Replacing Weeks with Durham-why?

[JohnBriggs12]

I'd look for Weeks to CF idea to be revived this offseason.

That isn't a bad idea. I was thinking the other day that we could really beef up Weeks' value if he learned how to play CF, and still continue to start some games at 2B as well. Kind of like a Mark DeRosa type player. Get a few starts at 2B each week, and a couple in CF as well.

 

He's been used really well since Durham came aboard (not facing tough RH'ers), and if he could play multiple positions the team could realistically semi-platoon him like this.

 

That's not really what I had in mind GI. Finding a spot for Escobar next season will involve movement of players either to other positions or via trade. Assuming no trades, and no Cameron, CF is open. Moving Weeks there would be to get him in the lineup batting leadoff where he's been ok since midseason. He's not Mark De Rosa. He has trouble playing one position at a time. You wouldn't want him switching back and forth. 2B would either be manned by Hardy, or Hardy could go to 3B with 2B being manned by Hall in a platoon with someone, perhaps Durham if they brought him back.

[SDOwen28]

Why would you not replace Weeks with Durham??? I was one of the ones that thought Rickie Weeks was going to have a big year but I am sorry to say....Rickie Weeks is one of the worst, if not the worst, everyday baseball player. The amount of errors he has this year (I think it is 11-13) doesnt do justice to how bad he really is in the field, all of the favorable scoring and how a bad thrown on a double play doesnt count as an error. Then throw on top of that, he is hitting 220-230 with a ton of strikeouts. I am tired of hearing when he gets on base, he normally scores. Well if you get a guy that gets on base more than Weeks, he will score just as much as Weeks did this year. I would like to hear some names of players that are worse, that play pretty much every day. If you werent a fan of the Milwaukee Brewers and saw him play, there is no way you wouldnt think that. But us as fans, we hear about this so called potential. Weeks has to go

[Diskono]

SDOwen28 wrote:

 

I would like to hear some names of players that are worse, that play pretty much every day. If you werent a fan of the Milwaukee Brewers and saw him play, there is no way you wouldnt think that. But us as fans, we hear about this so called potential. Weeks has to go

Every team has somebody worse than Weeks that is playing every day. In the AL East alone, I found 2 on each team:

 

Carl Crawford

Jason Bartlett

Julio Lugo

Jacoby Ellsbury

Robinson Cano

Melky Cabrera

David Eckstein

Aaron Hill

Kevin Millar

Adam Jones

 

and thats ignoring catchers. On the Brewers, we should be more worried about Craig Counsell playing every day.

[SDOwen28]

I would take everyone over Weeks, are you kidding. If the guys cant hit, they can at least play defense. You can also name catchers all you want, but that is a different postion....all the catchers besides a few suck

[kramnoj]

According to Chris Dial's NL Offense Plus Defense rating as seens here: http://spreadsheets.googl...y=p9BODtOllD4sXsmwK_rgHQA Weeks has been the 10th best NL 2B through September 2nd. Among all players who have played at 2B in the NL, he has provided about 2.4 Runs Above Average. So he's below the average of starters in the NL, but has provided positive value compared to players at the position. For reference, Durham's combined value is 1.2, so just a one run difference.

 

Obviously we shouldn't take this rating as gospel, but I think it's useful to look at some data that tries to give an objective value. It's impossible for any one person to watch Week's games and be able to objectively evaluate him compared to all players at his position, or even in one league.

 

For players that are truly bad at 2B in the NL, take a look at that list. There are 5 players at 2B in the NL that are so bad they are costing their team a win or two: Felipe Lopez, Velez with the Giants, Iguchi, Easley, Freddy Sanchez.

[Ennder]

I would take everyone over Weeks, are you kidding. If the guys cant hit, they can at least play defense. You can also name catchers all you want, but that is a different postion....all the catchers besides a few suck

 

I think Durham is a downgrade from Weeks defensively. The guy can't move at all out there.

[SDOwen28]

Rickie Weeks can move but he never does. He does the "Roger Dorn"...never gets in front of the ball.

 

Also, to the previous post....Durham posted less runs do to the bad team he was on prior to the Brewers

[kramnoj]

Rickie Weeks can move but he never does. He does the "Roger Dorn"...never gets in front of the ball.

 

Also, to the previous post....Durham posted less runs do to the bad team he was on prior to the Brewers

The stat is intended to be free of team bias. The reason that Durham has less value than Weeks is because Durham has the 3rd most negative defensive value among NL 2b.

[1992casey]

Diskono, which stat did you use to rank those players?

 

SDOwen28, please try to avoid statements like "are you kidding." They get into the area of attacking the messenger rather than addressing the message. Thanks.

[rluzinski]

I may have missed it but has anyone even mentioned runs scored in trying to defend Weeks here?

 

If you think BA and strikeouts are all you need to know to determine that Weeks is a bad hitter, we aren't going to see eye to eye. You can capture better than 95% of a batter's value using the stick knowing two things:

 

1. What percentage of a batter's PAs result in an out.

 

2. What kind of power does he have( singles, doubles, HRs).

 

You are going to say that's crazy, ethere's your explanation for why some can disagree with you.

 

Based on Weeks' career so far, he easily projects as an above average 2B, offensively. The problem is that he can't field well enough there to justify even comparing him to them, offensively.

[Ennder]

Lets look closer at those numbers for the Brewers.

 

Fielder - -1.00. His defense has actually offset the offense.

Weeks - 2.40. His defense has actually been above average this season according to those stats.

Durham - 0.20

Branyan - 11.10. His injury really hurt us a lot no matter what people think of him.

Hall - -6.90. One of the worst players in all of baseball this year though his defense has been decent.

Kendall - 7.10.

Cameron - 17.70.

Kapler - 6.10. Pretty amazing for a part time role.

Braun - 19.00. Above average defense too!

Hardy 6.10. Surprisingly this site has him as one of the worst defensive SS in baseball, not sure how I feel about it.

Counsell -2.50. His defense hasn't been nearly as good as last year.

Hart - 0.30. Below average defense in RF and I completely agree. He should swap with Braun who is a better fielder already.

[Ennder]

Lets look closer at those numbers for the Brewers.

 

http://spreadsheets.googl...y=p9BODtOllD4sXsmwK_rgHQA

 

Braun: 19.00. Above average defense too!

Cameron: 17.70.

Branyan: 11.10. His injury really hurt us a lot no matter what people think of him. Though obviously he wouldnt' have kept up this pace.

Kendall: 7.10.

Hardy: 6.10. Surprisingly this site has him as one of the worst defensive SS in baseball, not sure how I feel about it.

Kapler: 6.10. Pretty amazing for a part time role.

Weeks: 2.40. His defense has actually been above average this season according to those stats.

Hart: 0.30. Below average defense in RF and I completely agree. He should swap with Braun who is a better fielder already.

Durham: 0.20

Fielder: -1.00. His defense has actually offset the offense.

Counsell: -2.50. His defense hasn't been nearly as good as last year.

Hall: -6.90. One of the worst players in all of baseball this year though his defense has been decent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit for clarity and to add link with more in depth numbers.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think your hyphens and negative signs are confusing.

[Darnell Junior]

If you look at career splits the platoon should be Weeks against righties and Durham against lefties, but who cares about statistics these days?

 

All I know is sitting your hottest hitter the last 3 weeks for 4 straight games is insanity.

[Ennder]

Weeks has a career OPS against Lefties of .824 vs a .731 vs righties.

Durham has a career OPS against lefties of .798 vs a .787 vs righties.

 

I'm not seeing why the split should be anything but Weeks vs Lefties and Durham vs righties if you are going with a strict platoon at least.

 

Durham is hitting .321/.406/.643/1.049 so far this month so I'd have to say he is our hottest hitter right now at least, him or Fielder.

[rousieboy]

Does anyone actually think Weeks will be back next year? I just don' see it.

As much as his stats mirror Utley before the Phillie 2B broke out and became a star...my answer is really, "God I hope not..."

 

I hope JJ moves to 2b and Escobar to leadoff...

[endaround]

Escobar's bat is not ready. I don't understand why people are dying to see Neifi Perez on the Brewers. Yes Escobar had nice numbers in AA, but if you look past the line you see they just don't transfer to the major leagues. First his ISO was .106, which is much better than what he has done before but still very little power. Yes he hit .328, but that only lead to an OBP of .364 which is bad when you consider it was all BABIP driven. I see no way he can get a BABIP of .375 in the majors. So take away 40 points off his BA just for that. Then take into account its the major leagues and you are likely looking at a .250/.290/.340 line.

[Diskono]

Diskono, which stat did you use to rank those players?

Sorry, I thought I put that in the post - I used OPS+. Obviously that doesn't take defense into account, though I must be one of the few who thinks Weeks' defense is fine. If it isn't, it seems that most agree that Weeks is equal to Durham at worst.

 

As far as next year (and the future), I'd be upset if we gave up on him. He's still a league average-quality player when he's having a bad year. Really, the only thing holding him back is batting average, and if he can bump that up just a little bit, he'll be great. I don't know why he's not getting as many hits as he did in the minors. Maybe he's not quite good enough, maybe his wrist is still healing (like Brad Nelson's)...who knows, but the thought of having .400 OBP with power at 2B is pretty exciting. Escobar might be able to do that eventually, but probably not in 2009.

[nate82]

A question that I have about replacing Weeks with Durham is when Weeks is put back into the lineup when facing a lefty or whatever Dale decides to do where do you bat Weeks? Do you keep him in the same spot that Durham is in? Move Hart to the 2nd spot in the lineup and bat Weeks 6th?

[Fatter than Joey]

Obviously that doesn't take defense into account, though I must be one of the few who thinks Weeks' defense is fine. If it isn't, it seems that most agree that Weeks is equal to Durham at worst.

 

Weeks D is horrible, I believe that Durham is probably better, Durham could be as bad though.

 

He's still a league average-quality player when he's having a bad year.

 

I don't believe this to be true. All of his offensive stats are average to below average (this year) for his position, his D is definitely taking him down another notch. Weeks is certainly better than the "replacement player" -- but he is well below average overall for starting ML 2bs.

 

the thought of having .400 OBP with power at 2B is pretty exciting

 

It is, however it is more of a pipedream. Since 2001 only 1 2b has had a .400 OBP, and that was Utley -- Weeks will never get to that level (or most 2bs) IMO.

[lcbj68c]

I don't have the heart to post another long opinion in the many masses of Weeks threads that have popped up over the season. Only to say that thoughts and projections and could-be's are all nice and well and good. Obviously the season's outcome is not Weeks' fault, but if he produces to his potential of .280/.380/.500 with 40 stolen bases and 120 runs, we probably aren't sitting out of the playoffs. I'm tired of waiting around and it's time for the train to leave the station.

[Postseason2006]

If you look at career splits the platoon should be Weeks against righties and Durham against lefties, but who cares about statistics these days?

 

All I know is sitting your hottest hitter the last 3 weeks for 4 straight games is insanity.

Weeks was hardly "hot" and his defense was hardly "good". Durham has been more than adequate. Maybe, you might want to find out why Kendall has iron-man, non-pinch hit-for duties.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's hardly "accurate".

 

Last 7 days: .429/.556/.714/1.270

 

September: .303/.439/.455/.894

[Diskono]

Weeks D is horrible, I believe that Durham is probably better, Durham could be as bad though.

According to Tom Tango's survey, Durham has been worse than Weeks for a few years now. Obviously that doesn't mean everything, but I think the fact that Giants fans think less of Durham's defense than Brewers fans think of Weeks' is noteworthy.

I don't believe this to be true. All of his offensive stats are average to below average (this year) for his position, his D is definitely taking him down another notch. Weeks is certainly better than the "replacement player" -- but he is well below average overall for starting ML 2bs.

It really depends on what stats you look at. Someone posted a link in this thread that says he's above average offensively and defensively. I don't know if that's true (particularly the defensive stats, which I don't put a whole lot of stock into), but most of his offensive stats have been very close to average for ALL players, not just 2B. If you compare them only to 2B, Weeks looks very good - on the previous page of this thread, I posted a list of regular starters in the AL East who have an OPS+ in 2008 worse than Weeks. Every team had at least 2 of them, and most of them were middle infielders.

It is, however it is more of a pipedream. Since 2001 only 1 2b has had a .400 OBP, and that was Utley -- Weeks will never get to that level (or most 2bs) IMO.

The Utley comparison is actually quite interesting. His numbers before 2005 were similar to Weeks' current career totals, Utley just had a little more SLG and a little less OBP. Remember, Chase Utley is 4 years older than Weeks, and his breakout year didn't come until age 26 - the same age Weeks will be next season. Weeks had much better offensive numbers in the minors and slightly better numbers in the majors before age 26, so it's hard to argue that its impossible for Weeks to follow that same path. I'm not saying that Weeks will be an MVP-type player next year - Utley's breakout season was highly improbable - but it can't be considered to be out of the question, especially for a player with so much talent.

[Gobias Industries]

Durham's been 'hot' for that period as well. I would have liked to see Rickie get the start last night, but that is moot since we won.

 

If he starts today against Rich Harden, perhaps the worst matchup in the entire league (for him, or any RHB), Dale is an idiot.