Rosenthal says Hardy likely to be traded.

[kramnoj]

Blalock is tough. He really has had only 2 seasons where he has played a full season and he was good, and that was in 03 and 04. He hasn't been able to put together a full season out of the last two seasons combined. He did well against lefties this year, but for his career you wouldn't want him facing lefties, so you need a platoon partner for him. His defense is average at best. He would be attractive for a small deal, but there's no reason to think that Milwaukee would be able to get him to such a deal. If you moved Hardy to 3B, you would expect to get more value for a whole season than if you put Blalock there and you wouldn't be adding to your payroll. If the Brewers could snag him cheap, he and Hall would be quite the platoon, no question.

[dadofandrew]

Hank had 2 weeks that made his season stats go from below average to very good. He won't be available, or is very unlikely to be.

[piccione88]

I have to believe that Blalock will be very available. All the buzz is that his option will be picked up with the hopes that the rangers can trade him for some pitching. First base, or DH is the fallback plan.

[GB12]

I hope not. Hardy is the #1 position player I want signed longterm. I know people on here love Escobar and while I like him a lot too I'd trade him before Hardy. It'd be great if we can get both in the infield some how though. I think Hardy at third makes sense, but I'd rather have Hardy at short and Escobar at second. I don't know why that scenario is never brought up.

[trwi7]

I don't know why that scenario is never brought up.

 

Because you'd be wasting Escobar's defensive talent if you put him at second.

[GB12]

Because you'd be wasting Escobar's defensive talent if you put him at second.

Isn't his best defensive attribute his range. That'd be put to good use at second, especially with how little range Prince has.

[nate82]

Isn't his best defensive attribute his range. That'd be put to good use at second, especially with how little range Prince has.

Range is more important at SS unless you have a 1B that has limited range like Prince. Hardy really is suited to be a 3B he has an excellent arm and I would rather see him at 3B. Again I believe Hardy has a better chance to be a gold glove 3B than at SS.

 

If we really have to I would compensate Hardy for playing 3B instead of SS. Give him the contract he would have gotten if he would have stayed at SS. If not the next best option is a trade.

[endaround]

Paying Hardy $15m per to play an average 3B makes no sense.

[kramnoj]

Paying Hardy $15m per to play an average 3B makes no sense.

It wouldn't make sense for the Brewers to pay Hardy $15m to play SS either. If the best move for the team is to play Hardy at 3B, they should do that. If he pouts and doesn't perform well, that's not going to help him make his money when he becomes a FA.

[endaround]

No the best option is for the Brewers to choose a short stop and trade the other one. Putting square pegs in round holes just because you have a bunch of square pegs is bad. Add to that that Escobar is at least a year and could very well be two away, talk of moving Hardy to 3B makes little sense.

[lcbj68c]

To me the issue is whether Hardy would even be willing to move. He complained about moving in the batting order, and it's not in his best interest financially to agree to move positions. If I were Hardy I probably ask for a trade if they ask me to move.

 

Hasn't this rumour of the finances of playing 3rd vs Shortstop been dispelled a number of times on here already? I thought somebody posted the salaries of top and mid-tier players at both infield positions and showed that the top 3rd baseman make more money than the top Shortstops in the league. Therefore, I doubt Hardy rebukes a move due to money. I think he is just a shortstop by heart and therefore that is why he wouldn't want to move. If the Brewers have approached him about a long term deal (5yr/6yr), he's got plenty of time to worry about that next contract in regards to moving positions. It seems to be that the Brewers are content with continuing to offer arbitration when it comes to Hardy due to Escobar's ceiling. But to say that Hardy would make significantly less money at 3B doesn't seem to be valid. And as somebody pointed out. If somebody wants him next year at SS after playing a year at 3B, then he just simply moves back, no big deal?

[endaround]

No they didn't rebuke anything. Yes top players at all positions get paid similarly, but Hardy isn't a top 3B, he is a top SS. Hardy is Casey Blake at 3B. Micheal Young, a decent comparison to Hardy, just signed for $16 m per year for 5 years as an extension.

[kramnoj]

No the best option is for the Brewers to choose a short stop and trade the other one.

Why? Escobar has far more value to the Brewers than he would in a trade.

 

Putting square pegs in round holes just because you have a bunch of square pegs is bad.

 

What do you think the Brewers should do at 3B next year? I don't think Hall in a platoon at his salary next year is a good use of resources. If the Brewers can trade him for anything, or if they can give him away and find a stopgap 3B for a year, that would be good. I'm just not sure who that would be. I personally think Escobar at SS and Hardy at 3B isn't great, I just think it's better than staying with Hall, and I'm not seeing lots of attractive options out there.

 

Add to that that Escobar is at least a year and could very well be two away, talk of moving Hardy to 3B makes little sense.

 

A year or two away from what? Escobar wouldn't have the worst bat at his position if he was the SS next year, and he wouldn't be significantly worse than what Hall did this year.

[lcbj68c]

I dunno. Depth is important so I can't just see them, "picking one and trading another". What is Hardy going to do if the Brewers tell him to move? "No, I'm gonna make $9M instead of $11M at 3b, I'm not moving" and throw a tantrum. Sorry pal, arbitration's a witch, isn't it? Doug Melvin puts you on the roster and Dale Sveum/whoever makes the lineup card with you at third base, what is he going to do? Pack his bag and go home? A long term deal for the All-Star JJ Hardy would be the ideal, but should they choose to continue the arbitration route, For 2009, Escobar in AAA and Hardy at SS should be the play. For Hardy's final year of arby they should move him to 3B and let Escobar play SS. If Hardy cries about the $2M or so lost and the inability to feed his family and drive something other than a Ford Taurus, then he'll leave via Free Agency and then the team can do something else. But that is two years away. In the mean time, we own you bub, deal with it and play where you are told. I'm sure you'll have enough money to survive either way.

[twobrewers]

Yes top players at all positions get paid similarly, but Hardy isn't a top 3B, he is a top SS. Hardy is Casey Blake at 3B.

Exactly.

If you move Hardy to 3B - you end up with a good 3B.

In theory, since Hardy is a great SS - you should be able to trade him for a great 3B.

The problem is we need to find a team looking for a great SS and willing to trade a great 3B. (Preferably a LH hitter with good OBP)

That isn't an easy combination to find.

 

Alex Gordan from Kansas City would be a great addition - but he is so young, I can't imagine Kansas City looking to move him. Headley from San Diego would also be pretty good - but with Greene as SS, I don't see a need for the Padres.

[TheCrew07]

Again I say that pitching is the priority, it's much more wise to work the rotation on down, than from position players on down. See the Rays, who acquired their top 2 young starters in trades and still had Neimann in the Minors and drafted Price who's as sure a thing as Prior was, lets hope he stays healthy unlike Prior.

 

The point is the Brewers are currently very good at getting bats to MLB, but have stunk in the pitching dept thus far producing only Villy (acquired via trade), Parra, and Gallardo to go with this current crop of hitters. That's 2 starters and 1 Bullpen arm in addition to Sheets... In my opinion the Brewers should deal from a position of strength to fill a greater position of need and in my opinion quality, young starters are the greatest need going forward. Again while the offense definitely has holes the larger issue is what happens with the rotation when Sheets and Sabathia are gone. I don't know what deals will be available, if any this off season, and who it will take from the Brewers to get it done. However I feel very strongly about the Brewers jumping on that deal, whenever it presents itself. For example where would the Rays be without Garza and Kazmir? How good will Cinci's rotation be next year as Cueto continues to improve... what if Bailey finally puts it all together? If the Brewers want to compete in the central year in and year out the best way to ensure that in my opinion is to have the best rotation. If the Brewers are serious about contending year in and year out they need the pitching to do so, then hitting and defense. If they play any defense at all in game 1 this series might be 2 to 1 Milwaukee right now regardless of the offense.

 

As far as Hardy vs Escobar, as Hardy is a proven MLB player he has much more value than Escobar, so if you're trading one for pitching, it makes sense to move JJ as he could likely be enough to acquire an unproven younger pitcher on his own, maybe even a proven pitcher. If Fielder is truly equal value to a Shields, I'd much rather move 1 player, than move multiple players which creates multiple holes. Again I think it makes more sense for the Brewers to be sellers (MLB players for prospects) than to be buyers. Realistically when you're buying with prospects you can only make 1 or 2 deals before the depth is gone for good, so they have to be prudent about making the correct trades. Post Sabathia, I don't see the Brewers having the amunition available to make another prospect deal for starting pitching, who out there would be worth the money as upgrade over Villy/McClung as FA signing and worth a 4 year commitment? My whole value theory aside, I think it's much easier to fill position player holes in FA (Cameron) than it is to fill holes in the rotation or the bullpen.

[Roscoe Chill]

JJ Hardy is comparable to Michael Young? Young gets 250 (or so) combined hits and walks every single year. I like Hardy, but I don't think they're really all that comparable. And the whole salary comparison is misleading too, since Young got that deal after he played 6 or 7 years. Will Hardy make something along those lines in three years? Maybe, but three years is the operative phrase, or should be. Talking about Hardy making $15 million a year anytime soon is jumping the gun big time.

 

I don't see how Hardy, with his arm, and his 25 HR power is a terrible option at 3B for a team in need of a 3B and a young SS waiting in the wings. I'm not saying that the best option isn't to trade Hardy to a SS needy team, but to dismiss the idea of moving him to 3B? Why?

[TheCrew07]

I didn't dismiss the idea at all, I explained my position at great length. To simplify... I believe pitching is always the top priority, the Rays are an excellent example of this concept.

 

I'm fine with JJ at 3B or 2B if the Brewers aren't able to make deal for pitching or if that deal doesn't include Hardy. However if a team covets Hardy and is willing to give us a top of the rotation pitcher, I would hope the Brewers would take that deal every single time.

[twobrewers]

Nice post Crew07 (The long post)

Again I think it makes more sense for the Brewers to be sellers (MLB players for prospects) than to be buyers.

Trading Hardy for pitching makes sense. However, I highly doubt the Brewers are willing to go into the 09 season counting on Escobar at SS. I think Escobar is very likely destined for AAA - with a potential call-up to contribute later in the year.

I don't think the Brewers can realistically trade Hardy for pitching prospects based soley on fan reaction. (Can you imagine the "same old Brewers" fan's going crazy) However, if the Brewers fall out of contention next year - Hardy could very well be dealt before the deadline for a prospect at the time. Obviously, Escobar would be called to the big league clubs then.

I can't think of any "contending" team that trades MLB all-stars for prospects in the off-season.

[lcbj68c]

If you have a player in your system capable of playing a position (JJ at 3rd), why not fill the hole? Rather create a hole by moving him to fill a SP hole? We don't even know that there will be a hole in the rotation come 2010. Furthermore, I dont like pitching prospects for a JJ Hardy trade at all. And nobody is moving a #2 or greater MLB starter for a JJ Hardy. Leave the players in place and sign a free agent SP and fill 1 hole with 1 new player, not 2 holes with 2 new players and 1 rookie SS.

 

It's just my opinion. I get the Rays comparison completely, I lived there for 10 years. However, if you look at the SP, they had roughly no fewer wins out of their SP than the Brewers did. (Depending upon how you break down the starts vs relief appearances of Niemann,Hammel,Villanueva,McClung It was the effectiveness of the RP that didnt lose games, blow saves, etc. The entire bullpen went roughly 21-10 (.677) for the Rays this season while the Brewers went 22-17 (.564) again that is without factoring if McClung/Villanueva losses were bullpen or starts.

 

Given those things, I'd say that SP is not the problem in Milwaukee, it's RP. And if the holes were are looking to fill are RP than JJ can just suck it up and slide over and better to acquire pitching through free agency.

[TheCrew07]

I can't think of any "contending" team that trades MLB all-stars for prospects in the off-season.

Minnesota and Oakland? I'm not concerned with what other teams do or do not do, I'm concerned with building the best team possible. The Brewers have finally arrived in the post season, but they aren't a finished product, and next year they'll have plenty of holes to fill. Teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, and so on have FA's signed to long contracts (that are tough to move) in addition to their home grown prospects. It's been used literally 1000s of times on this site, but following Minnesota and Oakland's approach to maintaining their franchise seems like a very good model for the Brewers to follow.

[Roscoe Chill]

I wasn't necessarily talking to you TheCrew. More endaround, who basically says that Hardy will cost $15 Mil a year (someday?) so it doesn't make any sense to move him to 3B. Again, I'm not necessarily opposed to trading Hardy, but if you can't find a deal that you like, moving him to 3B isn't ridiculous, it's actually sensible. Think of how many times Hardy and Counsell were in the lineup at SS and 3B respectively, what's the difference between Hardy and Escobar? I'll tell you the difference, the defense on the left side of the infield would be spectacular.

[endaround]

JJ Hardy is comparable to Michael Young? Young gets 250 (or so) combined hits and walks every single year. I like Hardy, but I don't think they're really all that comparable. And the whole salary comparison is misleading too, since Young got that deal after he played 6 or 7 years. Will Hardy make something along those lines in three years? Maybe, but three years is the operative phrase, or should be. Talking about Hardy making $15 million a year anytime soon is jumping the gun big time.

 

I don't see how Hardy, with his arm, and his 25 HR power is a terrible option at 3B for a team in need of a 3B and a young SS waiting in the wings. I'm not saying that the best option isn't to trade Hardy to a SS needy team, but to dismiss the idea of moving him to 3B? Why?

 

You're right, Hardy is better than Young. Young is living off one great year at age 28, he was just breaking in at age 25 while Hardy is doing well. The point is that kind of money is why Hardy won't move to 3B. And why take a good short stop and make him an average 3B?

[lcbj68c]

I Think of how many times Hardy and Counsell were in the lineup at SS and 3B respectively, what's the difference between Hardy and Escobar? I'll tell you the difference, the defense on the left side of the infield would be spectacular.

Not to mention that a 2009/2010 Arbitration Hardy coupled with a under $1M Escobar will certainly be cheaper than a Bill Hall/Hardy infield or a Free Agent/Escobar infield.

[Roscoe Chill]

Hardy isn't better than Young. Just isn't. In two years? Maybe. And again, Hardy isn't coming anywhere CLOSE to $15 mil a season for a while.