UW Band suspended, will not be at Ohio State game

[Roscoe Chill]

That wasn't the point.

[temke]

from my madison days (7 years ago now...yikes!) the band people i knew partied just as hard (if not harder) than the greeks (which i was one of). the freshmen were required to "do things" (example...bring breakfast to pre-game practice...tough!!) for the upperclassmen. dont know if it went beyond that, but they seemed like their own little "fraternity" to me (again an outsider)

 

from an outsider standpoint, the acts on the bus trip in '06 (kissing to get to the can, "sex acts", etc) almost sound like tradition...like a rite of passage. some traditions die hard i guess.

 

hopefully they got the point.

[Brewbadger]

The people in the band party harder than anyone I know. I'm friends with a few guys who live in the Trumpet house (a lot of the same instruments live together), and the parties they used to throw were absolutely massive, total blowouts with hundreds of people. Some parties I remember them having five or six kegs, and 40-50 different varied bottles of the cheapest bottom shelf liquor they can find. It would be no surprise at the end of a night to see them kill 25 bottles of liquor and all of the beer. I live right behind the "Trombone" house now, and those kids are rocking out at all hours of the night. For the game yesterday, they had 10 kegs, five grills going full bore all day, and way too many people to count. Kind of disgusting, but wow. I've asked a few of these friends what the latest is about the current situation, and they honestly had no idea; they don't know what happened, who it was, how many people involved etc. Apparently, they think it was an extremely isolated incident involving just a couple people (freshman they said) who were hazed on the bus (the nature of the hazing is still unclear) and then the freshman called their parents and a few strongly worded letters were then dispatched to Mike Leckrone, who received them on Friday, and the rest is history. It kind of sucks for my friends in the band who weren't involved; they had a "free" ticket to the game as of 5 PM on Friday but had it ripped out from under them. A few spent 90-100 bucks to find another student ticket and the rest just didn't go at all.

[dadofandrew]

Sounds like a frat house only for those able to play X instrument.

 

I never would have guessed.

[lodiness]

While I oppose forcing people to do things they don't want to do (hazing), I also oppose punishing everyone (in this case, 80,000 fans including some who travel a long way to get there) because of the actions of a few. I think there are other means of punishment that would have been more fair to the innocent band members and the general public.

Where do you draw the line then? Who's going to take responsibility for this? I understand that the band is a huge part of the Badger Football experience. I would hope that these drunken little clown's would be able to realize what they do does not only represent them, but the entire university. They have gotten away with stuff like this for far too long, and maybe by punishing everyone, it will force the group to not only watch out for themselves, but what the others do also. I think that this is a huge embarasement to the University. This thing also happened last year, but it was forgotten quickly when the whole Lance Smith beating on his girlfriend story broke shortly after. I know that Lacrone is considered a god around here, but by being the head of a department like that, he needs to take some responsibility. I hope that some of his assistant, or possibly himself would be fired.

[PeaveyFury]

This thing also happened last year, but it was forgotten quickly when the whole Lance Smith beating on his girlfriend story broke shortly after.

 

And when that happened, Smith was suspended, not the whole football team, right? That's the problem that I and a lot of others probably have with this- why punish the innocent for a the actions of a couple of idiots? And why is one group at the university held to different punishment levels than another? Because one rakes in millions of dollars and the other doesn't?

 

Not to mention the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' questions that it brings up as well.

[Samurai Bucky]

Hi everybody...

 

My last year with the band was the '90 - '91 season, but some of what I have to say may be relevant. I would be lying if some of the same "types" of things weren't going on when I was in the band. There was the standard hazing type things (no Johnson Creek type hazing, though). When I was a freshman, some upper classmen went around the bus "suggesting" that people take a shot of Tequila. However if somebody refused, they weren't "forced" to do it. Also, I don't remember seeing girls kissing anywhere to go anywhere (I would have certainly remembered that).

 

The point I guess that I wanted to bring up is that we sort of policed ourselves. That may sound a big bass ackwards, so let me explain. Yes, there were parties, but they were typically closed to band members or people the band members knew. Yes... people would get trashed at these parties, but if anybody would start going over the line. They would be dealt with within the band. There were a few cases where a band member would be ready to step over the line and other members would physically grab that person, sit them down, and get in their face. That doesn't mean that eyebrows weren't shaved off once in awhile or people were drawn on, don't ya know... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

I don't think the lines today are much different, nor do I think people don't know where those lines are. Also, just like most people, limits would try to be pushed. However, we were able to try and take care of it before anybody got hurt or offended. Some of the things I hear the band did recently has me shaking my head. Perhaps I wasn't

 

Also, please keep a few other things in mind: the alleged events happened during a University-sponsored trip. Why wasn't the whole football team suspended when Smith was suspended? Because it happened outside of the context of the football team. These events happened during a trip. Also, call them geeky if you want, the band is very, very tight. Asking somebody to rat somebody else out is not that easy. I'm not saying that it is right to keep information, but I think this is the best way that Mike can flush out the truth. Peer pressure will be getting pretty high along with pressure from fans and alumni (even Band alumni).

 

I don't know if this provides any insight. As a former band member, I would like to see it resolved right away... and the right way.

[temke]

This thing also happened last year, but it was forgotten quickly when the whole Lance Smith beating on his girlfriend story broke shortly after.

 

And when that happened, Smith was suspended, not the whole football team, right? That's the problem that I and a lot of others probably have with this- why punish the innocent for a the actions of a couple of idiots? And why is one group at the university held to different punishment levels than another? Because one rakes in millions of dollars and the other doesn't?

 

Not to mention the whole 'innocent until proven guilty' questions that it brings up as well.

stories elsewhere say that they were unable to pinpoint individuals, so they punished the group. it all apparently blew up friday afternoon, so investigation time was minimal. they were apparently questioning band members one by one over the weekend.

[LouisEly]

Where do you draw the line then?

 

No more road trips. Once they finish the investigation, kick people out of the band. Don't punish 80,000 home fans because of the actions of a few.

[lodiness]

Don't punish 80,000 home fans because of the actions of a few.

If seeing the band is the highlight of the game for the fans, then the program has problems.

[Patrick425]

If seeing the band is the highlight of the game for the fans, then the program has problems.

To each his own, but to me the band is a big part of the College game day experience, whether it's for a #1 ranked team or #100.

[fondybrewfan]

Patrick. Has the band been reinstated yet? It has been 11 years.

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[BuckyTuba]

I think the end result will be that the band won't be allowed to do any road trips during the football season for a couple years.

 

I still think this suspension was completely unfair to the majority of band members who behaved themselves on the trip. Like it has been said before, the entire basketball team wasn't punished when Kevin Gullikson was caught repeatedly for underage drinking, and he was allowed to return the team later in the season. How are band members different for a possible first offense (and these seniors weren't seniors 2 years ago when the last set of events happened, unless they were a 6th year senior like I was for the first game this year)? They are not scholarship athletes who are getting supplied money for tuition, books and meals. I agree it is a privilege to be a part of a distinguished group like this, and there are certain standards of conduct that need to be followed. However, the way the University blindsided the band by showing up on a Friday before a nationally televised game to punish the masses for the actions of one or two sections is unfair and absurd. It was a slap in the face to all innocent, current band members and alumni band members.

 

If they're going to go after the band for hazing rituals, then when are they going to take a stand on the Greek system at UW?

 

I'm currently crafting a letter to the Dean of Students to let her know of my displeasure of the handling of the situation and of my intentions to discontinue any donations to the University of Wisconsin General Fund for the next few years.

[Patrick425]

Patrick. Has the band been reinstated yet? It has been 11 years.

Sorry, I'm a little slow, didn't get that one. Is it a Blues Brothers reference or "The Band" with Robbie Robertson and company?

[hawing]

Per the Cap Times website, it looks like the band will be playing on Saturday, 10/11.

[brucrustu]

Sorry, I'm a little slow, didn't get that one. Is it a Blues Brothers reference or "The Band" with Robbie Robertson and company?

I think it's a refrence to the date on your previous post.

10/09/19

[lodiness]

I think the end result will be that the band won't be allowed to do any road trips during the football season for a couple years.

 

I still think this suspension was completely unfair to the majority of band members who behaved themselves on the trip. Like it has been said before, the entire basketball team wasn't punished when Kevin Gullikson was caught repeatedly for underage drinking, and he was allowed to return the team later in the season. How are band members different for a possible first offense (and these seniors weren't seniors 2 years ago when the last set of events happened, unless they were a 6th year senior like I was for the first game this year)? They are not scholarship athletes who are getting supplied money for tuition, books and meals. I agree it is a privilege to be a part of a distinguished group like this, and there are certain standards of conduct that need to be followed. However, the way the University blindsided the band by showing up on a Friday before a nationally televised game to punish the masses for the actions of one or two sections is unfair and absurd. It was a slap in the face to all innocent, current band members and alumni band members.

 

If they're going to go after the band for hazing rituals, then when are they going to take a stand on the Greek system at UW?

 

I'm currently crafting a letter to the Dean of Students to let her know of my displeasure of the handling of the situation and of my intentions to discontinue any donations to the University of Wisconsin General Fund for the next few years.

Since when is the Greek System supervised by a UW Faculty Member in all aspects of there activities? Don't you think that these actions were a slap in the face of the entire University? If they could have pinpointed the individuals responsible, I have no problem with just punishing them. But, when no one says anything then you have to punish the group. Was Gulikson on a school sponsored activity? I didn't think so. I understand that kids will be kids, but they are also adults, grow up and start acting like it. Although they do not get scholarships, etc., they do get free transportation to the road games, and free admission. To me, that is some sort of payment. If I did something like this at my job, I would be fired in an instant, and if I was a part of a group that did this, I'm pretty sure we would all be fired. Don't you feel that you have a fairly skewed view of the incident since you are a member of the band?

[homer]

It'd be funny if they discovered it was only the drummers that were at fault so the next itme the band played, there could be no drum section.

[BuckyTuba]

lodiness wrote:

---

BuckyTuba wrote:

---

I think the end result will be that the band won't be allowed to do any road trips during the football season for a couple years.

 

I still think this suspension was completely unfair to the majority of band members who behaved themselves on the trip. Like it has been said before, the entire basketball team wasn't punished when Kevin Gullikson was caught repeatedly for underage drinking, and he was allowed to return the team later in the season. How are band members different for a possible first offense (and these seniors weren't seniors 2 years ago when the last set of events happened, unless they were a 6th year senior like I was for the first game this year)? They are not scholarship athletes who are getting supplied money for tuition, books and meals. I agree it is a privilege to be a part of a distinguished group like this, and there are certain standards of conduct that need to be followed. However, the way the University blindsided the band by showing up on a Friday before a nationally televised game to punish the masses for the actions of one or two sections is unfair and absurd. It was a slap in the face to all innocent, current band members and alumni band members.

 

If they're going to go after the band for hazing rituals, then when are they going to take a stand on the Greek system at UW?

 

I'm currently crafting a letter to the Dean of Students to let her know of my displeasure of the handling of the situation and of my intentions to discontinue any donations to the University of Wisconsin General Fund for the next few years.

Since when is the Greek System supervised by a UW Faculty Member in all aspects of there activities? Don't you think that these actions were a slap in the face of the entire University? If they could have pinpointed the individuals responsible, I have no problem with just punishing them. But, when no one says anything then you have to punish the group. Was Gulikson on a school sponsored activity? I didn't think so. I understand that kids will be kids, but they are also adults, grow up and start acting like it. Although they do not get scholarships, etc., they do get free transportation to the road games, and free admission. To me, that is some sort of payment. If I did something like this at my job, I would be fired in an instant, and if I was a part of a group that did this, I'm pretty sure we would all be fired. Don't you feel that you have a fairly skewed view of the incident since you are a member of the band?

Of course I have a skewed view of this because I was a member of the band.

 

The actions that took place didn't happen while the band was on a "University sponsored activity", but while they were off campus before the trip. Without having talked to any current band member about details, I'm 99% sure this is true. There's no reason to hang this over the head of Leckrone or any of his staff members. Also, I'd like to point out that the most serious of the charges, the sexual fondling, was proved to be false.

 

Without blaming any of the victim(s), I'm a little upset that they decided they needed to go to the top of the food chain with their concerns. A chain of command policy was instituted to help band members find someone to solve their problem without involving the administration. Instead of allowing the band staff and top student leaders in the band have a shot at solving the problem in house, these people decided to go to the top.

Let me put it in business terms: If your supervisor does something you don't like, do you email or call the CEO of your company? Of course not... you talk to your supervisor's supervisor and then escalate as needed until you get the proper response.

 

I'm sure that if Leckrone had gotten a chance to deal with this, he would have come down hard, but without the airing of the dirty laundry and the press conference like the University Administration had decided to do. Trust me, he's the last person at the University I ever, EVER, would want to peeve. He would have dealt with the issue just as effectively, but without the band missing the largest game of the season.

[temke]

a couple thoughts:

 

it was known that kevin gullikson was the person in question when his situation occurred. there was no question about who did what. same with the shoebox ordeal.

 

the greeks are scrutinized for hazing. they are overseen by the UW, and in particular, the same dean of students office that acted on the band. i believe the sig ep house was investigated for some hazing that took place just this past spring.

 

fraternities have been suspended and removed from the UW for their actions. i served on the greek council in madison (about 10 years ago now) and we received complaints of hazing that were investigated and dealt with by higher ups in the university...especially when they involve physical harm or dangerous binge drinking.

 

the problem with fraternity hazing is that nearly nobody complains about it. i was hazed, but the hazing didnt involve anything that i thought to be overly negative or threatening/dangerous. my fraternity had a hazing problem a couple years before i arrived and the situation was handled by the university. the older guys educated the younger guys about what was OK and what was not, and we passed that information to guys younger than us.

 

my wife's sorority was placed on probation (all of them) by both the university and their national council for a drinking incident that only a couple people were involved in.

 

it sounds like there was a complaint that was serious enough to require discipline and there was not enough time to determine who the culpable parties are/were. third hand stories made it sound like there was an initial effort to stonewall the investigation, which may have led to the severity of the punishment.

[tristarscoop]

We're in a day and age in which people do not take hazing lightly. There have been too many incidents nationally with college kids dying due to stupid hazing rituals that university's are incredibly sensitive to any situation that could be construed as such.

 

I went to a smaller school in the south and my sorority (and really, the greeks on my campus as a whole) went to the most ridiculous lengths to avoid even the slight implication that hazing could be happening. No counting when someone's drinking. It's not Rush, it's recruitment. They're not Rushees, they're Potential New Members. They're not Pledges, they're New Members. It went so far that we weren't allowed to give New Members a test to prove they'd learned the history unless everyone in the sorority took it.

 

That's all a result of hypersensitivity to the word hazing. It's a hot-button word and university's cannot be seen to be lax on handling any situation that could even possibly be hazing.

[BuckyTuba]

- Locking freshman band members in the bus bathroom for hours.
- this is an exaggeration for sure, unless things got horribly worse since I got out... and no one was ever locked into a bathroom, you have to lock those from the inside... what a joke.

- Forcing band members to play a game they call "Mystery Door No. 3," where students had to remove lingerie from a male band member in a room.
- this is news to me, although stuff like this happened back when i was a freshman, but in different sections... not the tubas.

- Making female band members kneel and bite a summer sausage.
- i'm assuming male and female band members had to do this.

- Performing degrading limericks.
- NOT LIMERICKS, OH MY GOODNESS!!! seriously?

[PeaveyFury]

Was Gulikson on a school sponsored activity? I didn't think so.

 

Can you honestly think that if Gullickson had been nabbed for underage drinking on say, the Big Ten Tournament trip, that the ENTIRE TEAM would have been suspended for their next game? I can say with absolute certainty that it wouldn't even be considered as a course of action.

[temke]

Was Gulikson on a school sponsored activity? I didn't think so.

 

Can you honestly think that if Gullickson had been nabbed for underage drinking on say, the Big Ten Tournament trip, that the ENTIRE TEAM would have been suspended for their next game? I can say with absolute certainty that it wouldn't even be considered as a course of action.

apples and oranges. i am pretty certain that if they had the time to pinpoint specific people, those people would have been punished...not everyone.

[PeaveyFury]

apples and oranges. i am pretty certain that if they had the time to pinpoint specific people, those people would have been punished...not everyone.

 

And why exactly didn't they have the time? The Band's performance against OSU had to be stopped because of some sort of impending doom or something? They couldn't wait a week while having the investigation to find the guilty parties and punish those at that point?

 

EDIT: And to remove any 'apples to oranges' stuff, say allegations surface that a member or two or three of the Wisconsin Basketball team were drinking underage and causing problems (or, say, hazing the freshmen team members) on the Big Ten Tournament Trip. Again, is there one person that thinks they would suspend the entire team before their next game while they "sorted things out"? Not a chance in the world.