Rosenthal says Hardy likely to be traded.

[piccione88]

Ken Rosenthal's latest column has a blurb about J.J. Hardy's future with the club. In the article Rosenthal says "The brewers' J.J. Hardy is realistic about his future with the club, knowing he will likely be traded to make room at shortstop for Alcides Escobar, one of the game's top shortstop prospects."

 

If we are going to start Alcides at short in my opinion a trade is the best way to go. If you move Hardy to third he could be one of the top defenders there, but he will be in the middle of the pack offensivley, which really hurts his value in a trade. Some teams that could be interested in a shortstop are the Dodgers, Twins, Tigers, A's, Blue Jays, Royals, and Giants.

[Oldcity]

I just don't see why they'd trade Hardy now. Why not wait a year and let Escobar have at least a full season at AAA? I'm not convinced he'll hit at all in MLB next year.

[endaround]

Rosenthal has also stated that Fielder would be traded. And pretty sure had Sheets traded by the deadline. And had Paul Coffey on the post season roster.

[fallingleaves]

I doubt Hardy will be traded next season, although he is the most likely target because of Escobar. I would rather the crew keeps Hardy and moves him over to 2nd base. It seems to me that Ricky Weeks is not going to pan out as the organization has planned.

[piccione88]

Rosenthal said that Fielder may be available this winter, and he very well might be, though it is very unlikely. This column seems more concrete that Hardy will be. I am not saying that Rosenthal is always right, and saying that coffey would be on the post-season roster was obvioulsy a mistake. Rosentahl however has access to more info than I do, and it is just something to think about.

 

As far as the move to second, if the brewers are going to move him and diminish his value, third base is a better option to me. Hardy has a very strong arm, which is better utilized at third.

[dadofandrew]

I'm not sure how moving him hurts his trade value...it's not like he cannot go back.

[colbyjack]

I've mentioned before that IMO Hardy defensively is a much better fit at 3B than 2B. I think he could be Gold Glove quality at that position, and I really hope the Brewers place a greater emphasis on team defense moving forward.

 

And since the team has a need at 3B, I don't see why they would trade Hardy, since I think having him at the hot corner and Alcides Escobar at SS could really help cement the Brewers infield defensively. Unless they have someone else in mind for 3B (Adrian Beltre maybe?) and want to move Hardy for a young starter given the demand for shortstops. Most to all of the teams that Rosenthal mentioned that could have interest in Hardy do have some young pitching depth to work with.

[piccione88]

To clarify that was me that threw those teams out there not Rosenthal. I agree that if the brewers cannot find a third baseman, then it would not be a bad idea to hang onto hardy. There is just such a demand for shortstop this year, and not a whole in the free agent market. The brewers could get a nice haul for Hardy obviously.

[JJHardy7]

I've mentioned before that IMO Hardy defensively is a much better fit at 3B than 2B. I think he could be Gold Glove quality at that position, and I really hope the Brewers place a greater emphasis on team defense moving forward.

 

Agree. I'm sick of the Hardy to 2b talk. It would somewhat negate his strong arm. Hardy to 2b doesn't make much sense to me. We have a need like you mention at 3b with no prospects on the immediate horizon to fill in. I'd extend Hardy if the contract was reasonable and put him at 3b. I would prefer to do this in 2010 than 2009 though. Give Escobar more time to develop. We really need a stop gap 3b next year IMO that is a high OBP guy.

[colbyjack]

I would prefer to do this in 2010 than 2009 though. Give Escobar more time to develop. We really need a stop gap 3b next year IMO that is a high OBP guy.

 

Agreed, and ideally such a player would be a LH hitter, but the problem is who would that be? Hank Blalock is probably the closest to such a player that might be available, even if the Rangers pick up his option (which they reportedly will do) since they could always trade him (and they might). Adrian Beltre is one of the most appealing 3B out there that is rumored to be available, but he clearly isn't an ideal fit. He just had surgery (on his hand I believe), hits LHPs better than RHPs and isn't stellar in the OBP dep't. On the flip side he has been consistently healthy for quite some time, has good power and plays very good defense at 3B. He would definitely be a one-year stopgap, but it is also important to remember that his best season so far came during a contract year, which he is entering again in 2009, something hyper money-motivated Boras clients have been known to do.

 

I'm also hesitant to trade Hardy since as I've mentioned before he is one of the few hitters the Brewers has that is relatively good across the board. Every other player in the Brewers lineup has a significant concern about their game (Prince's defense, the low OBPs of Braun and Hart relative to their batting averages, the inability of Cameron and Weeks to hit for a respectable batting average, etc.). Hardy also would seem to have the highest trade value given the need for shortstops as piccione8 mentioned.

 

So, do you move Hardy to 3B and bring up Escobar? Do you trade Hardy for a young starting pitcher, bring up Escobar and still try to find a 3B? Or do you keep Hardy where he's at and try to find a 3B? The first option obviously would be the easiest since it could be done in-house, but then you would have to deal with the growing pains of Escobar learning how to hit MLB pitching without any AAA seasoning.

[dadofandrew]

One thing to remember, Escobar is unlikely to be much of an improvement over the '08 3B production...that said, he would be very cheap, allowing money to be spent elsewhere.

[piccione88]

Not to turn this into a what to do about third base thread, but what about casey blake. 4 out of the last 5 seasons Blake has had on OBP of .340 or higher, and slugs at a decent clip. His defense is a little shaky, and would probably require a two year deal, but is the best option to me if we were to move Hardy. Beltre, and Blalock would require players, Blake only requires money. Plus Blake is one of the best utility guys in the game, so he would be useful in 2010 as well.

[logan82]

One thing to remember, Escobar is unlikely to be much of an improvement over the '08 3B production...that said, he would be very cheap, allowing money to be spent elsewhere.

The improvement would have to be on the defensive side. I think that Escobar would be a step down offensively from Hall/other guy platoon.

[fondybrewfan]

How about this for a blockbuster? Hardy, Fielder, Hart and LuCroy for Beltre, Clement, and King Felix/Morrow. The Mariners can move Hardy to 3rd, fill the blackhole they have at 1st, and get rid of Beltre's contract.

 

I know it will never happen but thought I would post it anyways.

[JohnBriggs12]

Rosenthal isn't speculating that Hardy will be traded, he's saying Hardy himself thinks he will be traded.

 

There's a reason Escobar was untouchable in the Sabathia deal. He's that good and everybody in the game knows it, including Hardy.

[dadofandrew]

He's that good and years away from his peak. His ceiling is about as high as anyone in the game.

 

And you know what...this is the first year he's hit much.

[bamberger]

In this day and age, you don't simply move a guy. Why would he move to 3B? If by some chance he would, I'd surely consider it when Escobar is ready. But most likely Hardy will have to be traded because he wants to play SS, where he has his prime market value.

 

To be competitive in 2009, they're going to need to keep Hardy along with Braun and Fielder. Hart would have some trade value, and Weeks, although not at all what they think he's worth. But in my opinion they're just going to have to tread water for 2009 and add a few complimentary players like in CF and the bullpen to try to balance out the lineup a bit until some of the load of prospects that will be in AAA this year are ready.

[twobrewers]

Agreed, and ideally such a player would be a LH hitter, but the problem is who would that be?

I think that is the only reason the Brewers would trade JJ Hardy.

 

Moving JJ to 3B make plenty of sense - but frankly, it is much harder to find a SS who can hit 25 HR and play good defense than it is to find a 3B who can hit 25 HR and play good defense.

 

If Escobar is the real deal, it might make sense to trade Hardy for a LH hitter who plays 3B and has a good OBP.

[BrewCrewForever]

So if we sing Hardy and move him to 3B to make room for Escobar at SS what do we do with Gamel? 1B or corner OF?

[PeaveyFury]

To be competitive in 2009, they're going to need to keep Hardy along with Braun and Fielder.

 

I tend to agree. There's no way this team can compete next year with Escobar at short. Fielder is a bit more touchy, as I think they can trade him for pitching, and even if they get a decent 1B back (an Overbay-type), they could be passable there.

 

So if we sing Hardy and move him to 3B to make room for Escobar at SS what do we do with Gamel? 1B or corner OF?

 

I think it's becoming quite clear that at least one of Fielder or Hart will be moved in the coming 13 months or so, possibly this offseason. Gamel likely ends up playing the position of whichever one is moved. 3B really doesn't sound like it will/would be a serious option for him regardless.

[Oldcity]

I'm not sure how moving him hurts his trade value...it's not like he cannot go back.

To me the issue is whether Hardy would even be willing to move. He complained about moving in the batting order, and it's not in his best interest financially to agree to move positions. If I were Hardy I probably ask for a trade if they ask me to move.

[kramnoj]

There's no way this team can compete next year with Escobar at short.

 

Do you think this team can compete next year with Hall at 3B? Escobar should provide more total production at SS next year than Hall did at 3B this year. Ideally Escobar gets more seasoning in AAA and there is a better player at 3B, but Escobar at SS and Hardy at 3B with Hall as expensive utility or traded is probably the best use of resources for 2009.

 

I guess it depends on what we mean by competing. The Brewers without CC and Sheets but with a full season of Gallardo and improvements or bouncebacks from some of their players should be a .500 team plus or minus 5 wins. That may be enough to compete next year if they get lucky. It's obviously far too early to say who will be competitive if we don't know what the Cardinals will look like, or other contenders for the WC.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think it's becoming quite clear that at least one of Fielder or Hart will be moved in the coming 13 months or so, possibly this offseason. Gamel likely ends up playing the position of whichever one is moved. 3B really doesn't sound like it will/would be a serious option for him regardless.

 

So if we keep Prince and trade Hart and Gamel moves to the OF. Do we put him in LF and have Braun in RF? I think Braun has the OF ability now and the arm to do that if needed. Not sure how good Gamel would be thrown into playing RF right away.

[dadofandrew]

Ryan is so good in LF, I doubt they move him. He might be willing to do so for the good of the team, but only for a big improvement.

[PeaveyFury]

Do you think this team can compete next year with Hall at 3B?

 

No, which is why I've advocated going hard after Blalock in other threads.

 

Not sure how good Gamel would be thrown into playing RF right away.

 

I agree with Al- Braun is very good in left, it's not particularly fair to move him again now. If they do indeed trade Hart this offseason, it still seems likely that Gamel will be given a full season at AAA to figure out RF. Heck, a lot of people thought Braun would take some significant time to become a good LFer, but he's been great in left this year, so it's not unreasonable to think that Gamel could catch on fairly quickly.