Yost Fired, Sveum named Acting Manager; Yount bench coach, Iorg 3B coach

[RoseBowlMtg]

With part of the reason being this collapse happened last year too I thought I would see how the players did from the beginning of Sept to now last year and compare it to this year and see if there is a reason they were 8-6 during this stretch last year and 2-11 this year:

 

player: ave, HR- RBI/ ave, HR- RBI (07/08)

Kendall: .186, 1-5/ Estrada .306, 1-8

Fielder: .239, 2-6/ .358, 7-12

Weeks: .303, 1-1/ .273, 2-3

Hall: .167, 0-1/ .269, 1-7

JJ: .190, 4-6/ .250, 2-4

Braun: .192, 1-2/ .294, 5-15

Cameron: .122, 1-2/ Jenkins: .308, 1-5

Hart: .176, 0-2/ .409, 3-9

 

This year they knocked in 25 runs/ In 07 they knocked in 55 runs

 

What would have happened if we scored 30 more runs the last 13 games?

[Leinie Lodge]

For those who wanted a headline "Toast" somewhere, you'll be happy to know that FSN The Final Score used the headline "Ned Toast" on that little sidebar. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Add Fox6 Sports Tom Pippens' opening graphic "YOST IS TOAST"

[jeffy]

Rosenthal's column referred Under Yost as "a veritable Captain Queeg in the dugout". Not being familiar with this allusion, I went off to find out about this Captain...

 

Queeg...is assigned in September 1943 as captain of the U.S.S. Caine... It is his first command. He is initially welcomed by the crew as a tough, no-nonsense veteran, who will shape up the ship after his slovenly (but effective) predecessor's departure...

 

It quickly becomes apparent that Queeg is prone to eccentric behavior. Queeg displays an oppressive command style and is prone to unprovoked angry outbursts. From the first, he begins to make mistakes that endanger his ship...He panics in a fog...

Queeg neglects to order the ship to stop turning while distracted in reprimanding a crew member for having his shirttail out http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif ...When called on the carpet by a superior after this incident, he refuses to acknowledge that it even happened, much less admit blame in any way (although he harbors a secret grudge against his helmsman for not warning him). His superiors are not satisfied, but allow him to retain command...

 

After fifteen months with Queeg in command, the Caine is caught in a typhoon and in danger of sinking. Maryk believes Queeg unable to deal with the crisis and relieves him of command

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Queeg

 

Assuming Rosenthal's characterization is correct, putting that together with the other information that has leaked out and JJ's comments and the comment that Sveum is respected by all the players, I think it is pretty clear that much of the team had lost whatever respect they may have had for Yost as a manager.

[Tbadder]

I can't believe this is a big deal. It's not going to change the team. Oh sure, there might be an imporvment in game strategy, but will it be enough to help? No, not really. The hitters are still unprofessional in their approach, with an absolute refusal to make adjustments at the plate. They still refuse to take the walk or work the count. The bullpen isn't going to get any better. I think the Brewers are now just desparate and hoping for some voodoo to get them over the hump. Yost is not toast, the Brewers are.

[jeffy]

It's the Cards who we hate.

Due to several incidents, some here have started to hate the Cards as much or more than the Cubs.

[lcbj68c]

They now need to find a manager who can be that guy to get us over the hump.

I only problem I have with that is next year won't be about getting over the hump, IMO. It will be about rebuilding. Sheets and Sabathia will likely both be gone and the bullpen needs a major overhaul. 3rd base is still a problem and I reckon the bench will be different in 2009 as well. I think 2009 wont be about trying to make the playoffs, it'll be about trying to stay out of the cellar. For that, Mickey Mouse can come in and coach.

[naivin]

The more I read comments from players, Melvin, Attanasio...everyone involved, the more I think this thing has Prince Fielder's finger prints all over it. Not just him, mind you, but given his stauts he would be the key. All this talk about how loyal Ned was, and how some guys didn't return the favor; some players thought he was too nervous, and caused tension in the dugout, etc. This is admittedly all rank speculation on my part, but by a process of elimination, I think we can reasonably conclude who did not necessarily feel that way, based on some of their comments, etc...Counsell, Kendall, Cameron, Hardy, Braun...I would say all absolved Ned from blame to some extent and demonstrated loyalty to him through their comments. As far as position players go, that basically leaves Fielder, Weeks, Hart and Hall - four guys to whom Ned was unbelievably loyal, and went out of his way to protect, and from my very outsiders perspective, are the very same guys who showed no interest in rewarding that loyalty.

 

Again, just a theory on my part, but exteremly disappointing if true. I think Fielder has demonstrated flashes of immaturity/unprofessionalism thoughout this season, and perhaps this is just another example. Many reports indicate this was not exactly a surprise and had been coming for a couple weeks - I also find it interesting that he seemed to find his stroke the last couple days. I know that is probably just a coincidence, but I do find it interesting.

 

Alright, let me have it...I can take it.

[viking188]

FWIW:

I do not see this as a good thing for Milwaukee baseball in the future. This was purely 110% an owner meddling in baseball operations. I am convinced of several things;

1) This firing has been in the works for a while. Mark A. probably started looking at this option after the Boston massacre.

2) Doug M. was against it, and has fought long and hard for Ned.(see; Simmons,CC,Durham, etc) in an attempt to shore up players who for whatever reason, can't play without constant hand holding and praise. Prince took a nosedive right after his contract talks went nowhere, and Braun got his deal. Sheets had a bad spell after CC came in and made it look look Sheets wasn't a lock to be the #1 guy forever. Hall is still haveing a tempertantrum after being moved to OF last year. Corey is not playing well of late because he thought his deal would be sealed by now.

3)Doug made a call or trip to see Kremblas, said Yost is on the way out, and Mark A. is not going to move you up. Kremblas walks.

4) Mark A tell Doug, fire Yost or I fire both of you. Mark A thinks Simmons will stay. Simmons as we all now is loyal to Yost, and wants no part of managing, he walks.

5) To shorten this up; the Brewers will have a VERY tough time hireing a name manager, when it is

known that you can be fired no matter what you do. ( Come on, its a business; they put 3M+ in the stands, which is unheard of in MILW.) The only way Mark A gets a top manager now is to give him a 5 year ironclad big money deal.

To summarize; Mark A is looking at winning a pennant NOW, so he can maximize the value of his investment, to sell..( which means very possibly MOVE).

[trwi7]

( which means very possibly MOVE).

You mean the Brewers moving? Yeah, not happening.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Doug is on with Cliff Saunders on WSSP right now.

[endaround]

The more I read comments from players, Melvin, Attanasio...everyone involved, the more I think this thing has Prince Fielder's finger prints all over it.

I can make an even more plausible case out of nothing for Braun (Yost just moved him in the batting order after complained about it to begin the year, he had to call out the players and not Yost after Boston). But that is baseless. But hey let's blame Fielder based on wild speculation and gut feeling and then talk about how immature he is based on groundless speculation!

[naivin]

I can make an even more plausible case out of nothing for Braun (Yost just moved him in the batting order after complained about it to begin the year, he had to call out the players and not Yost after Boston). But that is baseless. But hey let's blame Fielder based on wild speculation and gut feeling and then talk about how immature he is based on groundless speculation!

One major difference that blows your baseless theory out of the water vs. my baseless theory, and that is Braun's public commenst in the wake of Ned's firing. I don't discount Braun's influence over the organization...he's the man and everyone knows it. Yet, he has publicly stepped up and taken responsibility on the part of himeslef and the rest of the players.

 

For the record, you think Fielder has conducted himself in a completely mature and professional manner this spring/season?

[Postseason2006]

I still want to know why Kremblas was let go. I don't know what more the guy had to do to get the chance to manage here. I am tired of bringing in former Brewers to coach. Let it go.

[Fatter than Joey]

But hey let's blame Fielder based on wild speculation and gut feeling and then talk about how immature he is based on groundless speculation!

 

I thought when Prince shoved Parra, that showed an incredible lack of immaturity. That said, I agree it is foolish to begin to speculate "who got Ned fired".

 

It could have been a vet, like Counsell or Gagne, who have been in a lot of postseasons and told DM that Yost was losing it -- A case could be made any player, I think DM would value the opinion more of a guy like Counsell than Weeks or even Fielder.

[endaround]

No, it just shows Braun knows how to deflect blame! Once you start making things it up it easy to allow the few known facts fit the story.

[liveforoctober]

Doug is on with Cliff Saunders on WSSP right now.

 

Can you update us once it's done?

[trwi7]

Can you update us once it's done?

It's done. I still think Mark A. pulled the trigger on this. Melvin sounded really depressed in the interview. Basically the same thing, Sveum's job got a lot tougher and that, nobody knows how to fix what's going on and that, Yount is only coming back for the rest of the season to help out is friend and that etc. He also gave a Gallardo update which I posted in the Gallardo thread.

[Buckhunts]

News flash, you can be educated and intelligent and still be an idiot (or more accurately act like an idiot) like a lot of people on this very site do.

 

Let me spell it out for you.... but you sound like an "idiot"

When directed toward a member, "News flash," and "Let me spell it out for you" cross the condescension line. "but you sound like an idiot" far surpasses that line.

 

Please stick to addressing the message rather than attacking the messenger.

 

If I hurt anyone's feelings, sorry.

[trwi7]

Haha, Cliff is pissed about this. I have to say, it's kind of pathetic listening to him. It sounds like he's trying to play devil's advocate but is failing badly in his acting job.

[naivin]

That said, I agree it is foolish to begin to speculate "who got Ned fired".

I should probably clarify my position, but its hard to articulate. I don't necessarilly think that Prince "got Ned fired" and I realize you put that in quotes. I don't think this was a situation where he was whining to DM, or anything like that. I guess I just feel like Prince in particular may not have been as appreciative as perhaps he should be to how much Ned went out of his way to protect him, Weeks, Hall, etc. he clearly had their backs every time, and I just get the sense they didn't return the favor. Ned got himself fired, let there be no doubt. I guess what it comes down to is my sense that these guys are more likely to complain about Ned as opposed to taking a minute to look in the mirror. I readily admit there is a good chance I'm wrong, but I am beginning to have my doubts as to whether the attitude and professionalim matches the talent.

 

Anyway, i don't care. Its done, and its done because they weren't going to bring him back in '09 anyway. We'll see what happens.

[jeffy]

Sveum has some changes in mind, said Brewers principal owner Mark Attanasio, but the new skipper planned to "ruminate" on those changes overnight and meet with his coaches and select players early Tuesday before putting any of them into effect.

"He has some ideas that sound a little different," Attanasio said.

...

"I think everyone respects Dale," Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy said. "It's not like people are going to be looking at him and questioning what he does. Everybody already respects him

...

"They'll all find out how tough Ned's job was, right?" Melvin said.

 

http://milwaukee.brewers....mp;fext=.jsp&c_id=mil

[Patrick425]

Sorry if something about this has already been posted, but I thought I heard something about a press conference this morning. Did anyone else hear this and if so, who is giving the press conference?

 

edit: Just heard it again..Ned Yost at 11am

[Thurston Fluff]

If he had lost the players, then I would throw my long standing Yost-support behind the firing. It's all about the leading of the team. If the team was no longer willing to follow him, then it's good that he's gone.

 

Having said that... the next guy in line (after Sveum) is almost a sure-fire lock to do many of the same "idiotic" things that Yost did. Why? Because they (almost) all do. The chances of the love child of Bill James and George S Patton coming to the Brewers is slim and none.

 

Exactly what I thought Bucky. The way they played in Phillie was a disgrace. They looked like a team playing out the string as opposed to one that was trying to hold a lead for a playoff spot. How that happens I have no idea. it may be telling about the manager but it shoudl also say someithgn obout the players. No manager is so horrible that a team in the position they were in has an excuse to play that uninspired of baseball.

Personally I felt it was the weight of so many years of bad baseball taking it's toll. I think it was part of why Ned ended up failing in the end as well.

Ultimately I think Ned's best attribute was also his downfall. His loyalty to his players. I read an article in the JS where Mark A said there was no such thing as too loyal and Ned was very loyal. He also said he didn't think that loyalty was always returned in kind. If that is the case get rid of any player who failed in that regard. If you can't cover someones back that has always had yours you are always going to be part of the problem not part of the solution.

 

As I said in another thread. I have given up worrying about the playoff drought. I have given up worrying about anything other than enjoying the games and the chase for October. So I will give up worrying about who is managing and look to see if the players can break out of this slump and win some games.

[jeffy]

They looked like a team playing out the string as opposed to one that was trying to hold a lead for a playoff spot.

 

I thought Yost was managing as if that were the case, while Manuel was managing as if it were a playoff series.

[dhoffman19]

The more I read comments from players, Melvin, Attanasio...everyone involved, the more I think this thing has Prince Fielder's finger prints all over it.

I was thinking the very same thing. Not saying Fielder was driving this or anything, but I'm guessing he was one of the guys Hardy may have been talking about. A good guess, in my opinion.