Home Field Disadvantage

[jeffy]

Like the man said, "It's Big Boy Time" -- sac up.

 

If the team would bunt more, the fans would be happier?

Actually that seems to be the consensus on that other Brewers message board http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/29.gif.

 

Most recently, it seems that they could have bunted their way to 3-4 more runs just last night.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It's simply the players starting to look for excuses, and a fanbase that's absolutely dying for a winner and stepping toward the ledge during what appears to be another potential September meltdown. I think the whole "all in" mentality Brewers' brass coined earlier this summer has alot to do with it, too. Fans realize that the organization is in win-now stage, and squandering this chance could really set the team back. Watching what appears to be the entire roster slump and press at the absolute worst time is definitely a panic-inducer.

 

Somehow in all this talk about the negative Brewer fans, the players managed to forget the game where Turnbow received a standing ovation and encouragement when he came in to try and save a game earlier this season against the Phillies. He was struggling mightily before and after that, but the fans were still pulling for him. They also forget all the standing ovations given during innings that could produce a rally - fans got behind whoever was at the plate - the boos did come out after many opportunities to score were squandered. Gagne has been given especially rough treatment, then again he's basically stolen 10 million bucks for his season-long poor performance, and he started the year off with a bang by being in the Mitchell report.

 

There are always going to be the drunken fools who spend the entire game ragging on players for no good reason - that happens in every baseball city. The booing at home is more general frustration boiling over for a fanbase that probably wants the postseason too much, and that has unrealistic expectations for their team to win 90% of the time. Had the Brewers gone 7-3 on that last homestand instead of 3-7, I'm guessing the boobirds wouldn't have been as significant.

[secondsith]

You seriously think they need to be told they're not playing up to their potential? Right, if Gagne wasn't booed so much this year, he'd probably think he was having a great season.

 

No, I'm sure they hear it from the management before they hear it from the fans (at least I hope they do). But why not voice your displeasure or need for change? Fans pay too much money to put up with a streak of lousy performances by big money players. Plus, voicing displeasure on a vent thread does not relay in any way, to the players or management, that you are upset with their performance/decisions or lack there of.

[pretendastronaut]

Can someone show me where Corey is blaming the fans for their poor play and using it as an excuse for losing? So many people have repeated that idea in this thread, and that's not what he even said. This is how Corey will get booed when he gets home, because people are making the comments into an "insult" at that fans.

 

Anyone who thinks players need to be more mentally tough if they can't take 20,000 - 30,0000 people (how people keep calling that a "few" is beyond me) booing them, needs to maybe examine their own mental toughness for needing to boo someone for being human. As so many people preach about the players hitting homeruns, act like you've been there before.

 

I wouldn't care so much if it just wasn't so excessive. Strike out? Booed. Coming into picth? Booed. Give up a run, double booed. I actually wondered during the series with the Reds if Gagne was muttering about the fans to himself. He came in, got booed heavily for even coming in, and he gets out the inning with 2ks and he's getting cheered. As he walked off he was muttering to himself, and I wondered if it was about the fans who booed the sight of him, but loved him now that he got 2ks. Some people might see that as "support" but that's a pretty lame understanding of support.

[GormanHarvey]

I find it interesting that the guy complaining to the media about the team getting booed during a horrible homestand is the same guy that in spite of a batting average around .285-.290 has an OBP of around .315, the same guy that had a chance to do something big in the 8th inning last night with 2 guys on rolls over on the 1st pitch he see's and taps it to 3rd to end the inning, the same guy that received some 8 million votes from us terrible fans to get him into the All Star game, and the same guy that in spite of playing in one of the smallest markets in MLB has fans that care enough about the team to purchase 3 million tickets.

 

If he thinks the Philly fans are soo grand, I would love to see him go play there and see how he feels about them after a year of carrying an OBP of .315. I'm sure they would treat him much more warmly than in Milwaukee.

 

And if us Milwaukee fans are so unclassy, why is that both Randy Johnson and Chris Young were flattered by the classiness shown to them by the road fans at MP when they put up outstaning performances against our Brewers?

 

I'm an no big proponent of booing, but I would say their play of late doesn't deserve much better and that Corey Hart's comments were off base and unneccessary at best.

[istanbultaye]

I personally think that the word 'boo' should be on the FCC list. I think there's Brewer's 'fans' who would boo at their own child if they made an error in little league. I think a lot of 'fans' are mentally weak.

 

The Brewers just went four months straight with just one or maybe it was two seperate bad weeks (under .500 weeks). And now, though the timing isn't great, they have a bad two weeks and people are downright angry about it? I don't get people who would get downright angry and obnoxious over this. If it's a matter of 'I paid my money and they lost!' etc., well then, don't pay, and don't go. It's cheaper to sit at home and watch it on TV and you can boo all you want, and they don't even stop serving beer after the 7th inning. Of course, if you do that, your S.O. may just get ticked at you for being drunk and obnoxious and beat you up.

[brewers19]

The team got booed more at their home park than in an opposing city, let alone one with a reputation for merciless fans. That's pretty pathetic, and frankly I can't blame Hart (or the rest of the team) for not being happy about it. On top of it, the fans not only feel justified and entitled to their booing, they blame it on the players.

[giffted1]

No, I'm sure they hear it from the management before they hear it from the fans (at least I hope they do). But why not voice your displeasure or need for change?

Because booing can have a negative impact on a players confidence, which in turn can have a negative impact on that player's performance and the team as a whole.

Fans pay too much money to put up with a streak of lousy performances by big money players.

No one is forcing fans to pay anything. If a fan can't control their emotions during something a common as a slump or bad play, maybe their money would be better spent.

Plus, voicing displeasure on a vent thread does not relay in any way, to the players or management, that you are upset with their performance/decisions or lack there of.

Again, I'm sure players would realize that fans don't like blown saves and errors with or without the boos.

[bucks2281]

What I hate more than anything is the booing of the intentional walk:

a.) You get a free runner!

b.) Can the other team try their best to win the game, too?

 

I'm not a booer myself -- I'd prefer to bite my fingernails. It doesn't make me feel better. However, I did shout "you suck" in the direction of Rickie Weeks on Tuesday night. That's about as vocal as I'll get. I do wish, however, that our fans would grasp a better understanding of the game. Sometimes blown saves happen -- they feel terrible, but that's the way baseball works. It was alluded to earlier in the thread that our fanbase boos because we're so unconditioned to any type of success. We're just a doomy and gloomy bunch, waiting for the worst to happen. Once we've tasted a playoff game or two, I think the booing will stop. During the playoffs (if it should happen), the drunks won't be around, so I don't think we'll hear any booing. If this team is successful, this city will fully embrace its players; not like Boston, which still wants Gagne's blood, even though their team won the whole thing -- that's true classlessness. If you visited Fenway Park in May, you know what I mean.

 

As for Corey's comments, they were unnecessary. It bothers me -- I wish they would toughen up, and not let the booing bother them. If you make the postseason, we promise we'll lighten up a bit and embrace all of you!

[TooLiveBrew]

I guess this is just what happens when bandwagon fans, longtime frustration, and barrels of beer combine.

 

I think the issue might not be any more complex than this. The one thing I'd mix in as well is that arrogant sense of entitlement many fans possess. The 'well who voted his butt into the ASG?' line falls flat for me... imo that was at least every bit as much for the fans' sense of fulfillment and ego-stroking as it was for Corey.

 

 

Some have said that Corey Hart is acting like a 5-year-old. I think he made some very gutsy and mature comments that most of the team has been thinking but won't say. The fans are the ones acting like children. They are fine and content for the most part, but the moment they don't get what they want, they throw a temper tantrum.

 

Amen to that. I'm glad to hear Hart speak up in a very diplomatic manner. When Prince tried his style last season ('The fans haven't earned the right to boo' -- paraphrasing), it understandably didn't work. I agree that it's time for a PSA from Mark A. & Doug Melvin. Those are the two guys that could make a difference, well maybe Sabathia too, strangely enough (since he's been a Brewer for such a short time).

 

 

I don't understand why anyone thinks booing is likely to improve the performance on the field...like it will motivate a player to do better. I think it's at least as likely to make the players think, to heck with these guys [to put it politely]...I'm getting paid, these fans don't deserve a winning team, why should I bust my butt for them. And not just the guy getting booed, either.

 

Meanwhile, that moral superiority Brewers fans seem to want to claim over supposedly boorish and classless Cubs fans looks a bit more tenuous.

 

Well said. It's been disgusting to see the conduct of many fellow Brewers fans lately. The notion that it's the players' faults... 'Hey I'd boo you if you didn't SUCK!!1 LOL!!!!!!' ... is just childish. Nothing more or less to it imo. The booing of our own players is all the ugly 'I want I want I want I want I want' stuff that most people are raised to avoid. You want a player that never frustrates or disappoints? Me too!

I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT!

 

 

EDIT: Just wanted to say that I agree with Albert Haynseworth's (NFL dude) comments on mental toughness. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't think that at this point in the season, Corey Hart was not 100% justified in speaking his piece.

[JJHardy7]

EDIT: Just wanted to say that I agree with Albert Haynseworth's (NFL dude) comments on mental toughness. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't think that at this point in the season, Corey Hart was not 100% justified in speaking his piece.

 

I don't know if he was justified or not. I don't like the booing, but I think more at the heart of this might be this is the first/second time a lot of these young guys are in this situation and they've never been booed before. Trust me, nobody cares enough about the teams in Huntsville or Nashville to come anywhere close to booing the team. Most are there for entertainment and if a home run is hit the place goes 'nuts', but besides that it's a pretty laidback fan base. Booing a home player is not good. I think you have fans who have waited 26 years vs. some guys who have never been booed or on a team that was booed before in their life.

 

I think the booing is a moot point. I don't think it's causing the team to lose, but it's not helping them win. The Brewers can stop the booing by winning and hopefully there won't be threads like this the rest of the season. Let's not forget also that the Brewers are 'all in' and I think some fans fear they won't see this team in this position for awhile. Let's hope they play good baseball so the bandwagon fans don't boo. I do think some of Hart's comments were out of frustration from losing so if they win that frustration will be gone.

[Fatter than Joey]

Like the man said, "It's Big Boy Time" -- sac up.

 

If the team would bunt more, the fans would be happier?

I have no idea... I hate booing, I think it is for dipwads. With regard to "Big Boy Time", here is what Corey Hart said:

 

A guy makes an error, a guy strikes out and you hear your home town booing you. It makes you ready to get out of there and go somewhere else for awhile. I think we're all looser here

By Hart's own admission, they are playing tight at home... It's September, we are in the pennant race, fan's emotions and expectations are going to be through the roof. Part of the reason Hart is going to be a very rich man, is that he will be able to hit MLB pitching with 40,000 people watching and millions watching at home. If the Brewers are tightening up now... just wait until the freakin' Cubs come to town... it's sort of scary.

 

I guess I expect my team to play loose regardless of the booing, and my manager to keep the team loose through the end of the year. Why fans boo their own players is beyond me, I would hope the Brewers can get past it.

Meanwhile, that moral superiority Brewers fans seem to want to claim over supposedly boorish and classless Cubs fans looks a bit more tenuous.

I agree 100% with this.

[ecjimg]

I think you only have to ask one question: is booing going to help a player out? Is it going to make him concentrate more on that throw to first, or hit his spot on the mound, or make better contact at the plate, or run faster or harder into second?

 

Any athlete (or anyone with half a brain) will tell you the answer is no. Athletes put a ridiculous amount of pressure on themselves to succeed. They feel pressure from their coaches and owners and GM and even their teammates. Why, as a fan, would you see fit to add to that?

 

Booing doesn't help a player. So why, if you want to see them succeed, would you do it?

Help a player out??? I dont care if Bill Hall ever has another at bat in a Brewers uniform. I think my booing comes from Neds idiotic decisions (like having Hall bat vs. RHP. I dont care if Ricky Weeks goes down to the minor leagues to learn how to hit, field ground balls and turn the double play. He has already caused this supposed contending team enough wins. If Ned cant resist the urge to use Gagne in the 8th with a 1 run lead, Id rather see Gagne go away for good. No, I never boo hoping that I'll encourage the players to succeed. Theyve already proved that they cant. And no, I dont drink at Brewers games.

In 82, when Randy Lerch played like these guys (Gagne, Weeks, Hall) do, they got rid of him! Suuuure, the Brewers "are going fo it". Not with all that has gone wrong and is continuing to go wrong. I didnt boo (much) last year....except when Mench batted vs RHP and Jenkins batted vs LHP. But it made me mad every time Ned looked into the camera and said "We're still in first place". Now the popular comment on this board is, we are still 20 games over .500. If they make the playoffs, us boo-ers will be wrong. Its not lookin so good. Boooooooo! I expected more from this team. And so should eveyone else. The team is an entertainment product that they put out there. Yeh, I can choose to not support it or pay my ticket. But dont bill this team as a contender and then play AAA ball. What other contending team would play Hall/Counsel over who they have?? How about Weeks? What is he worth this winter in the trade market?? Im glad the Boo's have caught the ear of the players, media and no doubt management. Sure I dont want Milwaukee to be labeled as a bad place to play. This fan base wont settle for more of the same year after year after year after year. It worked for Wendy Selig and gang, but those days are over. Play major league ball, make average plays, be at least average at your position and the boo's will go away.

[Fatter than Joey]

Brewers Sept. theme song?

 

[SeriesFinale]

You know, I've never actually SEEN the "Tighten Up" before today (looks like you have to be pretty loose to me), so something good came out of this thread.

 

Of course, the Drells are from Houston, Texas, so they probably wish to encourage furthering Brewer tightening-up.

 

NOW MAKE IT MELLOW!

[SoCalBrewfan]

Ah, I think you missed my 'sac' up joke. Like a sac-rifice, you know. Or is it a pun? Just a very little joke, really. It's ok to miss it. I'm not hurt at all. Just please please don't boo.

 

While I agree that major leaguers ought to have the mental toughness to overcome whatever challenges they face, hostile crowds included, I know that I'd get ticked off at the fans for the type of booing that has been described.

 

It certainly does suggest that those who have observed that the team seems flat and tight are right on the mark. These guys are looking over their shoulder in a big way, and they aren't playing like themselves.

[nate82]

A lot of the pot calling the kettle black in this thread.

[bucksandy34]

I don't really care for booing, and I am in the camp of those who have been somewhat embarrassed at times to be at a game when the fans boo so loudly. If a player isn't putting forth very good effort (i.e. Johnny Estrada), I think booing is warranted, but when a pitcher gets booed for taking a guy to a 2-0 count, I don't think that's the place for booing. I completely agree that if players hear tens of thousands of people booing their lungs out (for often weak reasons) they would be inclined to either try too hard or get upset, and I can't really blame the players for that. In regards to Corey Hart's comments, I really don't see much of a problem. I don't see any whining or calling the fans bad. He even says they have reason to be frustrated. It's not as if he went to the reporter to complain, either. He was (presumably) asked a question, and this was his answer. We don't know the context of what made him say this, so I don't think we have much of a reason to be upset with him. If anything, I think the anger should be directed at TH for reporting these comments that seem to make fans so upset.

[Fatter than Joey]

Ah, I think you missed my 'sac' up joke. Like a sac-rifice, you know. Or is it a pun? Just a very little joke, really. It's ok to miss it. I'm not hurt at all. Just please please don't boo.

 

I totally missed it -- in fact I Bill Hall'd it... Good one -- Way over my head http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

It certainly does suggest that those who have observed that the team seems flat and tight are right on the mark. These guys are looking over their shoulder in a big way, and they aren't playing like themselves.

 

Yeah, this is what ultimately concerns me, more than the booing.

[rluzinski]

I've always wondered this... How can you tell when a player is playing flat or right or without confidence, as opposed of just playing bad? If there are some visual clues I'm missing, I'd appreciate someone pointing them out to me.

[nate82]

I've always wondered this... How can you tell when a player is playing flat or right or without confidence, as opposed of just playing bad? If there are some visual clues I'm missing, I'd appreciate someone pointing them out to me.

All of them define playing bad. Well except maybe the playing without confidence I never really get that one at all when anyone says that.

[rluzinski]

No, but it can't just be playing bad. It's attempting to explain WHY they are playing bad. There has to be SOMETHING I'm missing!

[Brian the Automator]

Can someone just simply tell me what positive impact booing your team at home has? I hear a lot of things like "it's my right" and "they deserve it", but what are you actually trying to do here?

[SeriesFinale]

Can someone just simply tell me what positive impact booing your team at home has? I hear a lot of things like "it's my right" and "they deserve it", but what are you actually trying to do here?

Trying to let them know it's not acceptable play, duh! This team with one of the best Brewers records ever is no better than a AAA team. I paid my money, I'm owed a win and perfect play!

[mkm13]

I can see why Corey would be frustrated but you can't take it to the media. I am an engineer and I hear complaints often during construction projects (that is part of life when dealing with people on a daily basis). In life, nomatter what you do, there are certain expectations people will hold (if they are fair or not it really doesnt matter). As a professional, you can't just be calling them out publically. You just can't do that and be successful long term. The guy makes a lot of money playing a sport. He is able to do it because of people paying to watch it. Essentially, the fans are his clients, and he just called them out. A lot of their expectations may be unreasonable, but deal with it and don't take it to the media.