Replacing Weeks with Durham-why?

[logan82]

ELCABALLO45 wrote:

Pretty simple answer...

A. .287/.378

B. .233/.340

Also player B has a hard time turning simple double plays.

Who would you rather have?

Not as simple as you think when both of those lines were in large part due to 1st half numbers that are way out of their career norms. I think this is a perfect example of why using stats from just one year is a bad way to make decisions.

[ELCABALLO45]

ELCABALLO45 wrote:

Pretty simple answer...

A. .287/.378

B. .233/.340

Also player B has a hard time turning simple double plays.

Who would you rather have?

Not as simple as you think when both of those lines were in large part due to 1st half numbers that are way out of their career norms. I think this is a perfect example of why using stats from just one year is a bad way to make decisions.

So who would you rather have in a rotation?

 

Ryan Dempster and his career ERA as a starter of 4.67

or

Dave Bush and his career ERA as a starter of 4.44

 

Ray Durham is a career .277 hitter with a OBP of .352

 

Rickie Weeks is a career .245 hitter with a OBP of .352

 

You are what you are. You CAN"T say just because he had a good 1st half means he shouldnt be playing. Durham is the best option RIGHT now for this team.

[endaround]

No he isn't. Again the difference between the two offensively is nil and Weeks is better defensively. This is what I don't get, replacing Weeks with Durham doesn't really do anything. Yet people all over act like its something that must be done.

[kramnoj]

Weeks is better defensively but he makes more obvious mistakes. Glaring mistakes are more memorable for many than a ball that is outside the range of a player.

 

It should also be noted that Weeks has performed well recently, but he has performed well in a semi-platoon role where he has been prevented from playing against pitchers who Yost didn't think he would hit. That's not to say that Yost made the right choices, but if Weeks has a greater than normal platoon advantage in his recent numbers, that's a small explanation of why he has done well.

[rluzinski]

I don't think there is a huge difference between the two, either. They are fairly close at this point in their careers, with Weeks having more upside because he's a decade younger.

 

If someone wants to argue that the Brewers should go a different direction at 2B next year, you will get no argument from me. But to suggest that Durham is clearly the more valuable player is to ignore many of the facts. I mean, some still hold onto the belief that Durham is a decent defender, apparently based only on the handful of games they remember seeing him play in?. The Giant fans that saw him play for years thinks he's bad, so that seems a lot more credible than the opinion of a couple Brewer fans.

 

And while the most recent performances should be more weighted than past ones, that doesn't mean you should completely ignore everything else but this year! Why does that even need to be said?

[Diskono]

rluzinski wrote:

After Theriot sacrificed Soriano over to 3B in the 1st, Anderson said (paraphrasing), "That another reason why the Cubs score so many runs. They execute" nevermind that lee hits a double right after that, making the sacrifice largely irrelevant. The Cubs lead the NL in OBP and SLG, so presuming that the Cubs really do "execute" very good, just how much of a contributing factor is it? Who the heck knows because we are supposed to see "execute" and nod out heads in approval.

I'm glad someone else remembered that comment. Praising a player for "executing" after grounding out softly to the second baseman? The Brewers over the last 2 weeks must be the best-executing team in the history of the world.

 

Right now he's at 22 2B's, 6 3B's, and 12 HR. So his power is a bit down, but he has walked more than they expected.

Surely you mean HBP more than they expected!

[JohnBriggs12]

They need Durham's lefthanded bat in there vs. righthanders. There's no question I'd rather have both of them in the lineup right now. But they both play the same position.

 

I'd look for Weeks to CF idea to be revived this offseason. I'm not sure that will mean they'd bring back Ray or move Hardy, but I don't see Weeks at 2B next season. Cameron's horrid September should end any talk of bringing him back next season at $10 million. The guy looks done to me.

[Oldcity]

This has been bugging me more than anything lately. Not because Durham over Weeks is hurting the team a ton, but because it's widely accepted that Durham over Weeks is the obvious choice. It's not at all, and I think it's the wrong one for reasons already documented in this thread.

[Thurston Fluff]

Weeks seems to be taking the brunt of some unfair critisism with fans. Durham is an easy out since most people have no idea that he is actually a worse defender than Weeks. I think it's more about not knowing Durham well enough to realize he isn't very good than it is Weeks being worse. That deosn't explain why the manager wold make the move. But it's his job interview so I guess it's his choice to make.

 

But all they did was state the reason and apparently.... that was good enough for them. No real discussion. nothing. I mean, you don't even bring up production at all?

 

If by the them you mean the game broadcasters keep in mind they are essentially the Brewers employees. I know they can comment on what they see and do not have to walk lock step with the team but they're job is different than that of the journalists that cover the team. Their job is to dissect the game in front of them as it happens more than it is to dissect who should and shouldn't be playing and why.

I'd like to see beat writers do a little more questioning about the validity of such decisions more than I want to see Uecker or powell second guessing who is on the field.

[endaround]

I think Russ meant Witardo and Haudricort.

 

My big issue is that Hart has been killing the team and yet no Nelson. Hart vs RHP this year:.265 .297 .467

[jeffy]

Weeks is better defensively but he makes more obvious mistakes. Glaring mistakes are more memorable for many than a ball that is outside the range of a player.

Yep, it's easy to see a flubbed throw, not so easy to see a hit and think if Weeks was out there maybe he gets to that ball.

 

This is the same sort of thing that leads to underrating Cameron, he often makes an easy play where someone else would make a diving, highlight worthy, catch.

[Weirdos19]

Weeks needs to go. He could be great someday, but it probably won't happen here.

 

When the pressure is on, he fails. He presses more than anybody on the team.

 

Every pitcher we face will be throwing change ups, since we've proven that we can't hit them. Weeks can't wait back on most fastballs, let alone change ups. Dempster must have thrown 30 or 40 changes last night.

[joepepsi]

Does anyone actually think Weeks will be back next year? I just don' see it.

I hope he is back next year.

 

With only 11 games remaining I've all but given up on anything making sense with this team. I just want to see if they can win one more game. Frankly I don't care who plays the next 11 games as long as they can win one game.

 

That said, Weeks should be playing against any lefties from here on out. And for cripesakes how about just one game where Durham leads off and Lamb, playing 3rd, bats 2nd.

[TooLiveBrew]

Cameron's horrid September should end any talk of bringing him back next season at $10 million. The guy looks done to me.

 

Oh yeah man. He's toast. #7 MLB CF OPS (with at least 450 PA). Clearly the game has passed him by. 51 randomly-selected PAs tell us all we need to know.

 

 

Yep, it's easy to see a flubbed throw, not so easy to see a hit and think if Weeks was out there maybe he gets to that ball.

 

This is the same sort of thing that leads to underrating Cameron, he often makes an easy play where someone else would make a diving, highlight worthy, catch.

 

Good points jeffy. Like I mentioned, I think a perfect example of what you're talking about was the Dempster bloop into shallow RF last night. Weeks has a very legit shot to make that play, while Durham couldn't get within close enough to dive.

[BADGERJOBOB]

Good points jeffy. Like I mentioned, I think a perfect example of what you're talking about was the Dempster bloop into shallow RF last night. Weeks has a very legit shot to make that play, while Durham couldn't get within close enough to dive.

Good point but I think Sveum is looking at balancing out the lineup for these last 12 games. I think overall at this point in time Durham and Weeks are a wash. I would love to have both in the lineup at this point in time but that doesn't appear to be an option. I don't agree with Cameron leading off (and Hart in the lineup at all) but this new lineup did add more lefthanded batters forcing other teams to make more situational decisions. Now I do think that Weeks should have pinch-hit for Durham when Durham was forced to bat right handed.

 

On other note, is Shouse are only lefthanded pitcher in the pen that was available last night?? I don't know why Sveum let Shouse pitch to Blanco unless that was it for our lefthanded pitchers and a Shouse/Blanco matchup was better than a righty RP/LH pinch hitter.

[joepepsi]

I think Hart continues to play everyday because there's no proven Veteran Gamer to play the outfield since Kapler is injured. It's pretty obvious they have no intention of playing any of the minor leaguers in the field.

[TooLiveBrew]

On other note, is Shouse are only lefthanded pitcher in the pen that was available last night?? I don't know why Sveum let Shouse pitch to Blanco unless that was it for our lefthanded pitchers and a Shouse/Blanco matchup was better than a righty RP/LH pinch hitter.

 

After a RP is announced, he must face one batter before another P can relieve him. Piniella drew out Shouse with Ward in the on-deck circle, but after Shouse was officially announced, Lou went to Blanco.

 

 

I think overall at this point in time Durham and Weeks are a wash. I would love to have both in the lineup at this point in time but that doesn't appear to be an option.

 

Yeah -- I wish Durham could get in at 3B sometimes, and I agree that Weeks would have been nice to see v. the lefty, but Durham actually has been better v. LHP for his career. This year is a bit of a fluke in terms of his splits.

[BADGERJOBOB]

On other note, is Shouse are only lefthanded pitcher in the pen that was available last night?? I don't know why Sveum let Shouse pitch to Blanco unless that was it for our lefthanded pitchers and a Shouse/Blanco matchup was better than a righty RP/LH pinch hitter.

 

After a RP is announced, he must face one batter before another P can relieve him. Piniella drew out Shouse with Ward in the on-deck circle, but after Shouse was officially announced, Lou went to Blanco.

Thank you. I didnt know the actual requirement.

[dadofandrew]

Durham is playing because they continue to search for the hot hand...as long as he gets a hit or two a game, I would think they'll hang with Ray.

[Fatter than Joey]

Oh yeah man. He's toast. #7 MLB CF OPS (with at least 450 PA). Clearly the game has passed him by. 51 randomly-selected PAs tell us all we need to know.

 

That was said in reference to Cam's recent struggles but earlier you said this in defense of Weeks, seems like you buttering both sides of the bread.

 

batting leadoff has gotten to his head to the tune of a .430+ OBP so far in September

[Gobias Industries]

I'd look for Weeks to CF idea to be revived this offseason.

That isn't a bad idea. I was thinking the other day that we could really beef up Weeks' value if he learned how to play CF, and still continue to start some games at 2B as well. Kind of like a Mark DeRosa type player. Get a few starts at 2B each week, and a couple in CF as well.

 

He's been used really well since Durham came aboard (not facing tough RH'ers), and if he could play multiple positions the team could realistically semi-platoon him like this.

[1992casey]

It isn't that the choice to play Durham is bad. As has been pointed out, it's basically a horse apiece.

 

The public reasoning behind the decision sucks, though. If it's an indicator of how Sveum might make future decisions, then there's cause for concern. Of course, given his short tenure, we can also offer the benefit of the doubt and hope that he simply didn't get into detail.

 

It's certainly appropriate for the press to question Dale's explanation. It doesn't necessarily need to happen face to face, but it could have made for good discussion between commentators on the game broadcasts.

[Ennder]

I still think Durham against most righties, especially those with good off speed stuff and Weeks vs Lefties makes the most sense.

[TooLiveBrew]

That was said in reference to Cam's recent struggles but earlier you said this in defense of Weeks, seems like you buttering both sides of the bread.

I responded to a comment on Rickie, and you're right -- I pointed out his recent success. I only did that since it's a recent commonly-used split (Sept.). I was not making a comment on whether or not Rickie was 'finished' or 'golden', only that batting leadoff has not appeared to have affected him recently.

JohnBriggs's point that, "Cameron's horrid September should end any talk of bringing him back next season at $10 million. The guy looks done to me.", is not the same as saying, 'No, I don't think batting leadoff gets to Weeks's head -- in fact, recently he's been great there'.

[Fatter than Joey]

fair enough.

 

I think they both suck.