Who replaces Doug Melvin in 2009?

[bklynbrewcrew]

I dont know if Mark A was behind the Gagne signing but I definitely think he was 100% behind the signing of Suppan. He actively recruited Suppan and I fully blame him for that signing. He fell in love with Suppans pitching in the playoffs that year and decided he had to have that "big game pitcher". We still have Suppan and are stuck with him at 25 mil for the next two years. So as much as gagne is a bust Suppan is far worse because we signed him for 4 yrs when he is a below average starter.

[JJHardy7]

I dont know if Mark A was behind the Gagne signing but I definitely think he was 100% behind the signing of Suppan. He actively recruited Suppan and I fully blame him for that signing. He fell in love with Suppans pitching in the playoffs that year and decided he had to have that "big game pitcher". We still have Suppan and are stuck with him at 25 mil for the next two years. So as much as gagne is a bust Suppan is far worse because we signed him for 4 yrs when he is a below average starter.

 

I don't think Mark A is as worried about Suppan. He's pretty much had his career norms here in Milwaukee. The other players listed above are well below their career norms or were stretches at this point in their career. Suppan can at least be somewhat useful. Was he overpaid? Probably, but pitching costs money. I'm not really disappointed in Suppan's contract now as much as I was when I heard it. He is what I thought he was. Expecting more would be somewhat foolish or not realistic.

 

I still think with a rotation of some young guys next year Suppan could be a nice piece to have since he will put the innings in and save the pen. I'm not saying Suppan is an all-star or anything like that, but with Yo barely pitching this year we can't expect a ton of innings from him and with Parra hitting the wall it will be interesting to see how these young guys perform. If CV is a starter, he's in the same boat. I think you need some veterans from some stability and that's where I think Suppan fits in.

 

Suppan was also signed as a 'playoff' pitcher and he really can't do that if we're not in the playoffs. Pitching isn't cheap unless you want to trade a guy like Fielder or draft starting pitchers that make it year in and year out.

[BrewCrewForever]

I guess Melvin has probably made more good moves then blunders. I suppose at least one more year would be fine. Maybe he can assemble a good pen next year. And although we will lose CC and Ben, I feel if we can aquire a good #2 type starter to go with Yo (who might be better then Sheets anyway), Parra, Bush and Suppan we could be fine for starting pitching. On offense figure out 3B and get a REAL leadoff hitter to play somewhere.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Teams with limited payrolls cannot afford to pay the likes of Suppan 4/42. Throw in the fact that the contract is backloaded and you have an absolute albatross. As far as Suppan being a big game pitcher how well did he do in Philly. A rotation of gallardo,Parra, Bush, Suppan, and Villy or McClung is just not gonna get the job done.

[Ennder]

But again our bullpen has not been bad.

 

Here are our NL ranks.

 

6th in Sv%, 5th in OPS against, 4th in ERA, 2nd in saves, 6th in WPA.

 

We have an above average bullpen this year for all the complaints so if you want Melvin fired because the bullpen sucks at least look at how the bullpen has actually done first. It is one of the 6 best bullpens in the NL this year, if that sucks then I guess he should be fired.

 

Suppan has been a league average starter which means roughly $8-$10M per year, yeah it was a bit too much but not nearly enough to fire someone over. Gagne was a 1 year deal so low risk overall. Hall ended up being a bad signing but most fans on this site thought it was a good one(I wasn't one of them though). Counsell earned his money easily last year with the defense, this year not quite as much. Turnbow was a real disaster, cannot defend that one at all. Capuano and riske were fine contracts, they just got hurt. Silly to complain about injured players since it happens to every team.

[And That]

Aside from Gagne's suckitude, Riske's unhealthy go of a season and about a dozen of Mota's appearances (anyone else notice his ERA is under 4.00 now?), the bullpen has been wonderful.

 

That said, say you convinced your boss that you needed this really expensive piece of equipment in order to function properly as a business. It might take up 1/8 of the company's entire budget, but this equipment used to be top of the line, industry benchmark. Then it broke. However, you have heard a repairman fixed it, and it's gonna work just fine now. It worked pretty well for the last business that owned it. Your boss gives you the ok.

 

Is your boss gonna be happy with the machine breaks down on you for a chunk of the year and doesn't do well when it's working properly?

 

Attanasio can't be happy about spending all that cash on Gagne.

[Postseason2006]

Problem with the bullpen is that they should be better than what they are for as little as they had pitched. That is a major disappointment.

[sweepscc]

I'm no stat guru but bullpen era doesn't seem to tell the story well. Our reliever WHIP is 10th in the National League and we're 4th in blown saves in the NL according to ESPN's Stats.

[Ennder]

I'm no stat guru but bullpen era doesn't seem to tell the story well. Our reliever WHIP is 10th in the National League and we're 4th in blown saves in the NL according to ESPN's Stats.

Then again we are 6th in Sv% and 5th in OPS against. Both of those stats are more important than WHIP and blown saves imo. This is not a bad bullpen overall this year.

[PeaveyFury]

He's has failed to assemble an above average pen, but has gotten zero help in the form of relief prospects (which is on Zack).

 

I think this is an important point that shouldn't be skipped over. For all the rightful praise that Jack gets here on the site, can the fact that he's really only had one Brewer arm that he's drafted stick in the Majors to this point (Gallardo) be completely overlooked?

[logan82]

I think Melvin has done well bringing in pitchers in trades. Capuano, Bush, Villanueva etc. Nothing special, but decent major leaguers.

[And That]

I think this is an important point that shouldn't be skipped over. For all the rightful praise that Jack gets here on the site, can the fact that he's really only had one Brewer arm that he's drafted stick in the Majors to this point (Gallardo) be completely overlooked?

Gallardo and Parra are top flight arms. LaPorta basically got us Sabathia. Jeffress is gonna be a good one if he stays healthy and clean. I'm very high on Anundsen and Periard, but of course you can't really count those guys in the win column yet. Has he been excellent at drafting pitching? No, but Gallardo, Parra and Jeffress are pretty good in 9 years given all the offense we've drafted.

 

If Melvin were canned, I would be livid if they didn't give the job to Jack.

[TheCrew07]

He's has failed to assemble an above average pen, but has gotten zero help in the form of relief prospects (which is on Zack).

 

I think this is an important point that shouldn't be skipped over. For all the rightful praise that Jack gets here on the site, can the fact that he's really only had one Brewer arm that he's drafted stick in the Majors to this point (Gallardo) be completely overlooked?

Nope, which is why I repeatedly beat on that point, the system did not produce enough pitching for the 2007/2008 window. Which is again one of the many reasons I'm excited about 2010, the 2nd wave should be experienced enough to give the club a significant boost. This is also why I'm in favor of flipping bats, because the scouting department has done very well in that regard giving us a surplus. Deal from a position of strength to plug weaknesses...

[DHonks]

AJAY, I feel that Counsell has been far from deadweight. At the time I preferred Loretta, but Counsell has done fine for us in his role. As for Capuano, I don't think we can really blame his salary on Melvin. But with Hall, Weeks, Gagne, Riske, Tbow, and Suppan, I think we all could have seen those deals as VERY risky.

[logan82]

Why is Weeks included in the salary complaints? He is making $1.057M which is the very least they could pay him this year. He hasn't even hit arbitration yet. There is no way we could get similar output for that money. If we are going to complain about 2B contracts, Durham would be the one to complain about. He is making $7.5M this year(of wich I would guess we owe just under half) for similar production to Weeks. I wouldn't complain about any contract outside of Suppan's and maybe Hall's. Other than that all are off the books and won't hurt us after this year.

[kramnoj]

That said, say you convinced your boss that you needed this really expensive piece of equipment in order to function properly as a business. It might take up 1/8 of the company's entire budget, but this equipment used to be top of the line, industry benchmark. Then it broke.

 

This really isn't a good analogy. Gagne wasn't essential to the proper functioning of the business. He was a piece designed to make up for a glaring weakness the business had last year and the company wasn't sure they had done a good job of fixing that weakness for the upcoming year. Gagne had great success in the past, had recent troubles, so he was a risk this year, but because of his history, he would be expensive to acquire.

 

He was like a salesperson. The business was expected to function well, but it wasn't hitting the goals the team had. In order to move forward, the team decided to take a huge gamble by giving this guy a huge bonus in the hopes that he would find the success he had in the past and to move the team toward its goal this year.

 

Once the salesperson is hired, he is under the control of the sales manager. The sales manager decides which accounts the salesperson goes to. If the salesperson keeps blowing the leads the manager gives him, it is the responsibility of the manager to determine why the failures are occuring and how to deploy his talent. Once it becomes clear that this salesperson doesn't have the skill he used to have, its the manager's decision how to best use the sales staff he has down in the bullpen. If the expensive salesperson doesn't have the ability to close a deal with good rates anymore, the manager should be using other salespeople and decide if the expensive salesperson needs some retraining, needs to be sat, or maybe he just needs to be cut.

 

Attanasio has an investor mentality. He knew that Gagne was a huge, expensive risk. The team going into this year didn't think it would have any other glaring weakness, and they took a shot at the bullpen, which was an obvious failure last year. The team had $10 million to spend for this season, didn't really have any other holes this year, and it was a commitment for only one season. Attanasio said in the Sveum press conference that he has veto power. If he wasn't comfortable with this risk, he could have stopped it.

 

I don't think Attanasio would fire Melvin for decisions that they both agreed to. If Jack Z is offered a GM position elsewhere, he may decide to fire Melvin and promote Z if he thinks Jack has more future value to the team than Melvin does.

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't think Attanasio would fire Melvin for decisions that they both agreed to. If Jack Z is offered a GM position elsewhere, he may decide to fire Melvin and promote Z if he thinks Jack has more future value to the team than Melvin does.

 

I think this is an important distinction.

 

When Yost was fired, words like boob, incompetent, semi-lucid, insane, inept, etc. were used --- I think we can all agree that DM performed (at his job) at a higher level than Yost did -- that is to say DM is not an inept boob, or even close to it.

 

However, the Brewers are have made a transition from what they were in 2002 to what they are today, and perhaps a different GM may be better equipped to take the Crew from 80 to 95 wins than DM who took the Brewers from 60 to 85 wins. DM has had enough time and resources to get the Brewers into the playoffs -- I am not saying he did a bad job at all, just that he has had his cuts at the plate.

 

2009 will undoubtedly be a transition year for the Brewers, there will be a new rotation, new manager, and probably a number of our position players will be moved. I'd rather see a fresh perspective with a different attitude. I think it is pointless for DM to hire a manager and then get canned in 2009 himself. It just makes sense to me to clean house in 2009 and shuffle the cards a little bit.

 

If MA thinks JZ could do a better job with the Brewers in 2009, I think it's a great time to make the transition.

[Ennder]

Why is Weeks included in the salary complaints? He is making $1.057M which is the very least they could pay him this year. He hasn't even hit arbitration yet. There is no way we could get similar output for that money. If we are going to complain about 2B contracts, Durham would be the one to complain about. He is making $7.5M this year(of wich I would guess we owe just under half) for similar production to Weeks. I wouldn't complain about any contract outside of Suppan's and maybe Hall's. Other than that all are off the books and won't hurt us after this year.

I dunno, why are they including Riske who pitched fine and then got hurt and struggled after the injury. People are just flipping out because of the collapse. There is no way they fire Melvin after the team wins 88 games or whatever we win.

[Hammer]

I personally think that Melvin's possible downfall could be that there is way too much wasted money on this payroll. The Brewers aren't getting much bang for their buck from Suppan, Counsell, Gagne, Capuano, Turnbow, Riske, Hall, Weeks, etc. I know a lot of this is hindsight, but it still makes a GM look bad in the end. I think we all expected more from Hall and Riske, so I can't blame Melvin for those contracts. But the rest of the failures were definitely predictable.

 

I have NO idea why we signed Counsell for two years when he seemed terrible the last time he was a Brewer. There are plenty of guys on the scrap heap who you can pick up and can put up similar or better numbers for a bargain basement price. I just think Melvin needs to stop jumping into multi-year deals when there is no reason or track record to justify it.

 

Anyway, despite my criticisms, I think Melvin will get one more year. I just hope he starts to appreciate the value of having more professional hitters who can execute and play the game right.

AJAY put all of my words down already...other than the fact that the one MAJOR thing that Melvin has forgotten to do over his tenure was sign/trade for a good lead offhitter. I could almost care less about the slugging portion of the leadoff mans stats (not 100% care less...but close) as long as he is getting on at a .360+ clip and can run the bases without a cheat sheet. I'll get crucified by the stat guys for that but not all 8 starters need to hit 20+ homers in my book...

[kramnoj]

I could almost care less about the slugging portion of the leadoff mans stats (not 100% care less...but close) as long as he is getting on at a .360+ clip and can run the bases without a cheat sheet.

 

Weeks fit that description going into this season. Cameron isn't too far from that description, if you take into account the pitcher's parks that he has played in that has suppressed his actual OBP (as compared to his relative OBP, which has been above average for his career).

 

I feel that leadoff hitter is glamourized. A team just needs good players. Teams win WS without a prototypical leadoff hitter.

[jeffy]

He's has failed to assemble an above average pen, but has gotten zero help in the form of relief prospects (which is on Zack).

 

I think this is an important point that shouldn't be skipped over. For all the rightful praise that Jack gets here on the site, can the fact that he's really only had one Brewer arm that he's drafted stick in the Majors to this point (Gallardo) be completely overlooked?

Is it not also on him that all the draft picks seem to be guys with a mentality of "swing hard at every pitch, you just might hit a home run" and "fielding http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif...huh, what's that?..."?

 

Can we get a GM who will hire a manager that does not believe that the only "rules" of modern baseball that must never be broken are those related to the use of the closer? Yeah, I didn't think so.

[JJHardy7]

Turnbow was a real disaster, cannot defend that one at all.

 

I don't think it was a bad deal when it happened and if IIRC it was low risk. I think Turnbow made around $3 million this year. It didn't work out, but who would have known Turnbow wouldn't be able to throw strikes. I know he had control issues, but this year it was beyond control issues. He started in Nashville because they wanted 8 innings to be able to comeback in a game. I was at the game where he walked like 5 or 6 guys in an inning and gave up a hit or two. It was beyond control issues and a mental thing.

[Ennder]

Melvin has made two bad moves this season.

 

1) The Gagne signing. I can live with it since it is only 1 year so the overall risk was pretty low but there was no way he could have earned how much they payed him even if he didn't totally explode in the first half.

 

2) Trading Gabe Gross. We really could have used his bat off the bench this year.

 

Melvin made a number of good moves this season.

 

1) Kendall has certainly earned his contract though I admit I'm completely surprised by it~.

2) Cameron was one of the best signings by any team in the offseason. He has been the 2nd most valuable Brewer positional player this year.

3) Riske deal. Yeah it hasn't worked out because of the injury but it was still a good deal.

4) Trading for Mota. I'm one of the few people that liked this to begin the season because Mota's ERA didn't match his peripherals. Yeah he isn't amazing but he is certainly adequate and it got Estrada off the team.

5) Trading for CC. Like or dislike it long term it certainly was a great deal for this year which put us in a position to make the playoffs if we hadn't choked for 2 weeks to start September.

 

 

He has had a lot more plusses than minuses for me this year. Plus he fired Yost who probably cost us the playoffs for the 2nd consecutive year with his boobery.

 

 

I also don't think we make sweeping changes next season. Offensively we pick up Cameron's option, move Hall to the utility infielder, let Counsell go. Then sign some 3B and maybe a left handed bench OF. Pitching wise we re-sign Sheets or pick up some mid tier SP to fill his slot, Gallardo takes Sabathias slot, we pick up a RP or two.

 

I doubt we see much more than that happen in the off season.

[JohnBriggs12]

"Kendall has certainly earned his contract".

 

A .652 OPS and 46 RBI is earning your contract? He's barely adequate bordering on awful. You have to be kidding on this one. Miller in a wheelchair might have given them more than Kendall has.

 

Cameron?

 

130 K's in 408 AB'S? That figures out to over 190 in 600 AB's. How about that robust .127 BA as the team has tanked in Sept. Not even acceptable for half his contract much less valuable.

[Ennder]

"Kendall has certainly earned his contract".

 

A .652 OPS and 46 RBI is earning your contract? He's barely adequate bordering on awful. You have to be kidding on this one. Miller in a wheelchair might have given them more than Kendall has.

 

Cameron?

 

130 K's in 408 AB'S? That figures out to over 190 in 600 AB's. How about that robust .127 BA as the team has tanked in Sept. Not even acceptable for half his contract much less valuable.

 

Kendall has arguably been the best defensive C in baseball this year. He has most certainly been an above average C this season.

You are going to judge Cameron on strike outs and nothing else? Really? I'm not even going to offer a reply to that.