Does the offense need a dramatic overhaul during the offseason?

[bjkrautk]

Does anyone else think that the shape/direction of the offensive overhaul will depend heavily on what happens to the Brewers pitching staff?

 

Without CC and Sheets, it would be a lot easier to justify dropping the option on Cameron, and taking a look at players like Gamel (RF? 3b?) or Escobar (IF).

 

Gallardo

Parra

Suppan

Bush

McClung / Capuano

 

Is that good enough to win the WC in '09?

 

I'm all in favor of defense and OBP, but I think it's far too early to figure out whether next year will be a rebuild or a reload season. The interim manager position may well be the first signpost along the way.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think if we lose CC and Ben which is likely, we need to go out and sign or trade for at least a #2 type starter to throw into the rotation with Yo, Manny, Dave and Jeff. I think McClung and Cappy should be in the pen. I would try Seth as the closer or at least 8th inning guy. He has that late inning stuff.

[clancyphile]

Everyone keeps talking about positions, in particular 3rd base. What's the solution? Go out and get another power hitting 3rd baseman? That's not what's needed here. I prefer to think about everyone's role in the lineup and understanding that role. It's clear to me that no one that the Brewer's have tried in the #1 position (or number 2 for that matter) has truly grasped an understanding of that position in the lineup and what their job is at that spot. This leaves guys like Fielder and Braun feeling like they each have to hit 5 HRs every game in order for the Brewer's to compete. The offensive vacancy is not a field position, it's a lineup position.

 

There is also some sort of coaching issue going on imho as well. It's clear that the Brewer players are not being coached very well when it comes to situational hitting. Things like staying back and looking for that outside pitch to drive the other way with guys in scoring position is a skill and thought process that seems to allude most of the Brewer's hitters.

1. Third base drew such attention because Hall has seriously underachieved the last two years. Sure, he hits the ball pretty far when he makes contact, but making contact has been pretty rare the last two years. Last year, the Brewers had superb offense from that position as well (Rookie of the Year-level offensive production), but moved the guy. The Brewers' own actions heightened scrutiny at third base.

 

2. The coaching issue may be fixed by a spring training under Sveum. It may not make them the best at situational hitting. But if they can go from very bad to average, the team could be in very good shape.

[Tbadder]

The Brewers are really between a rock and a hard place.

 

As much as we would love to get rid of Hall; he's basically untradeable. He's so bad, and his contract is even worse. The best the Crew can hope for is a turn around, which not many of us believe will happen. Despite the bad news, I think we gotta keep him and Russell and run the platoon again. If Mark insists that something gets done, then I suppose that means free agency, which might also mean losing picks, something you don't want to do with Jack Z. around. 3rd base should remain a black hole until Gamel learns defense and offense (remember he was Corey Hart bad the second half of the year). Go with the platoon one more year and hope Gamel's the real deal.

 

2nd base is easy--keep Weeks! Offensively he's league average, and defensively he's a ton better than Durham who couldn't cover a phone booth. As soon as Escobar proves himself in AAA (I'm betting half way thru the season) he's your 2nd baseman.

 

The most salient point here is that the Brewers need to be patient. There is no way they can be competitive next year. They're going to finish behind Chicago, Houston, St. Louis, and Cincinnati next year, so there's no reason to make mistakes in spending or rushing people or making desparate, nefarious trades.

 

There's no way you can trade Fielder (although I hate players who can't see their toes much less touch them). Hart you can't get rid of because of his Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde season. He's just going to have to sort himself out and prove he either stinks or he's a borderline All-Star. Trading him is far too risky.

 

Next year needs to be a year where we experiment with the bullpen rather than dole out a lot of cash to has-beens. DeFelice, Dillard, Stetter need to be major fixtures. Shouse needs to be resigned (I think he's a free agent--might be wrong about that).

 

The starters, well, what can you say. We're gonna be awful, but so what. The team as a whole isn't in a position for it to matter. Parra has to show improvement. Gallardo has to remain healthy. Bush and Suppan need to eat innings. McClung needs to get 10 to 15, 3 inning saves (one of the things I like about Sveum). Consider him a mini-starter who's really a reliever.

 

Gillespie (sic) and Cain have to have big years, in the sense that they must prove they'll be ready for right field and centerfield eventually. Then after 2009 we can wheel and deal to our heart's content.

[Patrick425]

Third base drew such attention because Hall has seriously underachieved the last two years.

I understand there is a bit of a hole at 3rd base right now. However, your prototypical 3b is not a high OBP, lead off type guy. IMHO, finding that high OBP type guy would be the first step that I would hope the Brewers would consider in the offseason in an effort to improve the offense.

[dadofandrew]

Hall, as a SS, is likely league average even in a bad year. SS's simply do not hit. Hall's value is lower than previous, but he has value. As a 3B, not so much, you'd probably have to accept a bad contract in return.

[Oldcity]

The one thing that totally boggles my mind about this offense is Corey Hart. Seriously, what the hell happened there? The guy had an .892 OPS last year! He's never had close to this bad of a season in his professional career. How can a guy go from well above average to utter garbage from age 25 to 26?

 

I think deciding on the future of Hart this year is more important than any other offensive personnel move.

[Ennder]

Third base drew such attention because Hall has seriously underachieved the last two years.

I understand there is a bit of a hole at 3rd base right now. However, your prototypical 3b is not a high OBP, lead off type guy. IMHO, finding that high OBP type guy would be the first step that I would hope the Brewers would consider in the offseason in an effort to improve the offense.

The #1 priority is improving 3B in my opinion, it is more important than getting LH, it is more important than raising the team OBP. Hall cost us roughly 18 runs of offense at 3B in half a season or almost 2 wins alone. The team can survive with a low OBP, high SLG right handed approach it just isn't ideal. Having dead weight in the lineup is much harder to survive.

 

If we could sign a decent 3B who was RH and SLG heavy and dump Hall OR we could sign a high OBP LH guy to replace Cameron but be stuck with Hall at 3B I'd gladly replace Hall and live with the teams flaws. Hopefully we can do both.

[TooLiveBrew]

No way should an under .250 hitter, with no power, who's only slightly above average defensively and in his mid 30s be starting 150 games.

 

There's plenty to rip Kendall on, but to call him only slightly above average defensively this season is borderline delusional. The guy was absolutely stellar defensively, though I agree that his CS% will likely drop next season -- if for no other reason than that people are aware you can't just run on him at will anymore. Oh, and I fully agree that him not getting more time off was insane. Just one of the many reasons I'm glad Yost is gone (not that Sveum was any better in getting Jason rest).

[BrewCrewForever]

Kendall is fine, however whoever the Manager is next season should start Rivera a little more then Yost/Sveum did. But no doubt Jason should get the vast majority of starts at catcher. His defense is to valuable.

[jhart05]

You know I was just checking out the team stats for the #1 spot...

 

National League Splits for the #1 spot in the order

 

An OBP of .355 is pretty good, actually.

 

Weeks career OBP is .352.

 

If he could just do that or maybe a little better next year, they would be fine with him leading off.

[logan82]

You know I was just checking out the team stats for the #1 spot...

 

National League Splits for the #1 spot in the order

 

An OBP of .355 is pretty good, actually.

 

Weeks career OBP is .352.

 

If he could just do that or maybe a little better next year, they would be fine with him leading off.

We saw a lot of the same complaints last year about how Weeks wasn't a good lead-off hitter. He was one of the best OBP wise last year. I think the really high OBP guys are sluggers and middle of the order hitters with a few non-sluggers mixed in. I am seeing a .342 OBP for lead-off hitters in your link.

[jhart05]

Yeah the .342 is the league average.

 

So if Weeks could just get back up to his career average, and hopefully slightly improve that, they would be fine with him there.

 

Weeks was not the problem in September, I think anyone who can read stats can agree to that.

[TooLiveBrew]

What I don't like about Weeks at the top of the lineup is that he appears to not go up with his best approach. Instead, his approach appears to be, 'work the pitcher deep in the count, and draw lots of BBs.' I think Rickie has done an admirable job in filling the leadoff role for the Crew for some time now, but I have come to believe he is miscast there. I would love to see a high(er) OBP bat added for the leadoff role in 2009, and allow Rickie to move down in the order to the #3/5/6/7 spot(s).

 

Without the charge (whether it's been from the coaching staff/front office, Weeks himself, or both) of 'being a leadoff hitter', I think he could really flourish. The BBs will still be there, and could reasonably grow if Rickie can more consistently drive the ball like he has at times this season. When Rickie actually gets into baseballs, oftentimes they really 'stay hit'. He's hit some of the hardest shots on this team all season long, and honestly has had more than his share of bad luck with mashing liners right at defenders. Weeks is one of the Brewers hitters about whom I'm least concerned heading into the future.

[RobertR]

Kapler and Branyan can't stay healthy, so they really shouldn't be considered for starters. Useful depth, but not starters. I'm fairly certain that they'd both be starting in this series if they were available. And let's not forget, both of them were basically out of baseball, so we shouldn't assume this year's level of performance going forward.

 

I think Brad Nelson will help as a left-handed bat that can play the corners. At the very least, he'd be a useful platoon option if Hart doesn't get himself straightened around. I think if he had more experience during the regular season he'd have a bigger role in the playoffs.

 

I can't see Escobar jumping two levels and getting thrown into the fire.

 

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of a straight up Weeks for Robinson Cano deal? Cano had a bad year, but it wasn't awful and he'd definitely improve the infield defense. A change of scenery might be good for both of them. Cano hitting left handed might help balance the lineup too.

 

I believe next year would be the last year of a contract for Adrian Beltre and the Mariners are likely shopping him around. His road splits are very good and getting out of Safeco should help him. Any interest?

 

Robert

[JJHardy7]

We saw a lot of the same complaints last year about how Weeks wasn't a good lead-off hitter.

 

I'm not a Weeks guy, but I don't think he should be traded. I hate having him lead off because I wonder if that's the reason why he looks clueless at the plate sometimes. I know Hart is struggling and I wouldn't do this now, but I wouldn't be opposed to having Hart lead off next year and Weeks hitting 6th or so (of course this all depends on how the off-season goes). 'Forcing' Hart to have a leadoff approach may do the trick and in the 6th spot Weeks should have more opportunities to take a pitch and drive it and not worrying about taking xyz pitches. Just a thought.

[jhart05]

Oh, he's definitely miscast. I don't think there is any doubt there. He's the leadoff hitter on this team by default.

 

Unless they don't pick up the option on Cameron, and can find a true leadoff hitter who can play CF, Weeks will probably be asked to do it again.

 

And I really don't think Weeks will regress next year, so I guess I'm trying to say, they'll probably be all right if Weeks does have to leadoff. Not the most ideal situation, but certainly not the worst or even in the bottom half of the NL.

[bcf5575]

i think that some of the problem is that there are too many holes in the lineup to "hide" guys like kendall and counsell - who are obviously getting pt based on their defense, not their offense. right now I have no confidence in anything good happening after jj bats. 6-9 is an absolute dark hole thats has virtually no chance of scoring a run or starting a rally.

 

the spots in the lineup that I think could use upgrading offensively are C, 2b, 3b, cf. I dont see a change at C for next year. But I think that 2 of the other 3 spots need upgrading - with one of the spots filled by a more prototypical leadoff hitter.

[colbyjack]

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of a straight up Weeks for Robinson Cano deal? Cano had a bad year, but it wasn't awful and he'd definitely improve the infield defense. A change of scenery might be good for both of them. Cano hitting left handed might help balance the lineup too.

 

I was under the impression that Cano, like Weeks, wasn't the greatest 2B defensively. That is an interesting change of scenery swap though.

 

I believe next year would be the last year of a contract for Adrian Beltre and the Mariners are likely shopping him around. His road splits are very good and getting out of Safeco should help him. Any interest?

 

There has been some interest in Beltre in random threads in the trade forum. While he isn't the ideal acquisition (hits LHPs better, doesn't carry the highest OBP), he would be a very nice stopgap at 3B, and is definitely one of my favorite options that should be available that I hope the Brewers target.

[logan82]

I doubt we can get much better than Cameron in CF. He was 7th best in OPS for center fielders.

 

I don't necessarily agree that hitting lead-off is messing with Weeks, but I wouldn't be to upset seeing him somewhere in the 3rd-5th spots.

 

"Prototypical lead-off hitter" I see that thrown around all the time. Whenever it gets talked about we always see a bunch of slap hitters brought up. Some fictional high OBP guy with speed. To heck with a prototypical lead-off hitter. Just get the best player that we can for each position and worry about the rest later.

[BrewCrewForever]

"Prototypical lead-off hitter" I see that thrown around all the time. Whenever it gets talked about we always see a bunch of slap hitters brought up. Some fictional high OBP guy with speed. To heck with a prototypical lead-off hitter. Just get the best player that we can for each position and worry about the rest later.

 

That is why I really want to trade for David DeJesus. He is a perfect leadoff guy and just a slap hitter ala Juan Pierre. His numbers last year .307/.366/.452 with 12 HR and 73 RBI. I would love him in CF and batting 1st.

 

I also am with colbyjack on exploring Beltre as a stop gap for Gamel at 3B. Otherwise if Texas does not pick up his option or decides to trade Hank Blalock as an option at 3B.

[yount19.u]

Here's what I would like to see next season:

1. Fire Skaalen. The plate discipline has steadily gotten worse and some of the blame belongs with the hitting coach. I know it's up to the player to perform, but a young team needs good coaching to help them adjust as the season goes on, and the hitters did not.

2. Trade Weeks. If they could get a bullpen arm or even Roberts for Weeks +, I am all for it. He still may turn out to be a great hitter, but it's too much of a gamble to wait and see. He may not have any value if they wait another season, and sick of waiting until September every year for Weeks to finally "come around."

3. If they can't get Roberts, make a run at Mark Ellis at 2B.

4. Move Hardy to 3rd, bring up Escobar to play short and let Hall be a super-sub again while playing mostly at short. Hall has zero value right now and will likely improve slightly next season, allowing the team to trade him come July.

5. Trade Fielder for Mat Cain +. Cain could be our future #2 and Fielder's weight and poor defensive play are worrying me. His trade value may never be higher than this off season. If Nelson or Gamel can't play 1st, look for a mid level free agent to fill the gap until someone in the farm system can step in.

6. Have Kapler and Gwynn split time in center and use the farm system for the #5 outfielder. Cameron did a good job this year, but he's another free swinger and this team has enough of those. I'm also convinced Gwynn could become a great defensive center fielder and maybe be average to slightly below average offensively. The money from Cameron could also be used to sign some bullpen help or maybe put towards a 2 year signing of Lowe.

****

The defense would be greatly improved and the speed would stay the same. OBP would be improved and I think they score about the same amount of runs, maybe even more, despite giving up some power as a result. With Yo, Cain, Lowe, Parra, Soup/Bush, the starting pitching would not be too far off what it is now as long as the young guys continue to improve.

[jhart05]

If TGJ sees any significant playing time on this team next year, they are in a world of trouble.

[logan82]

If TGJ sees any significant playing time on this team next year, they are in a world of trouble.

I think they would call it a "rebuilding year." At least I hope they wouldn't consider any year where TGJ starts in CF(without a significant injury) anything other than rebuilding.

[RobertR]

Yeah, Gwynn was basically Counsell/Kendall at AAA. No idea how that's supposed to help the Brewers offense. He doesn't even have the excuse that he's young for a prospect going for him. You might be better off replacing Weeks with Luis Castillo, at least that could be a defensive upgrade.

 

I was under the impression that Cano, like Weeks, wasn't the greatest 2B defensively. That is an interesting change of scenery swap though.

 

Checking this year's stats, that looks to be a fair statement, although Cano does appear to do better with the DP.

 

Robert