How many millions has Fielder cost himself in the last month?

[BrewCrewForever]

I for sure don't think he will get the 10 mill he wants like Howard got.

[Baldkin]

when is the last time he has gotten a clutch hit in a big situation (e.g. not down 8-1 or up 6-0).

He had the only RBI in Sheets 1-0 win over Peavy. Thats also his only XBH in 3 weeks (I think)

[rluzinski]

He had the only RBI in Sheets 1-0 win over Peavy.

 

Yeh, but that was like 4 days ago!

[RockCoCougars]

I don't really consider an RBI double in the 3rd inning of a 0-0 game to be a clutch hit, but in any case, I just looked and Fielder is hitting .233 this year with RISP, .180 with RISP and two outs. Not good.

[rluzinski]

but in any case, I just looked and Fielder is hitting .233 this year with RISP, .180 with RISP and two outs. Not good.

 

By your definition, most of those AB really weren't clutch situations anyway. What, only walk off hits?

 

Obviously, everyone is free to define clutch in their own way. If I'm just trying to measure the impact of a batter's performance relative to the chance of his team winning, I just use WPA:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/...?team=Brewers&season=2008

 

Overall this year, he's done well according to that metric.

[TheCrew07]

Everyone reacts differently to putting on weight, especially as they approach "obese". There's literally a ton of information on web about the negative effectrs of being overweight, it's been very well documented. On the flip side there have been plenty of fat guys that had good/great MLB careers. In Prince's case I'm not sure how we'd quantify a loss of offensive production due to putting on weight in the course of one off season, though I think that's a feasible notion. It could also just be a 1 year statistical anomoly, I'm not willing to commit to any one particular reason for his slide at this time, there are simply too many factors involved yet at this point. I still lean towards his approach at the plate, especially his tendancy to overswing and fall over home plate, that's just not something I remember him doing so frequently last year. I do think the one area where I've noticed a slide in perormance that I'd attribute to his weight gain is his defensive issue, like how he seems to turn force outs into tags way too often at 1B, at least in my opinion, aside from digging balls which he was never good at.

 

I think if he has a similar season next year without noticably losing weight we can start to draw some conclusions on this subject, but again there are just too many other factors to consider at this point.

[kramnoj]

I just looked and Fielder is hitting .233 this year with RISP, .180 with RISP and two outs. Not good.

 

His OBP with RISP is .374 and .414 with RISP and two outs. Are you ignoring that, or just don't think that Prince should be walking in those situations?

[AdvantageSchneider]

Can anyone think of other baseball players that ate their way out of the league? I'm having a hard time coming up with some. Andruw Jones appears to be doing that right now, although I think he has other problems too.

 

Tony Gwynn when he first came up stole a lot of bases. He got really fat and stopped stealing bases but still hit .300+. So I don't know if gaining weight is going to hurt a player's offensive production. John Kruk was another fat dude and it didn't seem to hurt him. Matt Stairs looks like a beer league softball player and he's still crushing RH pitching.

 

I think it hurts his already poor defense, but I could see him bouncing back next year. Whether that's with the Brewers or not remains to be seen.

[ILuvDaBush]

The only reason Howard got $10mil was because the Phils low-balled him, which, as evidenced by many on this board, could easily come to pass with Prince. Thus, proclaiming as fact that he won't get $10mil while saying you would only give him $5-6mil may in fact lead him to get the $10mil. If we offered 5 and he wanted 10, which figure is "more fair" for the youngest player to hit 50 HR's and whose established level of power production has a floor of 30-35?

[sheethead]

ILuvDaBush[/b]]The only reason Howard got $10mil was because the Phils low-balled him, which, as evidenced by many on this board, could easily come to pass with Prince. Thus, proclaiming as fact that he won't get $10mil while saying you would only give him $5-6mil may in fact lead him to get the $10mil. If we offered 5 and he wanted 10, which figure is "more fair" for the youngest player to hit 50 HR's and whose established level of power production has a floor of 30-35?

Whose defense is well below average and whose dropoff from a "breakout" year was dramatic and came so quickly? 5 million is almost overpaying, and if an arbitrator would give Prince 10 mil over 5 mil, there is something wrong with the system. Breaking bats at home plate, slamming teammates in the face, and throwing tantrums in the dugout (Prince has a lot of maturing to do) do not spell a $10 million man to me. But maybe in the eyes of an arbitrator, 50 home runs a year ago does? I guess its possible.

[MJLiverock]

I just looked and Fielder is hitting .233 this year with RISP, .180 with RISP and two outs. Not good.

 

His OBP with RISP is .374 and .414 with RISP and two outs. Are you ignoring that, or just don't think that Prince should be walking in those situations?

How many of those are intentional because first base is open and a righty is on the hill? The way Hart has played for the last month I don't think teams have any fear of walking Prince with a righty and facing Hart. Early in the year Hart burned those teams that chose to walk Prince to face him but not lately. It also brings up the problem of Prince being the only LH bat in the order. Prince has faced a lot of LOOGY's in any leverage situation since the other team can burn their LOOGY with no fear of another LH bat in the lineup.

[kramnoj]

How many of those are intentional because first base is open and a righty is on the hill?

 

Cameron has one IBB this year, and it came in extra innings. He could certainly have been pitched around in the situations you describe.

[joepepsi]

Why is it so hard to believe that Prince might weigh somewhere close to 300 pounds? He's LISTED at 270...just look at him!

I know he's listed at 6' but that's being generous, isn't it? He looks shorter than almost every player out there. I can't imagine he'd be able to even play at 300 pounds and that short.

[RyDogg66]

Can anyone think of other baseball players that ate their way out of the league? I'm having a hard time coming up with some. Andruw Jones appears to be doing that right now, although I think he has other problems too.

 

Tony Gwynn when he first came up stole a lot of bases. He got really fat and stopped stealing bases but still hit .300+. So I don't know if gaining weight is going to hurt a player's offensive production. John Kruk was another fat dude and it didn't seem to hurt him. Matt Stairs looks like a beer league softball player and he's still crushing RH pitching.

 

I think it hurts his already poor defense, but I could see him bouncing back next year. Whether that's with the Brewers or not remains to be seen.

Mo Vaughn?

Sid Fernandez?

 

Eating your way out of the league can be hidden. Most fat guys can be productive ages 23-29, it is the 30-33 time where they start declining and it is a quick exit out of the league at that point, only many dont realize it and assume it is age, not fatness that causes that decline. While it may be age, it cant be ignored that some times if a player is thinner and takes good care of his body that he can play longer.

[MJLiverock]

How many of those are intentional because first base is open and a righty is on the hill?

 

Cameron has one IBB this year, and it came in extra innings. He could certainly have been pitched around in the situations you describe.

I guess I am not following you here. I was talking about some of those walks Fielder getting with a running in scoring position being because first base was open and a righty was on the hill and Hart not providing much protection and no other credible lefty threat in the lineup. Prince has 15 IBB's this year 4th most in the league. No way to tell how many pitch around give him nothing to hit ABs with 1st base open.

 

I don't know where the Cameron IBB comment comes from.

[joepepsi]

I miss Russell Branyan. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[logan82]

I would say looking at the huge split in OBP and Ba with RISP would indicate at the very least that teams are pitching around Prince. The low batting average to me indicates that he is swinging at bad pitches with RISP and might be better off being more selective. Of course given the sample size, it may all just be luck.

[Roscoe Chill]

For football fans out there, Denver Broncos DE Elvis Dumervil is 5'11" 260 pounds. Start your comparions there.

[fondybrewfan]

Dumervil is ripped and fast. Prince just ripped has pants. If Dumervil is 260 (Don't they usually go on the heavy side for football) than Prince is no smaller than 280. Plus Dumvervil's weight is actually good weight, whereas Prince appears to have a ton of dead weight. I dont care if Prince weighed 400 pounds so long as it helped him in his baseball ability

[JonnyLungs]

I wouldn't say his weight gain has necessarily affected his offensive production. But what about defensively?

 

I'd be curious what some of the metrics say. My eyes tell me that he's gone from terrible to absolutely brutal at first base.

[kramnoj]

Fielder this year is 23 in ZR among qualified 1B with a .800 ZR. He was 17th last year with a .813 ZR. 19th with a .804 ZR in 2006. So, yes, he has slipped, but people who study defense say that you need two years of defensive data to equal one year of offensive data (approximately).

[rluzinski]

If Fielder's weight is hindering his offensive abilities, he certainly hasn't shown it lately. He's gotten his overall numbers to a pretty respectible level:

 

.272/.371/.502/.873, 94 RBI, 32 HR

 

Amazingly, with Braun's recent free fall, they are prett even, offensively. Braun's line:

 

.287/.334/.555/.889, 98 RBI, 35 HR

 

Considering position and defensive ability, Braun has easily had the more valuable year overall but I wouldn't have guessed a month ago that Prince had any chance to catch Braun, offensively.

 

Because of my skepticism that an arbitor would properly weigh Prince's terrible defense, I think Prince will do just fine, salary-wise, next year.

[Ennder]

Luckily an arbitor probably won't realize that an OBP heavy .873 OPS is much better than a SLG heavy one.

[TooLiveBrew]

Considering position and defensive ability, Braun has easily had the more valuable year overall but I wouldn't have guessed a month ago that Prince had any chance to catch Braun, offensively.

 

I certainly did think Prince would 'catch' Braun once upon a time earlier in the summer, but to be honest the extreme late-ness of his power surge had me resigned that it just might not happen this season. I knew (strongly thought) that Prince had a power surge left in him... just wish it could've come a couple weeks ago http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[ILuvDaBush]

Better late than never.