Home Field Disadvantage

[brewers19]

Who says he went to the media? It's seems much more likely that Haudricourt came to him with the story already in mind and simply went quote-fishing.

[DougJones43]

Can someone just simply tell me what positive impact booing your team at home has? I hear a lot of things like "it's my right" and "they deserve it", but what are you actually trying to do here?

The same could be said about posting on message boards, which a poster earlier suggested as an alternative to booing. It's a pretty well accepted fact that the team and their families are aware of this site and the things that are said here. Should we refrain from negative discussion/emotion because it doesn't help the team or accomplish anything? I guess the first thing to go should be the vent thread -- that thing probably hurts the feelings of many players and their families.

 

In some ways, the stuff that goes on here might be worse than booing. Booing is just a generalized sound of mass dissatisfaction. Things on this board target specific players and sometimes get personal.

 

So, I ask -- for anybody who has posted a negative thought about the Brewers and/or a player here on Brewerfan.net -- what are you trying to accomplish? Does your negative rhetoric help the team? If not, I suggest you re-think your self appointed position as a superior fan than paying customers who boo.

[biedergb]

I went back and looked at the Brewers schedule this year. They were a phenomenal team at home early on, and then they started to play pretty poorly. It seems the turning point was July 6th. The team had its high water mark at 28-13. Since then they have been 16-18 including two series sweeps. On the flip side, at that time they were 21-26 on the road, and have been an amazing 18-7 on the road since.

 

That date coincides with the trade for CC. Obviously that trade brought a lot of fans to the park and a lot of pressure to the team. In this perspective you can see that the team may have been playing tighter at home because of their youth, higher and more vocal fan turnout, and the inherent pressure that adding a Cy Young candidate to your pitching staff brings. And as a result of that the team may have falter, and this has lead to the fans to voice their frustration. I'm not condoning or condemning what Corey Hart said, or what the fans are doing with booing. Personally, I think that fans can and should show their emotions both good and bad, but I can see how players may not respond how we hope or expect to the emotions. But I thought that it was interesting that since "the trade" the team really has been so good on the road, and a big disappointment at home.

[lcbj68c]

Well Said Doug Jones and even that in spite of the fact that I am not a boo-bird myself. I guess the only difference being that it is the players and their wives choice to continue to read, rather than just leave the computer off. Booing forces them to weigh the effect it has on their esteem and performance.

[DougJones43]

I guess the only difference being that it is the players and their wives choice to continue to read, rather than just leave the computer off.

That still doesn't address the fundamental question though -- what positive impact does it have on the team? That is the the 'burden of proof' question that is continually posed to the boo-birds...

[biedergb]

So, I ask -- for anybody who has posted a negative thought about the Brewers and/or a player here on Brewerfan.net -- what are you trying to accomplish? Does your negative rhetoric help the team? If not, I suggest you re-think your self appointed position as a superior fan than paying customers who boo.

I don't know what it does to the team, but I know it helps me out. Venting frustration on the message boards with people who are like me and obviously emotionally vested in the team (for better or worse) is more therapeutic than yelling at a TV, or trying to explain why I'm in a bad mood to wife or my daughter. And the written rhetoric is not unlike what the media does when they write columns about the team, questioning moves or intentions of players/management. I don't live in Milwaukee, and have never been much of a boo-er at sports events, but I don't condemn people who do. I'm just pointing out that I don't think you can equate what people do at the event, to what is written in forums or blogs.

[DougJones43]

I don't know what it does to the team, but I know it helps me out. Venting frustration on the message boards with people who are like me and obviously emotionally vested in the team (for better or worse)...

I would imagine that is a similar reason to why people boo. It seems hypocritical (and I'm not targeting you specifically, as you said you do not condemn those who boo) to say that one form of venting is okay, and one is not. Granted, one may be more "refined", but it's negativism nevertheless, and neither one really does anything positive for the team. They are each an outlet for fans who care.

[Brian the Automator]

The same could be said about posting on message boards, which a poster earlier suggested as an alternative to booing. It's a pretty well accepted fact that the team and their families are aware of this site and the things that are said here. Should we refrain from negative discussion/emotion because it doesn't help the team or accomplish anything? I guess the first thing to go should be the vent thread -- that thing probably hurts the feelings of many players and their families.

 

In some ways, the stuff that goes on here might be worse than booing. Booing is just a generalized sound of mass dissatisfaction. Things on this board target specific players and sometimes get personal.

 

So, I ask -- for anybody who has posted a negative thought about the Brewers and/or a player here on Brewerfan.net -- what are you trying to accomplish? Does your negative rhetoric help the team? If not, I suggest you re-think your self appointed position as a superior fan than paying customers who boo.

The huge difference here is that we're having a conversation here and a sharing of ideas, not a one-way conduit of disapproval being showered down simultaneously by thousands of people.

[biedergb]

Retracted. Thanks for clarifying.

[giffted1]

The same could be said about posting on message boards, which a poster earlier suggested as an alternative to booing. It's a pretty well accepted fact that the team and their families are aware of this site and the things that are said here. Should we refrain from negative discussion/emotion because it doesn't help the team or accomplish anything? I guess the first thing to go should be the vent thread -- that thing probably hurts the feelings of many players and their families.

That's not a fair comparison. If the players do check out BF.net and don't like what they see, they can easily avoid it. Booing on the other hand can't be avoided. Also, I'm sure its easier for players to blow off criticism from some 3000 internet geeks than from a stadium full of booing fans.

[iluvlamp]

Maybe the booing has been extreme. Was losing my voice on a game winning hit extreme? Or is that just expected? The players expect cheers and not boos, even when they are choking. I have booed Gagne twice and he deserved it. Poor Corey and the Brewers. Fans just have not supported them enough. WE suck. WE are the problem. The fans make them embarrass themselves and choke.

 

I hope they get to the playoffs. I want them to make the playoffs. I pray for it. If they don't? I will still drag my sorry ass to the park to watch men who only want cheers and can't handle the boos.

 

Start playing better.

[Brian the Automator]

Maybe the booing has been extreme. Was losing my voice on a game winning hit extreme? Or is that just expected? The players expect cheers and not boos, even when they are choking. I have booed Gagne twice and he deserved it. Poor Corey and the Brewers. Fans just have not supported them enough. WE suck. WE are the problem. The fans make them embarrass themselves and choke.

Look at it this way. The Brewers have a hard enough time signing decent players. Most people here agree that Corey's one of the players the Brewers should lock up to buy out a FA year or two... Is he going to be more likely to sign a deal if he feels that the fans are supportive, or if they're not supportive?

 

I can understand that point of view that some players might be too thin-skinned. I disagree with it, but it's certainly a valid viewpoint. That doesn't matter, though. What matters is the players' perceptions of it. When it comes to feeling supported, perception is reality, no matter how you slice it. Again, people certainly have the right to boo, but when we here players coming out and feel like it's getting to them psychologically, it's fairly obvious to me that it IS having an impact, even if we feel it shouldn't.

[1992casey]

I wouldn't care so much if it just wasn't so excessive. Strike out? Booed. Coming into pitch? Booed. Give up a run, double booed.

 

Exactly. Fans are booing way beyond the call of duty. It's almost as if they don't realize that a batter "failing" over 66% of the time and a pitcher "failing" nearly 34% of the time is par for the course--and that some of those "failures" being lumped together is part of the program.

 

Booing the home team should be reserved for times that cumulative hideousness is taken to the extreme. If the Brewers give up five walks, six earned runs, and go through three pitching changes in an inning, go ahead and boo. But booing what's basically routine and booing a player immediately when he takes the mound makes it embarrassing to refer to these people as fellow fans.

 

I think there's way too much booing of the visiting team at Miller Park, too. Booing former Brewers just because they're former Brewers? Come on. On the other side of the coin, there are a few select cases where booing is fine: booing the ump, booing the opponent for intentionally walking the home team's batter, booing the manager for removing a successful starting pitcher (even if you know he's right http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif).

 

Specifically, regarding Corey Hart, I'm betting he said what he said because Haudricourt asked him the question. If that's the case, maybe we should be admiring his candidness. I don't think we should be assuming that he ran to Tom with the purpose of whining. Also, I think one always has to assume that when a quote is published, part of it has been cut out. The press tends to do that.

 

As far as the message board comparison goes, one thing Brewerfan.net and Miller Park have in common is that they're not meant to be places to go for the purpose of venting frustration.

[iluvlamp]

Brian. They have had a hard time signing players because the cash wasn't there until recently. They have only begun signing high priced players. Corey chose not to sign a contract here last year. Why would booing make it worse? Brewers were booed plenty last year and Braun signed. I remember this same conversation last year. I said maybe it was extreme this year. Many other fans boo more hardily than us. Many other fans expect greatness. This fan base may be green. I admit that. But they should sack up. Blaming the fans for their crappy performance is just junk. 20-8(or around that record) in August they were kicking ass and I didn't hear them saying the fans were not supportive.

 

We have been supportive all year. Most sellouts ever. Most fans ever. If they can't take it...sigh...

 

bottom line this sucks

[Brian the Automator]

Brian. They have had a hard time signing players because the cash wasn't there until recently. They have only begun signing high priced players. Corey chose not to sign a contract here last year. Why would booing make it worse? Brewers were booed plenty last year and Braun signed. I remember this same conversation last year. I said maybe it was extreme this year. Many other fans boo more hardily than us. Many other fans expect greatness. This fan base may be green. I admit that. But they should sack up. Blaming the fans for their crappy performance is just junk. 20-8(or around that record) in August they were kicking ass and I didn't hear them saying the fans were not supportive.

 

We have been supportive all year. Most sellouts ever. Most fans ever. If they can't take it...sigh...

 

bottom line this sucks

Maybe Braun's more thick-skinned than Hart. Dunno. Yeah, maybe they should "sack up", but simply stating that's the case doesn't make it so. Again, to them, perception is reality.

 

The main point is that there is no good outcome that comes of booing, while we know that there is a negative outcome of booing, apparently... right or wrong. So why do it?

[BrewCrewForever]

I refuse to boo. If people want to do it, I guess that is their right. But I don't believe it is right. Especially booing a guy like Gagne when he comes in before he even throws a pitch.

[jason21nl]

So why do it? maybe because thats the only way a fan can voice their displeasure at a ball game. Fans cheer when they are happy, and boo when they are upset. Booing a guy coming into a ball game is not cool, booing the pitcher throwing over to first is stupid. but booing bad play I think is acceptable if people want to do it. This booing topic comes up more than princes weight and thats a lot.

[iluvlamp]

Maybe Braun's more thick-skinned than Hart. Dunno. Yeah, maybe they should "sack up", but simply stating that's the case doesn't make it so. Again, to them, perception is reality.

 

The main point is that there is no good outcome that comes of booing, while we know that there is a negative outcome of booing, apparently... right or wrong. So why do it?

Seems to me some players and teams thrive on proving their fans wrong. Whining will not help. Going on and on about how the fans don't "appreciate us" does not sell, especially, when this team has been more supported than any team in club history. Maybe I just wish they could see the forest and not the trees. Most fans do. Why the hell is this even a topic? That is sad in itself!

[Brian the Automator]

Seems to me some players and teams thrive on proving their fans wrong. Whining will not help. Going on and on about how the fans don't "appreciate us" does not sell, especially, when this team has been more supported than any team in club history. Maybe I just wish they could see the forest and not the trees. Most fans do. Why the hell is this even a topic? That is sad in itself!

Maybe some players DO thrive on proving their fans wrong, but given the quotes we've seen from our players, we know that this isn't the case. I think some people, including yourself, are arguing that it SHOULDN'T be a problem. I agree to some extent. But it is, and therefore what we as fans have the power to do is not make it worse.

[iluvlamp]

I will agree with Jason and many others....booing a player while entering the game is junk.

[bigredrobbo]

Anyone who boos for the team they "support" for anything other than lack of effort is an idiot. No, that's not entirely true.

 

If it's at Miller Park they are probably a drunken idiot.

 

They say you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I'd suggest that we'd see better results with encouragement rather than derision.

[iluvlamp]

You probably mean players Brian. I get your point. I am at a state of complete frustration. Maybe the players could do well to just say screw the fans. That would make me happy. Whatever it takes.

[logan82]

They have had a hard time signing players because the cash wasn't there until recently. They have only begun signing high priced players. Corey chose not to sign a contract here last year.

 

We probably are never going to be able to outbid anybody despite our increased payroll. We have to hope we can offer comparable money and make Milwaukee desirable to play in. Hart more than likely chose not to sign a contract because he was so close to arbitration. Souring him on signing a long term contract is the last thing we need right now.

[trwi7]

Souring him on signing a long term contract is the last thing we need right now.

 

If he's going to play like he has this year do we really want him here long term?

[TooLiveBrew]

Maybe the players could do well to just say screw the fans. That would make me happy. Whatever it takes.

 

I hope they have, at least on some level. I know there have been a lot of nice plays this season at MP where I feel like the player(s) must feel a bit like, 'Oh, you're cheering me now, huh?' There have been a lot of fickle fans of late.