Ben Sheets Appreciation Thread

[bklynbrewcrew]

I think the hate for Sheets on this site is completely uncalled for. He has been a great Brewer that has given his heart and soul to this team. Personally I hope he somehow comes back but if he doesnt I wish him well as long as he doesnt sign with the yankees, cubs, or mets. Thank you Ben Sheets for everything you have meant to the team these last 6 yrs and I hope you are here for 6 more.

[sbrylski]

On TV, I thought he was cheered. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought happened from Brewers fans.

 

My comments were directed specifically at the poster I quoted.

[hauser42]

I think the hate for Sheets on this site is completely uncalled for. He has been a great Brewer that has given his heart and soul to this team. Personally I hope he somehow comes back but if he doesnt I wish him well as long as he doesnt sign with the yankees, cubs, or mets. Thank you Ben Sheets for everything you have meant to the team these last 6 yrs and I hope you are here for 6 more.

Well if he wasn't stealing money from the team it would be another story. Yes he had a couple of season that he should have had more wins when the team was not as good. Now there is a team around him and he is still can not get the job done. Today he could have came out gutted out 6 solid innings and pushed this team to the playoffs, but once again the early runs come off him and the team is in a whole. Brittle Ben is proving that he is not the big time pitcher that some think he is. Besides his physical breakdowns, IMO he still lacks the killer instincts when he gets on the mound. Shortly after CC got he stepped it up for a couple of starts but that faded away.

[dlk9s]

Just got back from the game (yes, left after 6th and damn glad I did).

You're awesome. I bet you left because the team "has no heart."

 

Was very good to see Sheets get booed when he left the game.

 

This is sad and anyone who did this is a terrible fan.

 

A frequently injured .500 pitcher who never came up big when it mattered.

 

Frequently injured, yes. But please explain how he could be much more than a .500 pitcher, given the terrible Brewers teams he's been on? You probably think Matt Cain is a bad pitcher, too. As for coming up big when it mattered, I don't think he has ever pitched in a game that really mattered before these last couple (except for the gold medal game in the Olympics), and he was obviously hurt.

 

So, let's all hate Ben Sheets because he got hurt. You know, because he wanted to.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I don't hate Ben Sheets. I've defended him for years. But I will tell you one thing: I won't miss him being gone. He's a great pitcher but the fact of the matter is when a big time outing is needed, he's never there because he's not durable enough to be an elite pitcher. He's just not reliable. Good luck in Houston, Sheets. Thanks for your time in Milwaukee, but it's time to move on.

[BrewCrewForever]

I don't hate Ben Sheets. I've defended him for years. But I will tell you one thing: I won't miss him being gone. He's a great pitcher but the fact of the matter is when a big time outing is needed, he's never there because he's not durable enough to be an elite pitcher. He's just not reliable. Good luck in Houston, Sheets. Thanks for your time in Milwaukee, but it's time to move on.

I couldn't have said it better myself. I like Sheets, think he is a very good pitcher. Maybe a great pitcher. But bottomline he has not had a healthy season since 2004 and it is just better if him and the Brewers part ways. So long Ben, thanks for the memories.

[holybannana]

Dang it Ben, old buddy, you failed us when we needed you most. Again. Sad to see you go and will remember when you were the only good thing about this club. But you really screwed the pooch in your last game and shouldn't have been out there. You didn't give us the best chance to win. You won't be there in the playoffs if we make it. You failed us last year and your going down could have been the straw the broke this teams back.

 

I also blame Ned Yost for abusing you. You lead the league in pitcher abuse points all year and it shows. You're a fragile guy and Ned didn't treat you like one. And now we pay for his poor managing.

 

I hope you have a great future but I won't miss your inconsistency. You've always been a gamer and a good teammate though.

[piccione88]

Ben really has not had that many huge games to pitch, so to draw an opinion of him from just a handful of bad games is a little bit unfair. Regardless he still had a great year, with an ERA right around three, and almost 200 innings. Ben probably could have logged a few more innings, but then again the brewers could have abused him less from 02-04. I will miss ben, he had great stuff, and is really a great guy.

[saget]

I love Ben Sheets and always will. It's too bad the casuals never fully appreciated him.

 

On a side, was it smart for Sheeter to say after the game that his arm is "broke"?

 

Hank Steinbrenner may lift an eyebrow to that and next thing you know Ben is down $500k on his Yankee contract.

[JimH5]

I've ripped Sheets in the past, and will not shed many tears if he's on another team next year. But I give him a pass on this game. They're sputtering on fumes, trying anything and everything to get that Wild Card, and he took the ball today and did the best that he could with a bad arm.

 

He wasn't thinking about his next contract. He could have worsened his injury. He gave it a go and came up short. Much like Tom Glavine on last year's Mets team, when he got rocked in the finale, Sheets just didn't have it.

 

I'll give a guy a break if he tries for the Kirk Gibson/Willis Reed moment, even if he fails.

[silversurferr]

Sheets is one of the best pitchers, over a career with the team, that the Brewers have had. It took guts to start the game, and it took class not to lash out at morons that booed him. Obviously, I am a Sheets fan. Still, I will be glad to see him go....I just hope it is out of the division.

[jeffy]

Was there really booing? Watching on TV, I thought he got a small ovation when leaving...at least from the fans that could be seen near the dugout.

Booing a guy who gave a it a shot while hurt is pretty pathetic. We have all been disappointed by his injury history, but it's not like he wants to be injured. Clearly he is a guy who wants to pitch, when he is healthy he never wants to come out of the game.

Does Sheets get booed next year, if he pitches in Miller Park for another team?

[holybannana]

I'm just happy I got to see him toss a complete game shutout out against the Jake Peavy and the Padres in what was probably his last really good game as a Brewer. IT was one of the best baseball games I've ever seen (Brewers won 1-0) and Ben was electric that night.

[recte44]

Am I the only one who feels that if Dave Bush would have started that game yesterday our magic number would be 1 right now?

 

Ben, you had all the talent in the world, but you lack the dedication to health and conditioning that you needed. Good luck in Houston (or Atlanta).

[jackalope02ca]

Good luck to Ben, one of the Brewers all time greatest players. I can't see him coming back next year. It's going to be weird watching a Brewers team without Ben on it. Hopefully his arm is ok for the long run.

[RockCoCougars]

Not so sure why everyone here is always so concerned whether a player gets booed or cheered....but I'm sure it was a lot of the Cub fans that were booing Sheets.

 

Anyway, what team in their right mind would give Sheets a big money contract? My guess is that he goes to a big market team for a one year $15 million or so deal. I'm kind of fearing that he may come back to the Brewers on a three year deal when he finds there are really no takers in the open market for a multi year deal. "Hometown discount" for a player coming of an injury a la Cal Eldred, and we all know how that one turned out. The thing is that from reading Sheets' quotes from yesterday, it's pretty obvious that he doesn't want to come back.

[Ennder]

The nature of Sheets injury does not make him nearly as big a risk as a Harden, Prior, Schmidt type of player. I think the anti-sheets crowd really overestimates how worrisome his injury history is. Assuming the arm pain is just normal overused pitcher type pain and nothing serious I'd assume he gets something like a 3-4 year deal for good money. He has had one major injury in his career and it isnt' in an area that is expected to have a lot of repeat injuries.

 

In 2005 he missed one month to the shoulder injury and some time to the ear thing which I find it unlikely anyone is worried about.

In 2006 the brought him back early from the injury and he aggravated it, something completely normal for a pitcher coming off an injury. He was healthy the last 2.5 months of the season and put up a 3.15 ERA and .678 OPS against.

In 2007 he had minor blister/groin problems that limited him, again not the kind of injuries that really worry teams long term. He went into his last healthy start with a 3.36 ERA and .686 OPS against.

In 2008 he was healthy until the last month of the season and who knows how serious that is. He was heavily abused by Yost and still managed a 3.09 ERA and .674 OPS against.

 

Yeah the injuries will limit his contract some but there is no way in heck he is going with a 1 year deal. That is not a serious injury list for a pitcher at all.

[TSack27]

Am I the only one who feels that if Dave Bush would have started that game yesterday our magic number would be 1 right now?

 

Brewers would have probably still been no-hit by Lilly at the time Bush came out and turned it over to the bullpen, so I'm not sure it would have assured a victory.

 

I still don't understand going to Bush after Sheets left down 4-0 (sure they got it to 4-3, but haven't seen much from the offense to give me confidence that they would mount a realistic comeback), wouldn't it have been better to save a fully rested Bush for a possible game on Monday and used Villanueva or DeFelice in long relief yesterday?

[lukevan]

I want to hear the Sheets haters next year when we have Jeff Suppan pitching instead of Benny. I want to hear the complaints about our starting pitching not being good enough. I can't wait.

 

If Benny sits out yesterday's game, he's a wimp. As it was, he starts with a worn out arm and got rocked and now he just plain sucks. The guy can't win with fans and I think it's truly pathetic. I'm not saying we should give him $15 mil x 4 years. I just know our pitching staff in 2009 would be better with him than without him.

[stoutdude04]

If Benny sits out yesterday's game, he's a wimp. As it was, he starts with a worn out arm and got rocked and now he just plain sucks. The guy can't win with fans and I think it's truly pathetic. I'm not saying we should give him $15 mil x 4 years. I just know our pitching staff in 2009 would be better with him than without him.

This is exactly how I feel. Everyone looks at it differently after the fact. I wanted to see Bush start, but I cant say I was dissapointed or surprised by how Sheets pitched. He was still throwing 92, it appeared that he was over-throwing though, which left him with bad command. I will be dissapointed when we dont have him next year. He is still a great pitcher, just tough to love.

[TheCrew07]

"sheets hater(s)".. that's just lame.

 

One poster was over the top but most people have been realistic about what he's done. This isn't the Sheets of 2004, he's not dependable anymore, that's the plain truth. It's a different minor injury every time, but he's injured/ineffective none the less. His abscence contributed to all 3 collaspes under Yost. If anything that doesn't prove how valuable Ben is/was to the Brewers, it proves how valuable having quality depth is, as opposed to relying on 1 guy to be the "man".

 

Ben is a very good pitcher, but aquiring Sabathia and being able to observe them side by side should have made the gulf that separates the 2 men very obvious. If we make the playoffs and it was a game 5 or 7, I wouldn't want Sheets on the mound. I'd more comfortable with Sabathia, Gallardo, or Bush. I feel much the same way about Parra, while he's talented and I want him in the rotation, I just don't trust him, and maybe I never will. Winning isn't just about talent, I know it's unpopular in baseball circles to discuss the intangibles, but they matter to me, I believe they matter in the grand scheme, and again Sheets and Parra just don't strike me as fighters. If I'm going to lose, I'm going to go down swinging. That's why I'm more comfortable with Bush, because even though he's not the most the talented guy, he's going to lay it all out there and get after people.

 

Pointing out Sheets' Gold Medal game to me is like pointing to his 2004 stats... things change, I'm taking nothing away from him, he's just not the same pitcher any more.

[bjkrautk]

I'd love to see how Sheets would perform if his manager limited him to 100 pitches/ start.

 

It seems that all of his injury problems coincided with Ned Yost allowing him to throw 110-120 pitches into games. I think that you have to be more careful with Sheeter to get the most out of him.

[lukevan]

Thing is he doesn't have to be Sabathia to be valuable. The point is trying to put the best staff together possible. Sheets is better than 70% of pitchers in MLB. I'll take the guy on my team.

 

he's going to lay it all out there and get after people.

 

How does Sheets not do this?

[Roscoe Chill]

The nature of Sheets injury does not make him nearly as big a risk as a Harden, Prior, Schmidt type of player. I think the anti-sheets crowd really overestimates how worrisome his injury history is. Assuming the arm pain is just normal overused pitcher type pain and nothing serious I'd assume he gets something like a 3-4 year deal for good money. He has had one major injury in his career and it isnt' in an area that is expected to have a lot of repeat injuries.

In 2005 he missed one month to the shoulder injury and some time to the ear thing which I find it unlikely anyone is worried about.
In 2006 the brought him back early from the injury and he aggravated it, something completely normal for a pitcher coming off an injury. He was healthy the last 2.5 months of the season and put up a 3.15 ERA and .678 OPS against.
In 2007 he had minor blister/groin problems that limited him, again not the kind of injuries that really worry teams long term. He went into his last healthy start with a 3.36 ERA and .686 OPS against.
In 2008 he was healthy until the last month of the season and who knows how serious that is. He was heavily abused by Yost and still managed a 3.09 ERA and .674 OPS against.

 

Yes, yes, we know, we know. But we keep having this debate over and over and over again. And guess what that means? It means he's not available to pitch too often.

 

I don't hate Ben Sheets. He's a very good pitcher when available. But they're now in their second straight stretch run for a playoff spot and guess what? No Sheets. Again, it's not a knock on what type of person he is, but enough is enough. He's fragile, whether or not the "nature of the injury" isn't serious. It's serious enough for him to be unavailable. He's done with Milwaukee, and we as fans should move on, not keep making excuses for why he's not out there when they need him most. And again, this doesn't mean he's a bad guy, and deserves to be booed. But we also shouldn't make him out to be some kind of sad story and ignore the fact that Ben has become a very wealthy man with the Brewers. 2004 was a long time ago guys.

[Ennder]

I don't have a problem with people not wanting to re-sign Sheets. It is the suggestion that he is going to be getting a 1 year contract that bothered me.

 

My guess is that he goes to a big market team for a one year $15 million or so deal

 

Given his injury history there is basically no way this happens was my point.