The CC Watch... Latest: Who knows?

[And That]

The best point in this thread was made by the person who said that you can't sign him if you don't make him an offer. Maybe 5/100 is low, but I don't think he'll be offended by it.

 

And who is to say that's the Brewers' best offer? Melvin wouldn't be doing himself any favors by going all-in on the initial offer.

[dlk9s]

I think there are differing views here of what a "lowball" offer is. Some consider "lowball" an unrealistically low, just for appearances offer. Others, like me, consider a "lowball" offer a reasonable one, yet not necessarily the absolute highest a team might go. I don't think there is any way that anyone in baseball, including CC and his agent, would look at a 5/100 offer from the Brewers and think the team was crazy to offer so "low."

[brwrsfan]

The Dodgers just offered Manny 25 million a year for 2-3 years. If he accepts that, or something similar, does that take them out of the Sabathia sweepstakes or would they really commit 50 million a year to 2 players? I'm sure they have plenty of money but I would think if they get Manny they don't really go hard at CC.

[fondybrewfan]

If they are going to offer 5/100 I bet Doug thinks they could realistically afford 5/115. Whats another $3M annually anyways? I would gladly pay 15% more for tickets if it meant we could sign Top Tier guys. I don't know if 5/115 would get it done either but it makes sense to me atleast that their initial offer would leave enough breathing room in the budget to allow for some negotiations.

My only fear is that if we miraculously sign CC that we can't afford to get a decent 3rd basemen or we have to rely on scrap heap relievers again. I have a feeling Doug is going all out for CC and hoping Hall and Riske rebound next year.

[rluzinski]

Some may say it's a fair price but it's not a fair market price. I think you take Santana's contract, add 5 percent and it get's you pretty close. 6/$145 mil. People have been saying 6/150 for awhile now and I think they are right. Sabathia has little incentive to sign before Nov. 14th.

[RyDogg66]

No Free Agent is going to sign a hometown deal until testing the market first. Ramirez and Sabathia are thinking that if they are offered these contracts by one team, just think what they will be offered on the open market.

[Diskono]

Some may say it's a fair price but it's not a fair market price. I think you take Santana's contract, add 5 percent and it get's you pretty close. 6/$145 mil. People have been saying 6/150 for awhile now and I think they are right. Sabathia has little incentive to sign before Nov. 14th.

Santana is probably the better pitcher though. I know it doesn't always work that way, but it's something to consider.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Dodgers just offered Manny 25 million a year for 2-3 years. If he accepts that, or something similar, does that take them out of the Sabathia sweepstakes or would they really commit 50 million a year to 2 players? I'm sure they have plenty of money but I would think if they get Manny they don't really go hard at CC.

 

LA can comfortably re-sign Manny & still have plenty of loot for Sabathia. In addition to being a gigantic market, they have a huge chunk of payroll coming off the books this offseason.

[Roderick]

Some may say it's a fair price but it's not a fair market price. I think you take Santana's contract, add 5 percent and it get's you pretty close. 6/$145 mil. People have been saying 6/150 for awhile now and I think they are right. Sabathia has little incentive to sign before Nov. 14th.

Santana is probably the better pitcher though. I know it doesn't always work that way, but it's something to consider.

Old timer's disease. Did Santana sign his contract as a free agent or when he had one year left on his contract? If he signed when he had a year left on his old contract, then I think we should assume CC, as a free agent, will get more than Santana did.

[Tbadder]

Yeah. 100 million seems like a lowball offer to me as well. Not in the sense of an insult, but in the sense this-is-the-best-we-can-do-I-know-it's-not-enough-but-we-just-wanna-let-you-know-how- much-we-love-ya offer. I'm guessing he gets 160/6. When Suppan types are making over 10 mil, 160/6 seems reasonable.

 

Think of this from a big market perspective. If big market teams can explode payrolls to the point where small market teams will lose significant money just to play .500 ball, you really only have to compete against 10 or 12 teams total. If I was the big boys I'd drive the price up radically and watch the small market guys die on the vine.

[Ennder]

That is how the Yankees end up missing the playoffs. Big market teams still have to make smart moves.

[logan82]

I hope the offer is for 4 /$100M instead of 5/$100. I think a 4 year deal is a reasonable offer while the same money over 5 years isn't as likely to be accepted. I really don't want CC on a 5 year deal. Also the further you get from a 3 year deal the less likely he is to accept because he is less likely to get another big deal. I think you have to do close to 3 or 7.

[1992casey]

I think there are differing views here of what a "lowball" offer is. Some consider "lowball" an unrealistically low, just for appearances offer. Others, like me, consider a "lowball" offer a reasonable one, yet not necessarily the absolute highest a team might go.

 

Exactly. It's just like using terms like "injury prone" or "underrated"/"overrated." We all have our own definitions, and those hot-button terms can frequently get in the way of objectivity in a message board discussion.

 

I think the bottom line is that it isn't fair to equate an initial offer to a "token" offer. It's only a token offer if a team doesn't continue negotiating.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Santana is probably the better pitcher though. I know it doesn't always work that way, but it's something to consider.

To echo a comment from an earlier poster, Santana wasn't a free agent. He likely would have gotten even more had he had the chance to test the open market.

[brewernp]

What would people think about 6/127mil ? Heard second hand but comes from source inside MP.

[TooLiveBrew]

Lotta risk involved in a 6-yr. deal. I just don't know. There's no question it'd be worthwhile for the first two or three seasons, but after that... seems like a crap-shoot. Not to mention that if the bidding has gotten to 6 seasons, any big-market team would 'easily' be able to fork over a better AAV than $21+M. If you're talking what CC could get over 6 seasons, I'd have to guess that $150M or more isn't out of the question.

[Invader3K]

What would people think about 6/127mil ? Heard second hand but comes from source inside MP.

I'd be for the Brewers doing that, even with the risk involved. I just don't see how some other team isn't going to offer him a little bit more per year at that point, though.

[logan82]

I don't like even 5 years let alone 6 years. I agree with TLB that once we get into 6 years we are going to get blown out of the water by a bigger market team.

[KCBrewerfan34]

The 6 yr deal may be enough for CC to say "yeah lets do it"!!! If I'm MA (and I'm not) I definitely do this. The Brew will most likely draw 3 million + again next year and this town goes absolutely Brewer crazy if CC comes back and then he also becomes BMOC!!!!

 

 

Let's do this!!!

[Invader3K]

Well, 127 million over 6 years works out to be about 21 million per. That might be a bargain in just two or three years. Assuming CC stays healthy, the Brewers could always flip him down the line in a trade, with that type of contract.

[MillerParkSouth]

Weren't people saying the same thing about the Suppan contract? I think that's a terrible way to look at things. I love CC, but the most I would offer him would be 4 years, maybe 5. No way do I touch a 6 year deal if i'm Melvin.

[Ennder]

Weren't people saying the same thing about the Suppan contract? I think that's a terrible way to look at things. I love CC, but the most I would offer him would be 4 years, maybe 5. No way do I touch a 6 year deal if i'm Melvin.

 

Not anyone with a clue was saying this~

 

Suppan got a backloaded contract with a no trade during the early years. His contract was pretty much built to make sure he had no trade value.

[fondybrewfan]

Weren't people saying the same thing about the Suppan contract? I think that's a terrible way to look at things. I love CC, but the most I would offer him would be 4 years, maybe 5. No way do I touch a 6 year deal if i'm Melvin.

The situation is a little different. This would be a below market (In terms of $ per year) for a Top5 pitcher, Suppan's deal was market value for a mediocre pitcher. A good pitcher with a good contract is more easily traded than a mediocre players with a mediocre contract. Iget what you are saying though.

 

I wonder what the going rate for Suppan would be this offseason if he were to sign a FA contract?

[MJLiverock]

Well Kyle Lohse just signed a 4 year $41 Million deal with the Cardinals. On baseball reference.com Suppan is listed at #1 as most similar pitcher at age 29.

[GAME05]

it's nice and safe to refuse to sign a pitcher to anything more than four years, but we'll never land a quality FA pitcher at only four. i guess it's either take a risk with a good pitcher or be stuck complaining about a staff filled with the Suppan and Lohses of the world. it's risk-free General Managing, but why would any good pitcher accept that?