longer.

[Pedro]

The public doesnt get to see this in Attanasio, but I have heard that working inside of the Milwaukee Brewers is not a fun job to have anymore. Its all about raising money, making money, running a business, not really about baseball much anymore. He may want his consumer to think they want to and can sign Sabathia, like any ambitious CEO might about his product, but in the end, he will realize it is too risky and too expensive to take that gamble on. Its a marketing ploy at best.

I've dealt with the Brewer organization on a business level for about 15 years. I would definitely agree that the atmosphere of the organization has changed. From my perspective, they are much more hardcore about focusing on large sponsorships, generating dollars and generally running it more like a emotionless, cold business. The people they have brought in and the people they have let go reflect this mentality. I much more enjoyed dealing with the previous regime from that standpoint. I have noticed an air of superiority and fear that was not present previously. Without getting into details, I will say I don't particularly care to work with them from a business standpoint any longer.

 

However, from just a fan's perspective, this new "all business" attitude doesn't bother me, as they are generating more revenue which they are then reinvesting in player salaries. Yes, they have a close eye on the bottom line, but they also realize that nothing contributes to that bottom line more than winning. These large sponsorship deals and other marketing initiatives only have legs as long as the the team is winning and drawing fans.

 

As far as resigning CC is concerned, I think it's unlikely, but I don't think Attanasio is blowing smoke either. I don't have any great insight into the situation, but I would guess the confluence of current finances, future revenue and professional ego make it at least possible.

[GormanHarvey]

I also disagree with the notion that the working environment of the Milwaukee Brewers has gone down hill. I find that very hard to believe and that is not what I have heard

[rluzinski]

Pretend for a moment that instead of the Brewers trading for CC during the season, it had been the Cardinals. Pretend that he pushed the Cardinals into the playoffs. What do you think would be the odds of the Brewers signing him to a long term deal in that scenario?

 

That is most likely very close to the odds that the Brewers have now.

 

Sure, if the Brewers match the years but fall a couple mil short on the total, he might still choose the Brewers. Perhaps they'll win on a virtual tie. That's about the extent of a home town discountBrewer fans could reasonably hope for.

 

50:1?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Maybe if the Dodgers sign C.C. they'd give us Billingsley in a trade. I'd be jumping for joy if that happned. Billingsley is an ace in the making.

[dlk9s]

Out of curiousity, what happens to KRod as he is a FA. Do we make a play on him?

Oh god, I hope not. It would cost way too much money for a guy who really isn't that great.

[Baldkin]

I'm no odds expert, but these are odds, as in a horse race, not a % chance.

 

I'd say 100:1 is being generous for the Brewers.

[sbrylski]

I'm no odds expert, but these are odds, as in a horse race, not a % chance.

 

4:1 = 20%

5:2 = 2/7ths

ect.

[tyguy20204]

I'm no odds expert, but these are odds, as in a horse race, not a % chance.

 

4:1 = 20%

5:2 = 2/7ths

ect.

Right, but the odds are independent of each other, and so they don't have to add up to 100%.

[holybannana]

I would be interested how you came to this conclusion

Two people who have pretty high places in the organization, who are business contacts and friends. The atmosphere is not what it once was. Of course, winning can mask certain workplace stresses. But from what I have heard from these people it is not a very fun place to work any longer.

If its being run more professionally and is higher stakes, that's a good thing.

 

If the organization is taking on bigger sponsors and interested in raising more money, that's a good thing. they've shown a willingness to invest that money in players and that' a good thing.

 

Maybe there is a more corporate, serious, business like attitude than before but that's a good thing. Because it might not as be as fun to work there anymore doesn't mean they aren't more fun to watch.

 

There isn't an organization more professional, business like and interested in big money sponsors than the Yankees. I'd say they have a good model to follow in terms of how to run a baseball club.

[RockCoCougars]

Personally, I couldn't care less if the Brewers organization is a fun place to work. The "mom and pop" type operation run by the Seligs just wasn't getting the job done on the field. Obviously Attanasio sees the link between winning and making money (you have to spend money to make money), I'm not sure the Seligs ever grasped that concept. With winning comes bandwagon fans, with bandwagon fans, comes higher attendance/higher tv ratings, higher attendance/tv ratings brings more revenue, etc., etc., etc.

 

Honestly, I have no problem giving Sabathia $25 million (assuming the bidding doesn't get too crazy). If you let Sabathia and Sheets go, you are going to have to sign somebody to replace them with. Do you go after a guy like Burnett (who's half the pitcher and ten times the injury risk)? Burnett's probably going to get something approaching $15 million a year, if not more. For god's sake Lohse just got over $10 million a year. Look where signing a middle of the road guy got the Brewers with Suppan....If you are going to have to overpay for hamburger, you might as well just buy a steak.

[crewcrazy]

Out of curiousity, what happens to KRod as he is a FA. Do we make a play on him?

Oh god, I hope not. It would cost way too much money for a guy who really isn't that great.

I agree on K-Rod. Let the Mets make him the highest-paid reliever ever with Wagner out for next year with Tommy John surgery, then wonder why he doesn't come close to this year's save total ever again.

 

On the topic of Sabathia, it'd be one of the happiest days of my life if they actually did re-sign him without somehow crippling the franchise's finances. It's likely not going to happen, though, especially when you get big spenders like the Yankees and Dodgers involved. I fully expect Hank Steinbrenner to go nuts in free agency this winter after the Yankees missed the playoffs. I think what the Dodgers do depend on if they feel like keeping Manny Ramirez or not, because that's going to tie up a ton of money, too.

[AJhawk50]

crewcrazy wrote:

---

I agree on K-Rod. Let the Mets make him the highest-paid reliever ever with Wagner out for next year with Tommy John surgery, then wonder why he doesn't come close to this year's save total ever again.

 

On the topic of Sabathia, it'd be one of the happiest days of my life if they actually did re-sign him without somehow crippling the franchise's finances. It's likely not going to happen, though, especially when you get big spenders like the Yankees and Dodgers involved.

I agree. I also read that the Angel's aren't going to pay the 5 years $75 million that K-Rod wants. Jon Garland is also likely gone and if the Yankee's go after Mark Teixeira then suddenly the Angel's have the means to go after CC. Granted they can't offer CC AB's though but money talks.

[dlk9s]

I still say, as much as I like Prince, trade him for pitching/other need, then sign CC and have him play first base when he doesn't pitch.

 

I'm a genius.

[Thats Freakin Sweet]

In general, I'd be against signing a CC type free agent in Milwaukee, but in this case, I'm all for it. There are a few reasons that I think we should consider:

 

1) With the departure of Brett Favre the state of Wisconsin is devoid of a "hero." CC could easily be that guy. He has the personality and the elite ability.

 

2) Even if the Brewers pay him $30 mill per, he will not cost them that much. This coincides with No. 1, but the marketing income from CC's presence would offset whatever he's paid, to what extent, that's to be decided by the number-crunchers that Attanasio employs. (Thank God Attanasio is a business man, he understands Opportunity Costs). CC moves the needle in both attendance and ratings.

 

3) Winning is the best business decision that can be made, and there's no doubt that CC with a healthy Yo, and a more experienced Parra along with a strong, young offensive nucleus can win and win a lot. Take CC out of that equation (regardless of whoever is picked up to pitch), and the likeliness of winning as much declines.

 

4) Out of any of the "aces" that could be signed, CC is about as low-risk health-wise as you get. He does not tax his body pitching like a lot of pitchers. He's big, he's strong, and he's young. These factors mitigate the risk in my opinion.

 

Sign him.

[rluzinski]

How can anyone make the blanket statement "sign him" without stating the dollar amount they think he's worth? The question isn't whether the Brewers should or should not sign him. The question is, what should they offer him? And if your answer is, "Whatever it takes", you are on the wrong track.

[Ennder]

The only 'aces' i'd be interested in signing are Webb and Santana. I won't lose any sleep over signing Sabathia but I think the odds of him staying healthy with ace like stats the next 6 years are extremely low. Maybe 1% or so.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I would give CC a 4 yr/80 mil deal with a 5th yr vesting option. Those that say sign him for 30 mil per year are missing the point that a contract like that would cripple any financial flexibility that we would have. I have a tough time even offering 4/80 for a pitcher when pitching injuries are just too common. We would all love to have Sabathia back but I wouldnt do it at the cost of having a bunch of Counsells in the field behind him.

[sveumrules]

I would give CC a 4 yr/80 mil deal with a 5th yr vesting option. Those that say sign him for 30 mil per year are missing the point that a contract like that would cripple any financial flexibility that we would have. I have a tough time even offering 4/80 for a pitcher when pitching injuries are just too common. We would all love to have Sabathia back but I wouldnt do it at the cost of having a bunch of Counsells in the field behind him.

that fifth year option would need to be about 55 million dollars for CC and his agent to even respond to an offer that low ball.

 

santana got 6 and 137.5 so i can't see CC taking anything less than 5 and 125, and even that will surely be a mere starting point to negotiations.

[fallingleaves]

If the Brewers want to remain a playoff caliber team, CC is a must. With CC and Yo, at the top of our order, we will be competative for years to come. I would rather we pay up for quality instead of handing out 10 mil a year to quality b free agents such as suppan and gange.

 

And secondly I would love to see the brewer's sign K-rod. He is one of the top closers in the game.

[brwrsfan]

I can't see anyway we sign K-Rod. The only reason we're even somewhat in the Sabathia sweepstakes is because he played here this year and claims to have really, really enjoyed it. If CC had been traded elsewhere and was a free agent, we'd have virtually no chance to sign him. In my opinion, that's the boat we're in with K-Rod.

[zzzmanwitz]

And secondly I would love to see the brewer's sign K-rod. He is one of the top closers in the game.

 

Please please please please please please please please NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Remember how much Fransisco Cordero got this off season? Do you really want to pay more for a guy like K-Rod? This is really another topic though.

 

I would over pay for 4-5 years to get CC. We will not be able to contend for a WORLD SERIES without 2 Aces. Yovani may be an Ace, CC is one.

[benji]

I know this is a different sport, but I believe it applies. Ron Wolf has been quoted saying that he would never overpay for "good" players, but would pay whatever it takes for the "great" or elite player. I would put Sabathia in the elite category. I know that the financial situations are different, but if you sign him for six years at $130 million and the brewers are playing for a meaningful september (playoff contention) in five of those years is it worth it? I would think so, but I don't know how to really measure his financial value.

[WisconsinSportsRule]

I know this is a different sport, but I believe it applies. Ron Wolf has been quoted saying that he would never overpay for "good" players, but would pay whatever it takes for the "great" or elite player. I would put Sabathia in the elite category. I know that the financial situations are different, but if you sign him for six years at $130 million and the brewers are playing for a meaningful september (playoff contention) in five of those years is it worth it? I would think so, but I don't know how to really measure his financial value.

 

A little off topic here, but that elite player could end up being like Woodson for the Pack. He was/is certainly worth the $55 million we gave to him. CC could be worth it too. I know this team will try everything they can to resign him, and I will let them do what they want to do. I have faith in them.