5/28/06 Brewers (Eveland) @ Phillies (Madson)

[badgerfan.tgf]

Well this one's not as tough to swallow after taking the first two of the series. Win three in Pittsburgh and it will be an outstanding road trip.

[IslandsAC]

that was one of the most frustrating innings of the year.

[Sheets4theHOF]

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I have to disagree with you Sheets4HOF, he pitched a pretty solid game.

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6 hits 1 walk and 3 hbp in 5 innings isn't solid. Three bonehead plays by the phillies saved him. He was all over the place. If the phillies played solid this game we're talking about as many as 4 more runs.

 

He doesn't have the dominating stuff to get away with getting behind in counts and giving away free bases. Until he throws quality strikes consistently he will continue to fail.

[pitchleague]

pretty generous official scoring if I do say so myself.

 

I hope Winkelsas stays around. Sounds like he did his job. Just the infielders didn't do theirs.

[Dmiles23]

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Are you serious? There is not one team in major league baseball that thinks 4 runs in 5 innings is good from their 5th starter much less their 4th.

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Well... there are 8 teams so far today whose starting pitcher has given up more than 4 runs in the first 5 innings:

 

Ryu for the Cubs gave up 6 in 1.1 innings.

Smoltz gave up 4 in 5.

Nolasco for the Marlins gave up 5 in 4 innings.

Seo for the Dodgers gave up 6 in 2.2 innings.

Rodgers for Detroit gave up 5 in 4.1 innings.

Hernandez for KC gave up 5 in .2 innings.

Taubenheim for Toronto gave up 4 in 2.1 innings.

[Dmiles23]

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Quote:How did he beat himself today?

 

 

 

Seriously? How about walking and or hitting every batter and his mother.

 

EDIT: Imagine if this team hadn't been hitting the crap out of the ball. God, put someone out there who can throw a strike.

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How many of his walks or HBP scored? And oh... they weren't hitting the crap out of the ball. Imagine if the Brewers were hitting the crap out of the ball. They'd have 55 runs by now!!

[Southwest Brewer]

Well... there are 8 teams so far today whose starting pitcher has given up more than 4 runs in the first 5 innings:

 

Ryu for the Cubs gave up 6 in 1.1 innings.

Smoltz gave up 4 in 5.

Nolasco for the Marlins gave up 5 in 4 innings.

Seo for the Dodgers gave up 6 in 2.2 innings.

Rodgers for Detroit gave up 5 in 4.1 innings.

Hernandez for KC gave up 5 in .2 innings.

Taubenheim for Toronto gave up 4 in 2.1 innings.

 

Do you think any of those 8 teams are happy?

 

Just b/c things happen on other teams doesn't mean we should be happy.

 

Eveland loaded the bases w/o a single hit one inning. That is enough to make it disappointing.

[strawbossisevil]

If he had that line against the Pirates, then I would have to agree with you, but this Philly lineup is pretty stacked. Did you see what they did to Turnbow? (Arguably our best pitcher). His first three innings were very very good. He's young, and sometimes lets things snowball. But like I said, he pitched around a jam and if it wasn't for a fluke at bat by a pitcher, he would have given up only two runs through 5. The HR by Howard doesn't bother me, he is hotter than anyone right now.

[TheCrew07]

I have to agree with Sheets, my opinion has nothing to do with him being the 4th or 7th or 30th starter. Just throw strikes, watching Eveland really reminds me of watching Jamey Wright sometimes. If you continue to give people easy bases, they will beat you. I felt much better watching Bush yesterday than listening to Eveland today. Everyone wants Eveland to be successful, just like everyone hopes Safarte and JDLR will put it together. However, rooting for someone and remaining objective about their performance are 2 very different things that sometimes people here confuse. Dana has plenty of time to figure things out, but when I watch him pitch, I think he beats himself rather than making the other team beat him. He's got the goods to be a good MLB pitcher, no doubt about that.

 

Is his line terrible? No way. That's the not point of what Sheets and I were trying to say though... the point was that we feel he's beating himself at this point in his MLB career.

[Ayt]

He's struggling like you'd expect for a 22 year old pitcher with barely any experience over AA.

[Sheets4theHOF]

Quote:

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Well... there are 8 teams so far today whose starting pitcher has given up more than 4 runs in the first 5 innings:

 

Ryu for the Cubs gave up 6 in 1.1 innings.

Smoltz gave up 4 in 5.

Nolasco for the Marlins gave up 5 in 4 innings.

Seo for the Dodgers gave up 6 in 2.2 innings.

Rodgers for Detroit gave up 5 in 4.1 innings.

Hernandez for KC gave up 5 in .2 innings.

Taubenheim for Toronto gave up 4 in 2.1 innings.

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And? So youre saying a team would be happy if their #4 posted a 7.20 era (4 run in 5 innings) for the year? If this was one outing for eveland fine. The point is this is one of his better outings era wise. He's not ready to start in the majors yet.

 

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How many of his walks or HBP scored? And oh... they weren't hitting the crap out of the ball. Imagine if the Brewers were hitting the crap out of the ball. They'd have 55 runs by now!!

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So if they don't score it doesn't matter? Pitch count going up faster, batter seeing more of your pitches doesn't matter?

[Dmiles23]

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Do you think any of those 8 teams are happy?

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No... I don't. But quality pitching doesn't grow on trees. It shows there are more teams around the league with pitching problems than the Brewers. Heck, the Yankees are having pitching problems and their payroll is a zillion dollars more than the Brewers. With all the injuries to the staff, I have been quite happy with our pitching this year. There have been times when I've wanted to pull my hair out, but it could be lots worse.

 

Eveland is our best option right now... so we're gonna have to deal with it. It just really bothers me that people rip on this guy and "if this" or "if that" and "shoulda this" and "shoulda that." He's trying his best. He's learning on the job. Those stats just show that teams are in a lot worse shape than the Brewers are.

 

What starters were traded this week? Hernandez, Williams, and Gonzalez. And for some reason I don't see any of those guys being a savior. The Brewers will have to deal with what they have, Eveland will get better, and *hopefully* in a month or so we get our injured guys back!

[Oldcity]

I don't see how anyone can be encouraged by Eveland's start today. He was totally erratic.

 

In other news, Winklesas has sounded very good. I wonder if they're on to something with him.

[JoeH33]

I'd be happy if Eveland did nothing but throw meatballs down the heart of the plate. Especially to guys like Howard, Burrell, and Abreu.

 

The guy had a decent game, give him a break.

[Dmiles23]

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So if they don't score it doesn't matter? Pitch count going up faster, batter seeing more of your pitches doesn't matter?

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Yep. If the team doesn't score, I don't care how many pitches they throw. The team with the lowest pitch count doesn't win the game. The team with the most runs does. And at this point, I'd take 5 innings of 4 run baseball from my 4th and 5th starter. Then put it in the hands of my bullpen. I have enough confidence in them that 2 times every 5 days they can go 4 innings and keep the team in the game.

[strawbossisevil]

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The guy had a decent game, give him a break.

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Exactly. He had a decent game. No one's saying he was an ace or anything. He kept us in striking distance, and if it wasn't for our offense putting up a stinker today verse a subpar pitcher, we'd be right in it which is all you can ask of a bottom of the rotation starter.

[Sheets4theHOF]

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If he had that line against the Pirates, then I would have to agree with you, but this Philly lineup is pretty stacked. Did you see what they did to Turnbow? (Arguably our best pitcher). His first three innings were very very good. He's young, and sometimes lets things snowball. But like I said, he pitched around a jam and if it wasn't for a fluke at bat by a pitcher, he would have given up only two runs through 5. The HR by Howard doesn't bother me, he is hotter than anyone right now.

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Fair point about the competition. We have yet to see a decent outing from him though. Also, his lack of control is really bothersome to me. He is a pitcher who is going to need good control because he doesn't have the stuff to get out of 4-5 jams a game.

 

I'm also not concerned about the howard dinger. The guy can hit anyway.

 

I'm not saying dana is doomed to suck, i'm saying he's not ready right now and his outings are not good and not acceptable.

[TheCrew07]

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The guy had a decent game, give him a break

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I guess that's a matter of opinion.

[Oldcity]

He hit Abreu on an 0-2 count. He hit two guys in an inning. And he gave up a two RBI double to a pitcher. I know he can improve, but he really hasn't shown any improvement since he's been up. It's possible that he just isn't ready. He's had hardly any AAA time.

[Dmiles23]

And on a side note... Pittsburgh and Houston are in extra innings again today!!

[Oswald Chesterfield Cobble]

i think all things considered it wasn't a bad outing for eveland. If he would of not given up that double to the pitcher, it would of been a decent outing. Truth be told he had bad control and made a few bad pitches that he did not get away with.

[Sheets4theHOF]

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Yep. If the team doesn't score, I don't care how many pitches they throw. The team with the lowest pitch count doesn't win the game. The team with the most runs does. And at this point, I'd take 5 innings of 4 run baseball from my 4th and 5th starter. Then put it in the hands of my bullpen. I have enough confidence in them that 2 times every 5 days they can go 4 innings and keep the team in the game.

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Ok. You take your team with two starting pitchers with ERAs over 7 and try to make the playoffs. Not to mention the fact your bullpen is toast by july. Good luck with that.

[Dmiles23]

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Ok. You take your team with two starting pitchers with ERAs over 7 and try to make the playoffs. Not to mention the fact your bullpen is toast by july. Good luck with that.

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Or... I'll take my 2 starting pitchers with 7 ERA's... and hold down the fort for 2 months of the season till my injured pitchers come back.

 

So what are you saying the Brewers should do right now? Go with a 3 man pitching staff?

[Oldcity]

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Ok. You take your team with two starting pitchers with ERAs over 7 and try to make the playoffs. Not to mention the fact your bullpen is toast by july. Good luck with that.

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Well, what would you suggest the Brewers do? They have three starters out indefinitely. There's nobody good left to pitch. There aren't many (if any) teams that go eight or nine deep in decent starting pitchers.

[DHonks]

it was more fun when Jenkins and Lee were both hitting a few weeks back. Now neither is.