Longterm Effects of a Brewer Collapse

[bklynbrewcrew]

I was assuming that Ned goes as well but Melvin also has to take some responsibility for this collapse.

[Ennder]

I doubt anyone is fired. Even if we have a miserable last 18 games and go 6-12 we still end up with 88 wins. I just don't see them cleaning house after an 88 Win year even if we miss the playoffs.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Ennder, exactly how many times does this team have to collapse under Ned's watch until he gets fired? 88 wins and missing the playoffs this season is completely unacceptable.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

You can choose to believe me on this or not, but I was literally born the day that Bud Selig took over the Pilots, April 1, 1970. I was too young to see much of the horrific early years of Alex Grammas. My formative years, where I acquired my love for baseball in general and the Brewers specifically, aligned exactly with the "glory years" of 78-82.

 

For better or worse, they are my team, always have been, and it hasn't been easy almost all of the time. Like others, while I was really bummed about the collapse last year, I could understand it, young, pitching wasn't really there, etc. This year WAS the year. I have been emotionally drained every game this year, and it feels like that emotional investment increases exponentially every game. Last night was horrible.

 

The effects of a collapse will be that the hard core fans will remain, probably more jaded (if that's possible with this franchise), probably more guarded and less emotionally invested. Bandwagon fans will decrease rapidly as the sting of the collapse combines with CC and Sheets going elsewhere, there just won't be anything to get excited about.

 

I will say that if Ned is not fired if they collapse, I will find it extremely hard to have any emotion over this franchise any more.

 

Finally, I'm aware that I'm at times a glass is half empty kinda guy when it comes to my sports, but I'm really struggling to see how 2008 wasn't THE window, and once Sheets and CC are gone, I can't see a scenario where they compete in the near future. Not in this division with the big spending Cubs, Cards...

 

In the end after the bluster and the frustration, I'll still be a fan, I honestly just am struggling this morning to envision how I let myself get my stomach in knots every game next year...

 

But, I know I will. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[owbc]

There will be positive effects next year no matter what. If they blow it, everyone will be upset initially, but there will be new FA signings, trades, and come April 1st, everyone is going to get excited about baseball again. Look at the Cubs--their fans have gone through the same thing for 4 times as long as us and they are more popular than ever. Next year, 2.5 million fans is already a lock, even if they go 4-14 the rest of the way.

 

Personally, I go to and watch approximately the same number of games this year that I did in 2002...and 2000...and 1998. I am way more excited about the Brewers than usual, but my love for baseball extends way beyond the Brewers. I really want the Brewers to make the playoffs, but that love for baseball always reminds me of the Brewers' flaws. They are free-swinging, they play poor defense, they fail frequently at fundamentals, they have a very inconsistent bullpen, etc. Thus, part of me believes that they don't deserve the playoffs anyway. I also see that Tampa Bay and Arizona are going through the exact same struggles that we are, so blaming Yost and Melvin is not an option for me. It's just that their flaws are coming out more now that it is crunch time.

 

That being said, I still think they will make the playoffs.

[2008 world champs]

I'll be back. I watched a team send out Tyler Houston at 3rd base. I watched Jamey Wright, Ruben Quevedo, Ben Hendrickson, Rick Helling, Ronnie Belliard, Jose Hernandez.....Wow this list is too numerous. Look at what the Minnesota Twins did this year? They lost Santana and Hunter and yet are still near the top of a division that many thought would be competitive. (Indians/Detroit are disappointing) This is the case with the Crew too...They probably will lose those key players but that is the realities of the small market...sigh..You can look at how good the Cubs, Cardinals, and Astros and Reds might be on paper but the games aren't played on paper thankfully.

 

There is still a 3 game cushion and i firmly believe that the crew will manage a way to split the philly series and go 500 against the cubs

[jhart05]

It's not going to happen, so why talk about it.

 

The Crew will be in the Playoffs this year.

[DougJones43]

It's not going to happen, so why talk about it.

http://witchdoctor.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/headinsand.jpg

[logan82]

Considering what was expected at the start of the year, I am not sure we should be saying that 88+ wins would be a disappointment. Like Russ was sating in another thread, change around which months we got our wins in and we look pretty good right now. We can't control what other teams do. 88+ wins is a good season, but still might not be good enough this year.

 

We played bad against some good teams and got swept at home a couple times. Expecting much more than a split in a 4 game series against any team is asking a lot.

 

I would prefer to see winning baseball, but it doesn't really matter as far as whether I watch or attend games goes.

[jhart05]

Post whatever you want DougJones43, but I still believe in this team, and still firmly believe they will be in the Playoffs.

[PeaveyFury]

I don't know how Melvin keeps his job, extending the guy who orchestrated the first collapse.

 

Melvin buys another year by firing Yost. Yost will take most of the heat, and Melvin gets another year.

[DougJones43]

Post whatever you want DougJones43, but I still believe in this team, and still firmly believe they will be in the Playoffs.

That's fine. But there's a difference between believing in the team, and factually stating that a collapse will not happen. It could happen, despite your declarations. Just denying it doesn't really change that, or add much to the discussion.

[rluzinski]

Sure, this place was a ghost town when the Brewers were 4 games under. Sure, there are a lot of fans who are only going to pay attention when the Brewers are winning. There will be some public backlash if the Crew blows it but if they start winning again next year, people wll show up and root for the team.

[bucksman4]

If this collapse does indeed happen, next year's attendance will NOT reach 3 million, that's for sure. Ned Yost will not be with this team. The lineup will have to be tweaked and a new leadoff hitter will be needed. Finally, this fan base will take a severe blow to the groin when/if they 1) fail to make the playoffs and 2) fail to resign CC or Sheets. I am not in the camp of signing either because Sheets is a walking injury bug and CC will not be worth the money he will be getting in the final 3-4 years out of his new deal. But for the short term, this team will be hard pressed to muster up winter support. And finally, Mark Attanasio would have insomnia for at least 2 weeks.

[holybannana]

I'm sure a lot of people won't show up. I'll still go to a bunch of games because I like watching baseball, getting some beers and eating some peanuts. I'm not going to get all worked up about anything win or lose. IT's a game, have fun with it. Of course I want them to win but if they lose, nothing you can do about it. I won't demand changes because the team has gotten better every year.

 

Irrational, knee jerk reactions are not what I want. I want analysis and resolution.

 

This group of people in this organization have taken a team that was the joke of all of sports for years and made them into a competitive, young, exciting team that we can be proud of and expect to compete.

 

If they win 91 games and miss the playoffs, it's hard to fire people IMO. fire people for the sake of it? This is what people want?

 

At the very most I would dump Ned and hire Frank Krembles. These guys (and the guys we're going to bringing up) have excelled under him for years.

 

Also, Brewer fans, this will not be their best year over the next 5. With the young talent they have coming up and the guys they can keep for some time, this organization is prime for years. They will be a better team in 2 or 3 years.

[FVBrewerFan]

I guess I'm in the minority, because I don't see attendance suffering that much if they collapse this year. The excitement from this year will caryy over to next year. Does that mean 3MM attendance again? That depends on how well they're playing. Brewer fans- ardant and casual alike have waited over 25 years for a winner. If they're winning and have a shot at the post season fans will continue to come out in droves all summer.

 

But there is another long term affect that hasn't been discussed. Is Mark A. more likely to go after CC or some other huge money FA to prove to the fans he's serious about winning? I do think he would be more likely to feel "he has to do something" if they collapse this year. I also believe a collapse would force them to make a move with Weeks.

 

If the Brewers make the playoffs, and the further they advance I think it's less likely Mark A would want to take any dramatic steps. But a collapse may call for pretty major changes throughout the dugout.

[JJHardy7]

I don't know if Yost gets fired if we win 88 games. I think a lot of it depends on 'how' it happens. If the team blows up and Yost is getting tossed from a ton of games, it's a no brainer. It really wouldn't bother me keeping him or firing him if we get 88 games, but if we don't get in and lose CC and Sheets this off-season expectations will be much different and a change might be exactly what is needed.

[Bring Back the Stein]

firenedyost.com would become obsolete.

[Mr QL]

Yost should be fired regardless.

 

But yea, I'll still get myself excited for the team next year not matter what happens this year just as I will the Bucks. Glutton for pain.

[holybannana]

I really don't understand why anyone thinks this team isn't going to be awesome the next few years. They were really good before the acquired CC. Sheets might be back and if he isn't, it's 1 guy, albiet a big guy. But this team was doing fine without YoGa so that more or less makes up for it.

 

This team has a lot of young talent that is going to be coming up in the coming years...

 

And fire Doug Melvin? Are you serious? Did you see how nicely he signed Ryan Braun? He built this team and appointed the excellent office staff they have.

[Eddiehitsthefoulpole]

DM stays with a collapse. I think he is still better than a lot of GMs. Ned would be the fall guy. Let's hope we make the playoffs so that this conversation becomes moot!

[Dmiles23]

This is not on the topic of this thread, but i got to thinking about this from a couple of the posts above. Does Melvin have any say in what goes on on the field? From everything I've heard, he lets Ned manage the games without interfering. Is this really the case?

 

The reason I wonder this is Melvin has obviously made some mistakes. Signing Gagne appears to be a mistake. Maybe Suppan is a mistake. Maybe .... that's really not the point of what I'm trying to get across. But Melvin has also acquired Durham and more recently Lamb. Does Melvin have any impact on how those 2 are played? I got to thinking about this because it seems kinda silly to sign Lamb for September when he is just going to get pinch hit at bats that are few and far between. He's been with the team since the 5th or 6th, and Saturday Counsell started, Sunday Hall started, yesterday Counsell started, and today Hall starts... all against righties. Lamb has had a horrible season thus far, but has shown he can play in the last couple years. Does Melvin have the authority to say "Play Lamb vs righties."? I'm not saying that's what the Brewers should be doing, but does Doug have the authority to do that? And would it be in his character to do so?

[Postseason2006]

holybannana wrote:

 

And fire Doug Melvin? Are you serious? Did you see how nicely he signed Ryan Braun? He built this team and appointed the excellent office staff they have.

Just became a Brewers fan? Jack Z and Dean Taylor are just as responsible as Melvin.

[RyDogg66]

A little part of me looks forward to going to Weekday games with 12,000 fans in attendance and Saturday night games of 20k. It wont be so crowded.

[dadofandrew]

I think Yost will get an extension if they make the playoffs and not invited back if they don't. I doubt if there's much in between.

 

Not sure about Doug. Mark A seems to be a smart guy, but he might just want a fresh opinion.