Macha Selected As New Brewers Manager (reply 667ish)

[TSack27]

When it comes to on-field success, I personally struggle to understand why recycling old managers that nobody else wanted last year is better (just like recycling CEOs of companies after they get bought out to go away for their failings). The big name may help with free agent recruiting and selling tickets & advertising, but that is no assurance of managerial success. I believe the ability to relate to the changing younger generation of players and the energy to keep up with them is important (and some of the names listed seem to have a history of being stubborn and stuck in their old ways when things don't go as planned). I can't help but think of the situation in Tampa - the much heralded & traveled Lou Pinella couldn't get it done, but the relatively unknown Joe Maddon is pulling many of the right strings.

All that said, for all the good alternative thinking Sveum showed in his 2+ weeks, starting Suppan in the crucial game 4 may have been akin to shooting himself in the foot.

[foamboy1]

I think the timing is odd.

 

A few days ago when other names arose, Melvin made comments about "having an obligation" to meet with other people that expressed and interest and had experience. At that point, he sure didn't sound like he really wanted to consider them.

 

Then, a few days later as his personal extension is announced with Mark A., it is also announced that Sveum is not a candidate. I wonder if they are tied....in that, Mark A. gave Melvin the extension but also said that he/they would agree that Sveum is not coming back.

 

My money is that Mark A. wants someone with more experience and made Melvin agree with that as a condition of the extension.

[Ennder]

If it is Showalter or another "proven" manager I wonder if it means that the Brewers don't look at 2009 as somewhat of a rebuilding year. I'm guessing they go hard after free agent pitching and we won't see Escobar or Gamel in a major role for 2009. I also doubt Hardy or Fielder would get traded in this scenario.

 

I'm still confused why people thought 2009 would be a rebuilding year. We are losing 2 pitchers from a 90 win team, one only pitched for us half a year and the other is replaced by Gallardo. There is absolutely no reason for 2009 to be a rebuilding time. We are playoff contenders again most likely.

[JohnBriggs12]

I am partially sickened by the way this has been handled so far. Sveum's words are telling. He clearly feels as if he has been burned. If Melvin didn't want Sveum (which is most likely the case), he should have let him know that from the onset. You just don't burn bridges in sports this easily, especially someone so loyal to your organization. Sveum has clearly been soured by this experience.

 

For the record, I don't think Sveum is the guy to lead us, but I feel bad for Sveum and wish him luck.

What is he going to tell him? He was hired as "interim manager", with interim being the operative word. Melvin left the door open to bring him back if he went deep in playoffs but 4 games is not deep. Sure, he made the playoffs, largely on the basis of playing Pittsburgh 3 times and the Cubs who were disinterested. I'm sure that caused Melvin to drag it out a little longer, but I think he finally decided that Sveum either wasn't experienced enough or didn't represent enough of a change from the previous regime. Ironically as it is being the first playoff team in 26 years, a lot of guys on this club underachieved in 2008. Sabathia saved them to the extent he could, but if he's not around, unless some of these guys turn it around, they could slip really badly in 09.

[Never Outhustled]

Melvin gave Sveum an interview , and said it focused largely on mangerial strategy. Obviously, Sveum's old school approach didn't produce the answers Melvin was looking for.

I give Melvin big credit for not taking the easy way out. You should hire the best manager possible no matter what situation your in. I'd expect Ken Macha to be named the Brewer manager any day. That will be an awesome hire.

[kramnoj]

When it comes to on-field success, I personally struggle to understand why recycling old managers that nobody else wanted last year is better

 

It's easier to fail with a Proven Veteran (whether that be a player or a manager) than with a Rookie. The press won't question you as much, and the public feels more comfortable with known commodities. When I was selling Gateway Computers, there was a saying in the buying industry: "Nobody gets fired for buying Compaqs". If you take a chance with someone that has had success before and they fail, that's just bad luck. If you take a chance on an unknown and they fail, you made a bad choice.

 

I can't help but think of the situation in Tampa - the much heralded & traveled Lou Pinella couldn't get it done, but the relatively unknown Joe Maddon is pulling many of the right strings.

 

I'm assuming you know it's not that simple.

 

I think it would be worth a thread to just talk about what people think is most important in a manager. Is it the in-game tactics? The Human Resources managing of people? Managing a pitching staff? Where do people rank Public Relations with their preference of a manager (I think it's one of the last things I would consider, but plenty of people didn't like Yost's post-game style).

[dadofandrew]

I agree Macha is the favorite in my eye. I also agree that Doug probably listened to Dale say they need more speed and contact and decided he was not the fella for the job.

[JoeHova]

I'd prefer Davey Johnson out of the guys mentioned. I always liked him and I always liked the attitude his teams (especially the Mets) had, which was kind of a "we're going to do what we want and we don't care whether you like it or not" type of thing. I think that would fit well with guys like Braun and Prince.

 

Macha sounds like he knows what he is doing, but I'd be worried about hiring anyone who inspired such unvarnished hatred. I'm not saying players have to be coddled, but generally, if everyone hates you, you're the problem, not everyone else. Showalter has the same problem, though to a slightly lesser extent. I mean, even the hard-ass of all hard-asses, Vince Lombardi, inspired love more than hate among his players. Same with guys like Parcells and Gregg Popovich. It's one thing to have players not always like you or agree with you. It's another to have them not respect you and hate you.

[yount19.u]

I feel bad for Sveum. He was a loyal soldier as far as baseball people go, and by reading his comments, you can tell he really loved being a Brewer. I would have liked to see him back, but I guess I can't blame Melvin for wanting to go with more experience. Out of all the names, I would prefer Davey Johnson as well, but I have this feeling it will be Buck Showalter. None of these options get me really excited, though.

[PeaveyFury]

Allow me to add myself to the Davey Johnson list. Of those mentioned, Johnson and Valentine are the only ones that interest me at all, and I'd be happy with either one.

[Brewer Fever]

Bring on Buck Showalter! We're a lock to win the World Series the year after he's fired.

[BrewCrewWS2008]

This sucks, I felt Sveum was the man for the job. Hes honest, straight to the point, knows his baseball, and the players love to play for him! Not sure if you guys played college or high school sports but to i always liked the younger coaches that can relate to the players. Its nice to have an old knowledgable coach but it doesnt build great chemistry. Dale stepped in and got all those young guys behind him. Experence doesn't always make you better, smarter or anything....if it did those guys wouldnt be unemployed. Plus CC really liked Dale, so anyone who was still holding out a little hope for CC, idk that may factor in. Maybe not 2 much cause he just enjoys the club house all together though. All in all, look at the nfl right now, it is all new young inexperienced coaches, and its working, teams arent living in the past bringing in all these old guys because they have more experience. They care about knowledge, energy, and leadership, NOT just experience. Dale has all them. Just because baseball is americas past time doesnt mean we have to live in the past and bring in some guy who couldnt cut it at his last job. If they were that great of managers they wouldnt be sitting in the unemployment line.

[kramnoj]

Its nice to have an old knowledgable coach but it doesnt build great chemistry.

 

This is stated too plainly. I guess I'd like to know what you mean by old, but plenty of older managers have won in baseball. It's tough to find a team where chemistry led to winning, as opposed to the other way around. Can you think of some?

 

All in all, look at the nfl right now, it is all new young inexperienced coaches, and its working, teams arent living in the past bringing in all these old guys because they have more experience. They care about knowledge, energy, and leadership, NOT just experience.

 

There's not much to compare managing in baseball and being the head coach in football. Football is all about preparing for one game, and having 5-6 days to do it. Baseball is about managing for a season while trying to win a game each day. They really aren't comparable.

[AJAY]

I also agree that Doug probably listened to Dale say they need more speed and contact and decided he was not the fella for the job.

 

That was also the first thing that came to my mind. I know that when the Brewers were eliminated from the postseason, Dale Svuem was pretty blunt about wanting to change the offensive approach. I am not sure if that is what is what Melvin disliked, but you can't help but wonder.

 

I am sure it's probably a combination of things.

[BADGERJOBOB]

I didn't want Sveum back. I know it was a small sample size but he showed a lot of stubborness and similarities with Yost in his unwillingness to change up the lineup. In particular, not shifting Hart down in the order if we didn't have any better options. He also should have handled game 4 better with an all hands on deck mentality and managed all his pitchers (minus CC) situationally throughout that game.

 

This club needs a proven winner. Having said that, I don't like any of the other candidates. Seems like no one who has been coached by Showalter or Macha respects them. I kind of liked Brenly but there are too many comments out there about his lack of ability. Valentine is a blow hard and an egomaniac that should not even be considered.

 

The unprecedented move here and probably one that would be viewed badly is that we sign Sveum to the smallest of contracts, years and money, basically throwing away this year. If he gets us a very successful season, we keep him. If he doesn't, we make a huge play for Tony Larussa who could very well be available for 2010 as I think Larussa is out after the 2009 season. Yes I know he is an egomaniac on par or worse than Valentine but if there is one thing that LaRussa has proven is that he gets winning results consistently.

[BrewCrewForever]

Very happy about the Melvin extension.

 

Dale is a good guy, I wanted a more experienced Manager but would have been okay if he came back. I'm sure he will coach somewhere and someday will get a Manager's job. I wish him all the best.

 

Glad Skaalen is gone, thanks God.

 

I'm really fine with any of the following being named Manager: Macha, Showalter, Valentine or Johnson. I will pass on Randolph, Brenly and Martinez.

[BADGERJOBOB]

I also agree that Doug probably listened to Dale say they need more speed and contact and decided he was not the fella for the job.

 

That was also the first thing that came to my mind. I know that when the Brewers were eliminated from the postseason, Dale Svuem was pretty blunt about wanting to change the offensive approach.

I actually like that kind of philosophy but this team would need a huge overhaul if you wanted to do that. You need high OBP, good contact hitters who don't strikeout, good bunting, speed and clutch hitters up and down your lineup. I don't think any of our players have a majority of those types of skills. That would require a lot more trades and more than likely the team would lose more the next 2-3 years while we reshape the ballclub to fit that type of philosophy. Further proof that while Sveum could very well be a very good manager, he is really not a good fit for this club.

[benji]

If it is Showalter or another "proven" manager I wonder if it means that the Brewers don't look at 2009 as somewhat of a rebuilding year. I'm guessing they go hard after free agent pitching and we won't see Escobar or Gamel in a major role for 2009. I also doubt Hardy or Fielder would get traded in this scenario.

 

I'm still confused why people thought 2009 would be a rebuilding year. We are losing 2 pitchers from a 90 win team, one only pitched for us half a year and the other is replaced by Gallardo. There is absolutely no reason for 2009 to be a rebuilding time. We are playoff contenders again most likely.

Although I agree with you that we should be playoff contenders in 2009, many on this board have speculated that it would be a semi-rebuilding year. You know better than I that the 2 pitchers we lost or may lose are 2 of the best 5-6 starters in the NL. This is misplaced in this thread but is it reasonable to assume that Gallardo can replace Sheets' production?

[Hate those Rodents]

If Iorg were interim manager and able to beat the Pirates and the already clinched Cubs to get us to lose in the playoffs, some people would say he deserved to be back. Sveum had MANY flaws in his time here. He wasn't even a good third base coach. I did like Sveum's personality and think he belongs on a MLB staff though. I also thank him forever for getting us to the playoffs though, for which I am convinced Yost would not have been able to do.

 

That brings me to point two. People seem worried that Melvin's extension was contingent on him agreeing to a possible desire of Mark A to bring on a veteran manager. Why? Attanasio has meddled very little and the times he has he's been right.

 

1) You need to fire Yost or we will not make the playoffs

2) I don't care if they insist on LaPorta, get the CC deal done

 

if we have to add.....

 

3) We can do better than Sveum. Fire him and bring on someone more experienced...

 

.....I will have no problem with Attanasio making the right call for his franchise again and still will not call him "meddling" or a "micromanager" like some post tones indicate some are feeling.

 

Edited here for a third point/opinion: Calling these names "retreads" or something to that effect is unfair. Yes, sometimes there are hires that don't deserve ANOTHER chance. But these guys had to work their way up the ladder to become a manager just like everyone else. At one point, they were the "hot" and "new" candidate. I just think some are too harsh on some of the names being thrown around here. All have had success and all have had some failures just like anyone in baseball. My bet is whomever we hire will be much better than Yost or Sveum and will lead us to success IN the playoffs in the very near future.

[Mike Felder]

While I don't disagree with either managerial decision the Brewers have made this year (firing Yost and not bringing back Sveum), I don't particularly like the way either of those decisions have gone down. Firing a guy who owns a tie for the wild card lead with 12 games left in the season made good sense to all of us, but left the rest of baseball wondering if the Brewers were insane. And while not bringing back Sveum is a good decision, I don't think this was the right way to go about it either. How hard is it to wait until you've hired someone and then make a statement saying, "We interviewed a lot of good candidates, but in the end, we felt that _____________ (Davey Johnson I hope) was the best fit for this job. We wish all the other candidates the best of luck in their baseball futures." or something like that? The way it was done just seems kind of cold, and yes I know it's a competitive business, but you're still looking for red-blooded humans to fill those positions. I would have much rather had the Brewers announce who they've hired and let us all know from that that Sveum was not their man, rather than kind of single him out as someone who is not fit for the position before they've even picked a manager. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the Brewers have hurt their reputation among baseball front office/managerial types over the last month or so.

[giffted1]

Attanasio has meddled very little and the times he has he's been right.

I don't know about that one. You can add:

 

4) We need a big game pitcher if we're gonna contend. We're gonna sign Jeff Suppan.

[Hate those Rodents]

Attanasio has meddled very little and the times he has he's been right.

I don't know about that one. You can add:

 

4) We need a big game pitcher if we're gonna contend. We're gonna sign Jeff Suppan.

I don't know that that wasn't Doug's call. I think he only meddled this year when he needed to (telling Doug to "overpay" if he had to for CC and telling him Yost had to go). I think he gave the keys to Doug prior to this year. Circumstances came up where he had to get involved this year. I doubt it was Mark that said "we GOTTA get Soup". I think he did tell Melvin we needed to spend money on a free agent to prove to the fans we are for real about building a winner. Melvin chose to spend the money on Soup.

[kramnoj]

I would have much rather had the Brewers announce who they've hired and let us all know from that that Sveum was not their man, rather than kind of single him out as someone who is not fit for the position before they've even picked a manager.

 

I'm not sure what the distinction is. Either way the Brewers felt that Sveum wasn't the right fit at this time. This way Sveum knows where he stands and has more time to start looking for employment elsewhere. How does it benefit Sveum to be sitting in limbo until the Brewers make (or announce) their decision, which could be weeks away?

[pitchleague]

I think the Suppan signing was a "good" thing in the long run, because it showed potential free-agents that Milwaukee is now a place that will pay for a signing. Milwaukee used to be like Green Bay in the NFL back in the 80s and early 90s--pretty much Siberia. Nobody wanted to come here unless it was a last resort. The Suppan signing told people that Milwaukee was ready to contend and were willing to put out the money to get it done. Sure, Suppan has definitely NOT been worth the money, but, perhaps, it will help other free-agents to consider Milwaukee as a destination to play and win.

 

As for the overhauling the roster to improve the OBP and such, I don't think that's entirely necessary. Look at the Cubs from '07 to '08--they were middle of the pack in runs and OBP in one year, changed the roster just a little (Fukudome in the off-season, Reed Johnson and Jim Edmonds a month into the season) and BINGO! They were the hottest offensive team in the league with a league-leading OBP to boot (something like a .050 difference from '07 if I remember correctly).

 

So it can happen with the Brewers (or any team, really) with a little plate discipline. Or black magic (I'll assume that's what the Cubs used.)

 

As for this thread, I'm happy that Melvin will be back for three years. He is integral to our team's future.

When it comes to managerial candidates, Showalter always starts off good with his players but wears thin quickly with his "rules" and "headmaster ways" (the stories I could tell you from his D-Back days. . . ) However, someone else did point out the truism that once he leaves, the team seems to win the World Series the following year.

 

I'd prefer Bobby Valentine, myself. Sure, he's got an ego, but his time in Japan may have brought him down a rung or two. Plus, I love his attitude toward the game, his strategies, and the fact that he tells it like it is. Having managed in Japan may have given him some more ideas to try in the Major Leagues, too.

[saget]

My vote is for Kapler as Player/Coach.

Seconded