Does the offense need a dramatic overhaul during the offseason?

[MNBrew]

6. Bench: Rottino, Rivera, Gwynn, Dillon, and Hall could all contribute.

Clancy, would you look to keep Kapler, too?

 

I'd favor Nelson over Rottino and seriously look at the Twins for Matt Tolbert or Brendan Harris as 1st-string middle IF reserve who's also 3B-capable (or Punto, but he's a free agent to be). Personally I favor the change-of-scenery option for Billy Hall.

 

Also, as ugly as 3B was this year, I firmly believe Braun has to stay in LF. We're set in LF both offensively and defensively with Braun there. Fix 3B with a third baseman or at most another IF who has played well on D and produced solidly on O there.

[rluzinski]

If are considering offense and defense, 3B and 2B are the two positions that are most ripe for an upgrade. Weeks isn't a bad hitter for a 2B but I just don't think his defese will ever be good enough to justify starting there. Cameron is by no means a steal at $10 mil but if a cheaper/better option doesn't fall into their lap, they could do much worse than Cam.

 

 

"Pretty much an average player. His name is tossed around quite a bit here so I'm guessing that he has a high on base percentage. "

 

How can you have an opinion on a player when you don't even know his stats?

[Ennder]

Hart's 2007 was mostly mediocre just with two big hot streaks. It is entirely plausible that he is an .800 OPS low OBP player who is just an average fielder. Still young enough that it is hard to fully judge of course but I think we need to at least be sure to have a solid backup plan if he comes out flat early next year.

[kramnoj]

Suppan for Matthews is interesting, but there's a couple things to point out. Garret Anderson may not be retained by the Angels, so the team may not consider Matthews expendable. While Suppan's remaining contract isn't going to be fun to endure, Matthews is signed for 3 more years, through his 36 year old season. I'm not sure that Matthews is so much better that I would rather suffer through one additional bad year over Suppan's contract.

[clancyphile]

6. Bench: Rottino, Rivera, Gwynn, Dillon, and Hall could all contribute.

Clancy, would you look to keep Kapler, too?

 

I'd favor Nelson over Rottino and seriously look at the Twins for Matt Tolbert or Brendan Harris as 1st-string middle IF reserve who's also 3B-capable (or Punto, but he's a free agent to be). Personally I favor the change-of-scenery option for Billy Hall.

 

Also, as ugly as 3B was this year, I firmly believe Braun has to stay in LF. We're set in LF both offensively and defensively with Braun there. Fix 3B with a third baseman or at most another IF who has played well on D and produced solidly on O there.

Kapler's injury has me worried. If the Brewers can get a decent return for Hall, I'd pull the trigger on a deal, but Hall might be acceptable as a reserve 2B/SS/3B/CF.

 

As for third... it really depends. I would keep Braun as an option - if only as a 2009 stopgap - particularly if there is a good LF willing to come for a year. I earlier suggested that the Crew ought to sign Raul Ibanez, whose OPS+ has been over 115 for the last five years. He's probably better offensively than any third basemen we could get.

 

Is it perfect? No. But I'm not sure a better option is out there right now.

[DuWayne Steurer]

As for third... it really depends. I would keep Braun as an option - if only as a 2009 stopgap - particularly if there is a good LF willing to come for a year. I earlier suggested that the Crew ought to sign Raul Ibanez, whose OPS+ has been over 115 for the last five years. He's probably better offensively than any third basemen we could get.

 

Is it perfect? No. But I'm not sure a better option is out there right now.

 

There's not a better option than putting one of the worst 3B ever back at the hot corner, where he'll negate almost all of his offensive value? He had to have an OPS over 1.000 to keep his defense from making him a league average player when you consider defense.

[clancyphile]

As for third... it really depends. I would keep Braun as an option - if only as a 2009 stopgap - particularly if there is a good LF willing to come for a year. I earlier suggested that the Crew ought to sign Raul Ibanez, whose OPS+ has been over 115 for the last five years. He's probably better offensively than any third basemen we could get.

 

Is it perfect? No. But I'm not sure a better option is out there right now.

 

There's not a better option than putting one of the worst 3B ever back at the hot corner, where he'll negate almost all of his offensive value? He had to have an OPS over 1.000 to keep his defense from making him a league average player when you consider defense.

OK, again, Ibanez in LF+Braun at 3B.

 

What sort of combo do you think the Brewers could reasonably acquire that beats that option?

[brewblue1]

Getting a new manager who will hopefully bring in a batting coach that might actually teach these guys to hit could be the most important thing to happen in the off season. Skaalen failed miserably this season (and last for that matter), and his removal should have been sealed with the Brewers pathetic performance in the playoffs.

 

I would be willing to bet that Ricky and Corey are still savable if paired up with a hitting coach who might actually do something with them and work to fix the problems.

 

The only Brewers I want to see GONE are Suppan (not gonna happen), Sheets (he's just become to unreliable) and that terrible platoon at 3rd of Hall/Counsell.

[T B0NE 10]

My plans

 

 

1. Do whatever it takes to get CC

 

2. Let Sheets go

 

3 Somehow upgrade Bullpen

 

4 Trade Bill Hall try to get bullpen help if possible.

 

5 Try resigning Corey Hart at a bargain price (He isn't as bad as he played lately)

 

6 Pick up Cameron's option- wouldnt bother me too much to see him go though, I think TGJ could be an OK leadoff guy, give him a shot maybe. It sure would be nice to get a true leadoff guy

 

7 Let Gagne go

 

8 RELEASE SUPPAN or trade him for anything you get get.

 

9 Maybe resign Durham, use as a utility man, not a big deal if we lose him though

[logan82]

I dont' expect major changes over the offseason or much reason to make any. I think the biggest change may end up being a position player traded for pitching. Other than that 3B is the only real need for next year. Of course if something better comes around I say make the change. I think our offense will be okay with no major changes.

[DuWayne Steurer]

As for third... it really depends. I would keep Braun as an option - if only as a 2009 stopgap - particularly if there is a good LF willing to come for a year. I earlier suggested that the Crew ought to sign Raul Ibanez, whose OPS+ has been over 115 for the last five years. He's probably better offensively than any third basemen we could get.

 

Is it perfect? No. But I'm not sure a better option is out there right now.

OK, again, Ibanez in LF+Braun at 3B.

 

What sort of combo do you think the Brewers could reasonably acquire that beats that option?

I know Clancy, Ibanez and Braun. You've said it in several threads. The point is, Ibanez is nowhere near enough of an offensive threat to be worth offsetting almost ALL of Brauns value by putting him at a position where he was one of the worst to ever play the game. It's real easy to maximize offensive value if you pay no heed at all to defense, and I think just about everybody here knows that one of this teams major weaknesses this year was defense. Braun will at best be -20 defensively at 3B in a full season, and that's being optimistic. Given that the Brewers won the wildcard by one game, I'm not sure why we want to automatically give 2 games away (at least) with his defense to put Ibanez in left. Ibanez is also going to be 37 years old, so to expect him to keep producing at the same level is a stretch.

 

 

The constant moving of players around the diamond may or may not have an effect on their offense, but several of them have been vocal about being moved around, or not wanting to be moved. These guys are't strat-o-matic cards that you can just write new positions on when you want to get another stud bat into the lineup. I'm sure Braun will be the FIRST guy to say he'd much rather stay in left field than be thrown back at third base where he knows as well as anyone, he's a butcher. Never mind the fact that he's a year removed from fielding ground balls or trying to prepare for the position all over again.

[Ennder]

Hall can't start at 3B next year, that is pretty much the biggest overhaul the offense needs. There are arguments to be made for replacing Weeks, Hart, Cameron but the offense will be ok with those guys starting most likely.

 

Here is how I see the core of the team.

 

C - Kendall/Rivera. Kendall needs to sit more next year, he is too old to be playing that many games

1B - Fielder. I don't see trading him just yet.

2B - Weeks. We can sign Durham and platoon them or I could even see trading Weeks but for now I assume he gets the majority of playtime next year as a league average 2B.

SS - Hardy. I guess we could end up trading him for a SP but I'd rather keep him at least 1 more year while Escobar gets some AAA in.

3B - Free Agent. Hall is ok as a utility infielder or even as a platoonmate at 3B but he can't be the starter.

LF - Braun. Wouldn't mind him moving to RF, I'd hate to see him wasted at 3B where his value is minimalized.

CF - Dunno. No problem at all with bringing back Cameron but I don't thnk it is a given either. He needs to sit more as well given his age and how demanding CF is.

RF - Dunno. My guess is we stick with Hart and I'm fine with it as long as we have a viable backup plan. Are Gamel and Nelson viable?

 

SP - Parra, Bush, Gallardo, Suppan. This is a solid enough 2-5 of the rotation, we just need to sign another solid guy. A 1 year deal for Sheets would be optimal if he accepted arbitration. Barring that I'd go after some 2nd tier SP and hope Gallardo or Parra goes ace on us. I think signing Sabathia would be about the worst mistake we could make but that is probably a discussion for another thread.

 

RP - Too complex to know what to do right now but Riske, Villanueva, McClung, Stetter should all be back at the very least and that is a solid core to start to build on at least.

[brewmann04]

Sign CC is option 1 No question.

I think the Brewers will look into their Options for their new Manager.

I think the Brewers will look to explore some Trades .

I am not so sure replacing the Hitting Coach is the answser it more looking to add some high OBP hitters and contact guys.

[squambaum]

I hope this team does something because without the addition of Sabathia this was just the same hang around .500 team it has been for the past few years. If we can get a good return for some of our pieces I wouldn't mind a shakeup...as long as it's not done just for the sake of shaking things up. Let's shock the world and pony up for CC.

[MNBrew]

Regardless of what players may say in an interview, I think many of them are unwilling to change their ways based on the coaching of someone who had very little success as a player in the majors and in some cases (Skaalan - if I'm not mistaken) not even one AB in the majors.

That logic doesn't hold water. The Brewers' hitters didn't have any success when they were listening to Rod Carew, either, and he's an HOFer. The same problems still exist from when he was here, whether it's actual results or the inability to make adjustments.

 

Charlie Lau wasn't much of a major league hitter but was one of the most respected hitting coaches in the '70s and '80s.

[holybannana]

The team did pretty well. Bring 'em back and hope some guys like Hall and Weeks have better seasons. I like Cameron in CF, he had a great year offensively and his defense is really good too.

 

I would focus on coaching the hitters to get their OBP up a bit more and then focus on acquiring starting pitching and some bullpen help.

 

They really aren't that far off and with their youth, they're doing pretty good.

 

Third base and Catcher were the real problems this year. I have faith in Weeks and believe he can and will improve next year to become the hitter we know he can be. But lead off isn't the place for him. #2 is a great spot for him so he gets those fastballs.

[TooLiveBrew]

Hart's OBP wasn't great all year but only atrocious in September

 

Hart's OBP was bad for 4 of the 6 months of the season.

 

 

3B - Free Agent. Hall is ok as a utility infielder or even as a platoonmate at 3B but he can't be the starter.

 

Per Cot's, here is the list of possible 3B FA this offseason. Asterisks indicate the player's current contract has an option for 2009:

 

Rich Aurilia SF

Casey Blake LAD

Hank Blalock * TEX

Joe Crede CWS

Morgan Ensberg NYY

Nomar Garciaparra LAD

Chipper Jones * ATL

Corey Koskie MIL

Greg Norton TB

 

Unfortunately, that's not very good. I agree with you 100% on Hall, Ennder, but I think 3B might have to be addressed via trade. Didn't mean to nitpick as much as just post the list of possible FAs. For the record, I think Durham would actually be someone to consider at 3B for 2009, even with his age as a concern. I know he hasn't really been a 3B in the bigs, but his skillset really says to me that he could fit at 3B. That way Hall could be a supersub, and Branyan could be retained for part-time duty & PH appearances. Durham at 3B would solve the quest for a LH bat (obv. he bats both) & hopefully add some better OBP.

 

 

EDIT: Thanks, MNBrew

[MNBrew]

Not that we'd want him back or that he was your point anyway, but Helms should be off that list now since he just re-signed with FL for 2 years on Fri., Oct 3rd, per ESPN's transactions page.

 

LINK

[Hate those Rodents]

I think we either tread water for another year and hope Hall/Branyan/Dillon can improve or we speed up Gamel. If Gamel can't play third well enough, Green should be ready by 2010. I see no reason to go out and make a splash there in the offseason. We need to do the above (somewhat risky) but this is precisely the type of risk an organization like the Brewers needs to take to be a consistent playoff team.

[MNBrew]

I think we either tread water for another year and hope Hall/Branyan/Dillon can improve or we speed up Gamel. If Gamel can't play third well enough, Green should be ready by 2010. I see no reason to go out and make a splash there in the offseason. We need to do the above (somewhat risky) but this is precisely the type of risk an organization like the Brewers needs to take to be a consistent playoff team.

Right on, HTR: quality moves over quantity! The smartest, "right"-est moves only.

[clancyphile]

The team did pretty well. Bring 'em back and hope some guys like Hall and Weeks have better seasons. I like Cameron in CF, he had a great year offensively and his defense is really good too.

 

I would focus on coaching the hitters to get their OBP up a bit more and then focus on acquiring starting pitching and some bullpen help.

 

They really aren't that far off and with their youth, they're doing pretty good.

 

Third base and Catcher were the real problems this year. I have faith in Weeks and believe he can and will improve next year to become the hitter we know he can be. But lead off isn't the place for him. #2 is a great spot for him so he gets those fastballs.

Was catcher a problem offensively?

 

Yes.

 

That said, I think Kendall certainly seemed to work very well with the pitchers (Sheets improved from 3.82 to 3.09, and Dave Bush dropped nearly a full run from his 2007 ERA - 5.12 to 4.18). If Braun is going to NOT be moved from third on account of his defense, then I think Kendall's skill with the pitchers probably warrants keeping him around - and possibly even an extension. If the Crew is going to lose Sheets and Sabathia, we may need Kendall's skill in working with Bush and others.

[MNBrew]

In the same way that cleaning up his defensive techniques was a huge goal of his offseason last year, I wouldn't be surprised if Kendall makes his offense his focus this offseason. His contract is now vested and the pitching staff loves the guy.

 

Between the periodic pop flies to shallow right and the endless stream of groundouts to SS (I think he did the latter every time up today!), it wouldn't take a ton to make some positive fundamental improvement.

 

That said, it wouldn't hurt anything for Rivera to play in at least another 2 dozen games in '09, either. It's not like he was chopped liver behind the plate.

[sbrylski]

Don't underrate Ray Durham and Mike Lamb. I think guys like these two guys get funneled into an unfair "Royals' Starter" category. (Apologies to Royals' fans for the jab.) They aren't great and they aren't sure bets, but they are plenty good enough to be the 7th and 8th guys plugged into your lineup. Durham's not the .380 OBPer he was this season, but if you follow the fluctuations in his BABIP he's been a .350s/.360s talent for his entire career. Mike Lamb is also a guy that in a good year has been a .360 OBPer.

 

We aren't going to have an All-Star player at every position. I think Durham and Lamb get overlooked as the OBP over SLG guys everyone is looking to add. Just keep them around.

 

I'm not an advocate of "giving up" on Weeks yet, though I understand if we want to compete next year we can't just sit on our hands. Durham or an external option over a full year is probably better than another mixed bag season from Weeks. So if we get a good offer for him, especially for pitching, I guess I would have to take it. It would also be great to keep them both around in a platoon, also playing the hot hand. That would kill Weeks future trade value, but it might already be low enough to not matter.

 

Keep the outfield as is.

 

If we need pitching through trade, use Fielder. Gamel or Nelson can fill the role next season.

 

EDIT: And please keep Escobar in AAA this season - his bat ain't ready.

[Patrick425]

I was going to start a whole new thread regarding next year and whether or not we need to take a "step back". The title of this thread is about possibly "overhauling the offense", but I can see that it has evolved into a full blown discussion about the team as a whole and what the course of action should be next year.

 

I don't think the team needs to abandon playoff hopes next year in order to "retool" the team for the future and I will be very disappointed if that is the plan of action they choose.

 

All we are in real danger of losing that everyone is fretting over is Sheets and Sabathia. The Brewers were roughly 8 games above .500 and very much in the thick of the Wild Card and division race prior to getting CC early in July. They got to that position basically on the shoulders of a pitching staff consisting of Sheets, Parra, Bush, Suppan, and McClung. Take Sheets out and insert Gallardo and basically that is where you start the 2009 season (although..I'm not sure of McClungs status...FA?). I have a feeling that the Brewers will attempt to add an arm to this rotation before the start of next season. So, I don't think the starting pitching situation is dire.

 

How many years did we sit their and preach patience. Just wait everyone said. Wait until Fielder, Weeks, Hart, Hardy, Braun, Sheets, etc are ready. When they come up, then we can start thinking like a playoff contender. Well, their here. They have been hear together for the last 2 years and now what do we want to do? Dismantle them?? Four of those offensive players (that will be back next year) have been all-stars (and not "your team needs a represtative" all stars) in either 2007 or 2008. Would it be positive for the Brewers to inject a player into the lineup that show a little more disipline at the top of the lineup? Yes, but my point is that they did manage to get to the playoffs with this relatively young and unexperienced lineup.

 

There has been talk of trading Fielder. I understand the thought behind this. He's arby eligible. After 3 more years he'll belong to another team. Let's get qaulity for him while we can. So, is this going to be the pattern? Anytime a player starts getting outside our pocketbook, we get rid of him 3 years before we really need to? I'm only for trading Fielder if we get someone in return that can provide immediate results in 2009 (with no innings limits or other "3 year breaking in periods"). I have no interest in trading for "prospects" or "building blocks" that may or may not benefit the team in 2010 or 2011.

 

I guess my point is that all the prospects we have been waiting for are here (with some more on the way). These guys got us to the playoffs this year. These are our playoff window years. Let's not take a step back, or retool, or rebuild. Doing that just burns another year that the Brewers have these talented players in their possession. The Brewers played very poorly for basically the last month. They must have done some things right during the rest of the year to get them into the playoffs. I'm all for adding pieces or making some tweaks, but lets not regress, let's improve and keep moving forward.

[Hate those Rodents]

I think lots of us think that there is a chance (far from a certainty) that the wave of Gamel, Escober, Salome, Green will be able to put up very nice numbers as well. So, if you can get value for a Fielder rather than giving him a 50-100 million dollar long term value, the future and present still will be bright.