The CC Watch... Latest: Who knows?

[nate82]

If the opt out clause is true, why wouldn't the Yankees just counter with an opt out clause in their contract?

Because the last time they did that Alex Rodriguez held them for hostage threatening to sign with another team after opting out of his contract. Maybe the Yankees don't want to do something like that again and go through the pain of resigning someone who may not want to be there.

[RyDogg66]

The difference is that the Brewers might want CC to opt out, no matter what, as he is likely to be very, very good fir the first 2-3 years of his contract, and less so the last 2-3 years. Essentially, it would be like the BRewers getting CC for a 3 year, 60 million dollar deal and then some other team paying him probably something close to 25 million while he gets into his late 30s. It is a brilliant move if the Brewers offer it.

[brwrsfan]

TH has a new blog up, Melvin met with the reps and thinks we're still in it. Doesn't sound like CC was actually at the meeting himself, which is a bit disappointing. I can never get an accurate read on Melvin's quotes either, from reading it I get the impression that he's just really hoping he comes back, as opposed to actually believing he might come back.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/35756694.html

 

 

Las Vegas - Brewers general manager Doug Melvin just returned from his meeting with the agents of free agent left-hander CC Sabathia.

 

Amazingly, after five weeks of waiting, the meeting took less than a half-hour. I asked Melvin point-blank if the Brewers are still in the running to sign Sabathia and he didn't hesitate with his succinct answer.

 

"Yes," he said.

 

Melvin and assistant Gord Ash met at The Wynn, a nearby hotel, with lead agent Greg Genske and assistants Brian Peters and Scott Parker. He wouldn't reveal details of the brief meeting but said there was an agreement to talk again later in the week.

 

If that meant that Melvin might boost his offer of five years and $100 million, he wouldn't say. Melvin did laugh at reports that surfaced over the last 24 hours claiming the Brewers were ready to add a sixth year and "opt out" clauses that would allow Sabathia to get out of his contract if so desired.

 

Melvin laughed when told of those reports.

 

"That didn't come from me," said Melvin. "I haven't talked to (team owner) Mark (Attanasio) about that. I don't know where they get that. It's speculation.

 

"I can't comment on what we're going to do or what we're not going to do. When you're negotiating, it's best not to say anything."

 

Despite the brevity of the meeting, Melvin said he did "get a feel" for where he stands with his offer. The only other reported offer is the six-year, $140 million bid by the Yankees, who met with Sabathia and his representatives Sunday night here.

 

Not knowing what other interest there might be, Melvin said he thought the Brewers were still in the running to sign Sabathia, who pitched them to their first playoff berth in 26 years after coming from Cleveland in early July.

 

"Until we're told we're no longer involved, I take it that we have a chance," said Melvin. "Teams can pull out, too. I don't know what else is out there."

 

Though he can't consider any other major moves until Sabathia makes his decision, Melvin said he does not plan to set a deadline for his answer to the Brewers.

 

"We haven't said that we would set a deadline," said Melvin. "I think the reason is there's not a lot of other stuff going on (with other free agents). We don't have any other free-agent deals on the table.

 

"I told them I'd get back to them before we left here."

 

At that point, Melvin probably will tell Sabathia's agents what else he is prepared to do, if anything. But I've been told there is not a lot of wiggle room in their original offer.

[Oldcity]

I also never know what to think when he "laughs something off."

[zzzmanwitz]

That's too bad... if he had said talks didn't go well, Sabathia would have been signed by midnight.

[Bikeage77]

I just read that opt-out thing on Brewers.com. Is that an unprecidented approach to a contract in baseball? I can't recall hearing of anything like that, but maybe players never opted out after 2 or 3 years. Seems like a crazy approach but going after the best free agent pitcher, I suppose you could try anything.

[areacodes]

A-rod opted out of his last contract and then re-signed with the Yankees.

[sbrylski]

I remember someone suggesting a shorter than average opt out clause the other day... Oh, found it:

 

What if the Brewers were to do a contract where CC can opt out after just two seasons. One, we'd be substantially increasing the odds we won't be paying for a goose - he's much more likely to stay healthy over two years, and if he does, he'll probably opt out. And two, our offer becomes a lot more attractive. It could be a good way to disguise a long term contract as a short term contract.

 

Needless to say, if the rumors are true, I'm happy and think it would be a good move.

[dpapo]

Like I wrote earlier, I didn't think Sabathia's agent was going to tell or lead Melvin to believe the Brewers didn't have a chance. The more teams that are viewed as having a chance at signing Sabathia, the more leverage Sabathia and his agents have. I'm almost disappointed as it now seems like the Brewers will have a pretty quiet winter meetings other than some possible minor type moves. It's also disappointing to hear that the Brewers have nothing going on with any other free agents. There are some decent pitchers that are avaible, both starters and relievers.

It seems like right now the Brewers are putting all their eggs in one basket, (Sabathia) which still seems like a long shot. Maybe Melvin feels the only way the Brewers have a chance at making the playoffs is if they sign Sabathia. Otherwise, they do need to get at least one other quality starting pitcher and a closer. It seems like this winter is turning more into a buyers market, with some free agents getting their money, but others are probably going to have to settle for less than what they are looking for which would be a great time for a team like the Brewers to sign a quality free agent or two, but it seems like they don't have much interest. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Edit: More evidence that hints towards Sabathia's agent just using the Brewers as leverage.

 

"In the Bellagio Hotel to meet with Yankees brass on Sunday night, free-agent pitcher CC Sabathia ran into Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti and told him he wants to be a Dodger, Colletti said on Monday.

Colletti didn't reveal any more of the conversation, but he allowed there's "a possibility" that the Dodgers could enter the mix for the native Californian, who hasn't accepted a three-week-old offer from the Yankees of six years and $140 million.

In the Bellagio Hotel to meet with Yankees brass on Sunday night, free-agent pitcher CC Sabathia ran into Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti and told him he wants to be a Dodger, Colletti said on Monday.

Colletti didn't reveal any more of the conversation, but he allowed there's "a possibility" that the Dodgers could enter the mix for the native Californian, who hasn't accepted a three-week-old offer from the Yankees of six years and $140 million."

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/a...otstove2008&fext=.jsp

[sbrylski]

Maybe Melvin feels the only way the Brewers have a chance at making the playoffs is if they sign Sabathia.

 

I think Mark A views Sabathia as our Ichiro, a player worth more than just his performance. "Sabathia" = "winning" to our fanbase, and bringing him back would mean more to the attendance numbers than bringing in any other player, even if other moves might make us a better team. Sabathia may cost $10 million per year more than the club wants to add to its payroll, but if they're projecting $10 million worth increased attendance with the signing then it would be worth it. I think it appears that Mark A is a big fan of continuity.

[burnzy24]

Like I wrote earlier, I didn't think Sabathia's agent was going to tell or lead Melvin to believe the Brewers didn't have a chance. The more teams that are viewed as having a chance at signing Sabathia, the more leverage Sabathia and his agents have.

Melvin has been in the game long enough to know whether or not he has a shot with a player or not and can recognize when an agent is using him for leverage. Plus I don't think that would really matter in this situation since nobody is more than likely going to outbid the Yankees.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Sabathia and his agents are really holding the Brewers hostage by telling Melvin that we are still in it. We are stuck waiting for CC and Melvin cant do anything other than sign scrap heap guys like swindle and Julio in the meantime. So the end resullt will probably be CC goes to the yankees, Sheets leaves the Brewers and Melvin is left standing there with no backup plan to improve the team. I really have a bad feeling that we are gonna end up overpaying a Garland type while Sheets and sabathia leave. If that happens we will have no chance to compete next year as garland is another Suppan.

[burnzy24]

So the end resullt will probably be CC goes to the yankees, Sheets leaves the Brewers and Melvin is left standing there with no backup plan to improve the team. I really have a bad feeling that we are gonna end up overpaying a Garland type while Sheets and sabathia leave. If that happens we will have no chance to compete next year as garland is another Suppan.

If this is your outlook then you really aren't giving Melvin much credit. He already is quoted saying that if CC falls through he would rather trade for one than attempt to sign one as a free agent so our involvenment in free agency is going to be limited, which seems to be the case every year. Also, all the rumors coming out seem to be saying that the Brewers actually have a legitmate shot at getting him. I've at least heard more rumors about him wanting to resign with the Brewers than I have of his desire to play for the Yankees. It just seems like we will have to up our deal a little.

 

I would honesly be more worried if I were the Yankees. Their off season plans are more focused on free agency than the Brewers. Throwing out a record deal to a guy and have him sit on it for weeks is very telling. If Burnett goes elsewhere before CC makes up his mind and CC doesn't sign with them then what do they do? Their rotation needs just as much help as ours this offseason.

[brosto1]

I just read that opt-out thing on Brewers.com. Is that an unprecidented approach to a contract in baseball? I can't recall hearing of anything like that, but maybe players never opted out after 2 or 3 years. Seems like a crazy approach but going after the best free agent pitcher, I suppose you could try anything.

AJ Burnett opted out this year.

[dpapo]

I think the first decent offer Sabathia gets from a California team, he's going to sign. As far as we know, Sabathia didn't show up at the meeting with Melvin today, but he did show up for the meeting with the Yankees on Sunday and told the Dodgers GM he wanted to play for the Dodgers. Once again, the quote I listed earlier,

 

""In the Bellagio Hotel to meet with Yankees brass on Sunday night, free-agent pitcher CC Sabathia ran into Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti and told him he wants to be a Dodger, Colletti said on Monday. "

 

I think Sabathia's first choice is to sign with a California team, if that doesn't work out, then he'll sign with the Yankees.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think the first decent offer Sabathia gets from a California team, he's going to sign.

 

Unless you're qualifying the Giants' offer as not decent (I wouldn't disagree), he's got one already.

[kramnoj]

I don't think there's anything to read in CC not meeting with Melvin. Hopefully they have developed some basic relationship. CC may want to meet with GMs of other teams just to get a basic feel from them. I don't think anybody is surprised that CC would prefer to play in California, but it certainly is odd that no California team has stepped up to make an offer. The Giants may not have the money and the LA teams are more interested in retaining hitters than going after CC.

[T B0NE 10]

ESPN article

 

LA GM: CC wants to be a Dodger

[dpapo]

The last I read about the Giants and Sabathia was that they were talking about a parameters of a possible deal. There are a bunch of rumors out there, but the only confirmed offers out there at the moment are from the Brewers and Yankees.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Why not offer 5/130.... 25/25/25/25/30 With an opt-out after two years or 30/30/30/20/20 with an opt-out after 3 years. The whole problem is that we can't afford him at the end of the deal. For the first 2-3 years, we can afford 25-30 million/season

[kramnoj]

The whole problem is that we can't afford him at the end of the deal.

 

I don't think one can say with certainty what the Brewers can afford 5 years from now. For one, they should have a new TV contract. We also don't know how many current players will be on the team 5 years from now. 5 years from now the Brewers could have cost controlled players at 3-4 positions in the IF, at C, 2-3 players in the OF, and 3 or more SP.

[JJHardy7]

Sabathia may cost $10 million per year more than the club wants to add to its payroll, but if they're projecting $10 million worth increased attendance with the signing then it would be worth it. I think it appears that Mark A is a big fan of continuity.

 

I don't think any player will be worth $10 million extra in attendance a year. I do agree that if CC = winning the Brewers will be more likely to get more season ticket holders in the short-term. I really like what Mark A has done for this team, but he has shown that he lets his emotions play in (Suppan) and with CC also being a California guy I think Mark A is pretty attached to the idea of keeping CC...even if that means a bad contract.

 

I do get a feeling that CC is waiting on a California team, but if he doesn't get the offer he wants I think he takes the Brewers deal with an early opt out than sign a deal with the Yankees without an opt out.

[sbrylski]

I don't think any player will be worth $10 million extra in attendance a year. I do agree that if CC = winning the Brewers will be more likely to get more season ticket holders in the short-term.

 

Not in name recognition alone, but name + talent that leads to more wins could. And I shouldn't have said just attendance - merchandising revenue and TV ratings and all of that goes into that $10 million as well.

[zzzmanwitz]

I know I'll be getting a CC jersey if he signs... that's $100 right there. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Principessa21]

This isn't that important, but I read that Sabathia requested another face-to-face with the Yankees and asked Cashman and Girardi about living in the NYC area and schools for his kids. Both said that Sabathia's interest is sincere. I still have no idea where he'll sign, but I've always leaned towards the Dodgers. It's a shame he'd have to put up with Joe Torre. Also I didn't know that he bought a plot of land in Orange County to build a home.